"Good"Exalted Feats, "Bad" Vile feats

[silverwolfer]

Wondering what thoughts are on any good exalted feats like nymph kiss or other ones or if they are mostly just bloated bad stuff, and if any good vile feats actually exssit?

[ArcturusV]

Well, depends on your threshold of "Good", what the campaign is like, and such. I've seen some pretty good Vow of Poverty builds. I've also seen some good use of that Exalted Feat that lets you poison an Evil guy with Golden Ice. Dark Speech has a few useful uses, if you qualify for it and your DM lets you use them. I never really regretted having it the few times I did.

But the Exalted poisoning isn't good in a campaign where you just smite evil on sight anyway and have no reason to afflict someone and walk away. Though for a sneakier party in general it's not bad at all.

[Magikeeper]

There are a lot of cool vile feats - just not in the Book of Vile Darkness. Elder Evils in particular has some really nice ones like the one that grants +cha to saves for multiple rounds as an at will standard-action buff (most of them have a penalty to go with the awesome, but they are still worth looking at).

Penalty ones include benefits like immunity to mind-effecting effects, redirecting mind-effecting effects, and getting +# Vile feats to an attack/skill/check/etc as an at-will immediate action buff.

[Psyren]

There aren't many good Exalted feats... some of the better ones:

- Touch of Golden Ice: already mentioned
- Words of Creation: particularly for IC Bards
- Ranged Smite: for certain builds
- Intuitive Attack: for certain builds
- Righteous Wrath: for barbs that want to take prisoners without gimping damage output
- Vow of Nonviolence: the best vow, great for debuffers (does not stack with spell focus, but works on all kinds of abilities - vestiges, psionics, SLAs/invocations etc, and it will stack with feats that boost those.)
- Celestial Familiar: opens nice choices like Eladrin
- Exalted Companion: more restrictive than CF but can be optimized, opens nice choices like unicorns/blink dogs.

The ones in CoV unfortunately suck, so BoED is all you've got.

(Note that by RAW, VoN will stack with GREATER spell focus even though it doesn't stack with the regular kind.)

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Ancestral Relic is a good work around if you're in a game with bad loot and magic item availability. It does give you a 1 to 1 ratio pay out for bad items in good item out.

All the feats that enhance pets are decent.

Consecrate spell is decent it's free if you have 1 metamagic reducer.

Nonlethal Substitution is a fun toy to have on a spontaneous caster.

Words of Creation shows up in a lot of high op bard builds.

Deformity (Tall) Reach.

Dark Speech's ability to create hiveminds has TO applications.

The free +1 caster level to items from both words feats is interesting but falls well behind the feats in the Eberron campaign setting for item creation optimization.

Aside from the two I mentioned above I've generally assigned vile feats for free to characters that fulfilled rp requirments.

[Psyren]

FYI, not all feats in BoED are Exalted feats - Ancestral Relic for instance is actually a General feat. The table is on BoED pg. 40.

[Zack Reever]

The ancestral relic feat is a general feat, however one of it's prereqs is any good alignment. So it really doesn't matter.

[TuggyNE]

The ancestral relic feat is a general feat, however one of it's prereqs is any good alignment. So it really doesn't matter.

That does matter, since Good and Exalted Good aren't the same; also, a feat that isn't [Exalted] isn't eligible for certain bonus feat choices.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

FYI, not all feats in BoED are Exalted feats - Ancestral Relic for instance is actually a General feat. The table is on BoED pg. 40.

Bah, well aware just that one slipped through my radar.

Oh jeeze, the metamagics aren't exalted either, I was off my game last night. Must be from all that wishful thinking, hoping to get actual nice things from VoP.

[kardar233]

I'm a fan of Deformity (Madness) from Elder Evils. Sure, the -4 WIS penalty bites on some characters, but immunity to mind-affecting for two feats? Every time.

[Stront]

I am currently playing a Paladin with a 31 Charisma and heavy focus on Diplomacy. I have the following feats out of the BoED:

Nymph's Kiss: Fey regard you as fey. +2 circumstance bonus on all Charisma related checks, +1 bonus to all saving throws against spells or spell-like abilities and 1 extra skill point per level starting when you take this feat.

Resounding Blow: On crit, forces Will save based off level + charisma modifier or they cower for one round.

Quell the Profane: On crit vs. evil, forces fort save based off level + charisma modifier or they take 1d4+1 temporary strength damage.

I'm also using a Stunning Surge + Keen enchanted Relic Sword (Scimitar) acquired from Ancestral Relic feat. Seems to be working for me so far.

[Lord_Gareth]

Well, depends on your threshold of "Good", what the campaign is like, and such. I've seen some pretty good Vow of Poverty builds. I've also seen some good use of that Exalted Feat that lets you poison an Evil guy with Golden Ice. Dark Speech has a few useful uses, if you qualify for it and your DM lets you use them. I never really regretted having it the few times I did.

But the Exalted poisoning isn't good in a campaign where you just smite evil on sight anyway and have no reason to afflict someone and walk away. Though for a sneakier party in general it's not bad at all.

No, no you have not.

Anyway, Words of Creation is freakin' golden.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

FYI, not all feats in BoED are Exalted feats - Ancestral Relic for instance is actually a General feat. The table is on BoED pg. 40.



Bah, well aware just that one slipped through my radar.

Oh jeeze, the metamagics aren't exalted either, I was off my game last night. Must be from all that wishful thinking, hoping to get actual nice things from VoP.



Resounding Blow: On crit, forces Will save based off level + charisma modifier or they cower for one round.

Resounding Blow is also General, I am REDEEMED!

[Stront]

Resounding Blow is also General, I am REDEEMED!

You got me too! I didn't have my books on hand and I knew it was a prerequisite for Quell the Profane. I kind of assume since the latter was an exalted feat, the former would have been. Doh! :smalltongue:

[The Viscount]

Some vile feats are good, though not always for PCs. Vile natural attack, for example, can really mess with your day, because you want to heal it, but you can't. Violate Spell, I think it was, is even worse for the victim. Both are rather less useful to PCs. The willing deformity tree is not bad at all, but that first one is a tax that gives nearly no benefit. Tall has already been mentioned, and I second it. Teeth and Hands are both useful if you need a natural attack for whatever reason, like grafting in Yuan-ti fangs or qualifying for Soul Eater. Tongue is pretty neat. Blindsense isn't as good as blindsight, but it's still good. Parasite can be pretty nice for those not immune to that sort of thing.

[Gavinfoxx]

I regularly encourage Exalted Wild Shape when I talk about Druids...

[Kelb_Panthera]

That does matter, since Good and Exalted Good aren't the same; also, a feat that isn't [Exalted] isn't eligible for certain bonus feat choices.

Exalted feats are also supernatural in nature while general feats usually aren't. See the exalted feat header in BoED for details.

[Hiro Protagonest]

No, no you have not.

Druid works well. Then again, druid. But it does change things a bit. No utility items, but you keep your bonuses while Wild Shaped.

Totemist can also pull it off, they have soulmelds for mobility and resistances/immunities.

[Scow2]

I like Nimbus of Light and Holy Radiance... but they're probably useless outside of the ability to shine really bright. Holy Radiance damage needs to be bigger.

[Clericzilla]

Druid works well. Then again, druid. But it does change things a bit. No utility items, but you keep your bonuses while Wild Shaped.

Totemist can also pull it off, they have soulmelds for mobility and resistances/immunities.

VoP is banned in my group after I made a VoP Totemist... I wasn't aware that the other player had a VoP Monk that also wanted to go grapple.. I broke the player's view on monks at least.

I think there are some Vile feats that eventually let you get blanket immunity to mind affecting abilities... Hmm I'll need to look into the Crusader handbook again. Hmm