A cheap way to imprison "teleport at will" creature?

[Jon_Dahl]

I need to find a cost efficient way to imprison a succubus. Succubus is assumed to be helpless and at your mercy for exactly one hour. After that it will wake up and use its teleportation abilities.
We can use the following spells:
All cleric spells up to 5th-level
All wizard spells up to 4th-level
Any psionic power up to 2nd-level
All magical items available (but please remember the cost efficiency!)

Any source material can be used, but Core is preferred.

Please note: Spamming non-lethal damage is not an option, because all living creatures die at -10 hp (whether lethal or non-lethal). It's a house rule.

[Adrayll]

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Dimensional_Shackles

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Dimensional_Anchor

These come to mind.

[Jon_Dahl]

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Dimensional_Shackles

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Dimensional_Anchor

These come to mind.

Thank you Adrayll. The problem is that Dimensional Anchor has a rather short duration. Dimensional Shackles are a bit expensive.

[Adrayll]

Any more context? Do you have *just* those resources available, or do you have, by chance, any favors with some organization powerful enough to have AMF jail cells? Something like that? With just those spell levels, things are going to be a bit tricky.

[tyckspoon]

You could carefully regulate the non-lethal you apply so as to avoid killing her, but that means you need somebody standing by to tap her back into unconsciousness very regularly (and probably a good Heal check so as to determine how close she is to waking up without actually allowing her to wake.) You have access to Dimensional Anchor, and as long as she's unconscious you should be able to apply it without any interference, but that's a short-term solution and I would guess you probably need a long-term means of holding her. If you could find a way to hold her for a day, you could create a Hallow with an attached Dimensional Anchor and use that as a prison site; still expensive, but cheaper than a set of Dimensional Shackles and has the benefit of covering an area so you can hold other potential Teleporting escape risks there.

[Carth]

Dimensional lock has a days/level duration. You'd need to find a scroll of it.

[Chilingsworth]

Let's see...

If you could feeblemind her (get some scrolls of the spell, maybe? use enervation to reduce her saves before trying the scrolls) That might work, if your dm rules that the prohibition against casting spells also prevents use of spell-like abilities.

Also, this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=14702340) might offer some ideas.

[Psyren]

Shove her in a Rope Trick; she can teleport all she wants, she is in an extraplanar space and so can't escape. Then you have your familiar grab/perch on the rope - it is now considered to be "climbing the rope" - only one creature can do this at a time by RAW, so she can't leave.

However, this will only buy you a few more hours. If you cast it again while inside, to extend the duration, your DM will get to decide exactly what happens; RAW, the answer is "nothing," but that hazardous clause may be too tempting.

[ArcturusV]

Hmm. If I remember, wouldn't something like Magic Circle vs Evil/Chaos imprison a Succubus and has a duration that could be a lot easier to manage than the Dimensional Anchor alone? I seem to recall that there was a line in Magic Circles that mentioned it could be used to imprison beings and prevent their escape by any means. Including shifting planes/teleporting. Or even just mundanely walking away.

Just have to make sure that no one scuffs up your circle.

[tyckspoon]

Hmm. If I remember, wouldn't something like Magic Circle vs Evil/Chaos imprison a Succubus and has a duration that could be a lot easier to manage than the Dimensional Anchor alone? I seem to recall that there was a line in Magic Circles that mentioned it could be used to imprison beings and prevent their escape by any means. Including shifting planes/teleporting. Or even just mundanely walking away.


Only works when you use a spell to Call a creature into it- you can't just draw the Circle and drop an outsider into it as a prison. Although a standard Succubus is within the bounds of Lesser Planar Binding.. @ thread subject: If you know the Succubus's name you could attempt that. Create a diagram-bounded Magic Circle infused with a Dimensional Anchor and try to Lesser Planar Bind her into it. If you succeed, she's stuck for 24 hours/caster level. Takes a bit more than 20 minutes to do, assuming you can successfully draw the circle diagram on a Take 10.

[TuggyNE]

Please note: Spamming non-lethal damage is not an option, because all living creatures die at -10 hp (whether lethal or non-lethal). It's a house rule.

So, the only difference between lethal and non-lethal is that one of them makes you bleed out at -1 and below? :smallconfused:

[Morcleon]

So, the only difference between lethal and non-lethal is that one of them makes you bleed out at -1 and below? :smallconfused:

Wait, isn't non-lethal damage gained (ala negative levels), rather than lost...? :smallconfused:

[TuggyNE]

Wait, isn't non-lethal damage gained (ala negative levels), rather than lost...? :smallconfused:

Normally, yes. Apparently this houserule changes it, and not, as far as I can tell, in a way that makes a whole lot of sense.

A different houserule I've heard of that makes non-lethal a bit less useful, but not as crazily pointless, is to make all non-lethal crits do lethal damage, representing that even if you're holding back you can still accidentally really hurt someone. (Alternatively, they do lethal damage instead of, rather than in addition to, multiplying damage.) I'm not a big fan of those, but they'd work a lot better.

@OP: How long does delay death go for? Probably not long enough to be useful… and I assume you don't have Persist Spell, or DMM for it either.

[JeminiZero]

Since non lethal damage was considered presumably she does not have to be conscious?

In that case just summon a few allips with summon undead 4 or 5 (SpC) and drain her Wis to 0. It will put her in a coma with no natural recovery.

[Crake]

Nonlethal damage goes up, hitpoints go down. When they are equal, you're staggered (or disabled if you're at 0 hp and 0 nonlethal) and when nonlethal is higher, you're unconcious.

As to the matter at hand, I 100% support the planar binding option. It doesn't even specify that the creature needs to be extraplanar, so you can call her even if shes on the material plane. The circle lasts for 24 hours per level, as does the dimensional anchor, and theres nothing to say you cant cast the magic circle AFTER the creature is called, so you should be able to re-cast the circle every few days, followed by a follow-up dimensional anchor. Just make sure you put up that diagram, because otherwise she might break free or cast spells at you (suggesting you break the circle for example).

[Jon_Dahl]

I guess the rule is for the following reason:
A group of punks beat up an old lady. They kick and hit her for 10 minutes and reduce her to -102 hp and throw her into a ditch. No one finds her.
102 hours later she wakes up from the ditch and starts a full recovery.

The lesson is: Don't beat up people too hard.

But this is off-topic, really.

[AlanBruce]

You need her alive but unable to teleport? Get a spellthief of significant level with a punching dagger and have him prick her every minute, with the cleric healing her as necessary. Of course, this would take for the succubus to be chained, so she loses her dexterity bonuses and is thus applicable for a SA.

This idea goes out the window of course if she's at 10 hp or lower, since the SA, even if non-lethal, would kill her, unless she was convinced, given her state to allow the spell thief as a standard to steal her SLA without harm.

[Crake]

I guess the rule is for the following reason:
A group of punks beat up an old lady. They kick and hit her for 10 minutes and reduce her to -102 hp and throw her into a ditch. No one finds her.
102 hours later she wakes up from the ditch and starts a full recovery.

The lesson is: Don't beat up people too hard.

But this is off-topic, really.

102 hours later she would be dead from exposure.

[Ashtagon]

102 hours later she would be dead from exposure.

You can't die from exposure in D&D. It does non-lethal damage only.

[ahenobarbi]

Hit her with dimensional anchor, debuff (to lower saves) and give her a quest to not teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/geasLesser.htm).

[Kelb_Panthera]

You can't die from exposure in D&D. It does non-lethal damage only.

If you've got sandstorm they can die of thirst.

On topic: A scroll of forbiddance that covers one 60ft cube would cost 3150. The spell effect is permanent until dispelled (dispeller must be at least 12th level) and completely disables extradimensional travel within its area; no 'porting in, no 'porting out. She won't even be able to use her summon tan'ari ability to summon a friend into the area. Then all you've got to do is use normal methods of restraint to keep her in the affected area.

More extreme; there is a spell in ToM that permanently strips a creature of one of its special abilities. I don't recall off-hand if its a spell-like or supernatural ability that's stripped though.

[avr]

A succubus can only teleport 'self plus 50 pounds of objects only'. So attach 100 pounds of objects to her in a way that she can't drop and you're golden.

[ericgrau]

I don't think the succubus is obligated to bring the objects along regardless. The teleport spell description seems to strongly imply that this is an option.

Pay a level 15 NPC cleric 1,200 gp to dimensional lock the area for 15 days.

[Jon_Dahl]

A succubus can only teleport 'self plus 50 pounds of objects only'. So attach 100 pounds of objects to her in a way that she can't drop and you're golden.

Dear Sir/Ma'am,

That is Brilliant.

http://i.imgur.com/7YaU5.gif

There will be a lead rod glued to her abdomen using Sovereign Glue. Astounding. Thank you.

[avr]

Even with extreme body piercing? Never mind, it might well not work, you're right.

Edit - reply was to ericgrau. If the OP's OK with it, great.

[ericgrau]

You could do something surgical so that removing it would cause blood to pour out, yet somehow without killing the succubus from inserting it. But I don't think those in a fantasy setting have such knowledge.

[Kelb_Panthera]

You could do something surgical so that removing it would cause blood to pour out, yet somehow without killing the succubus from inserting it. But I don't think those in a fantasy setting have such knowledge.

The existence of flesh-grafting suggests this knowledge may not be as unknown as you suggest.

[Jon_Dahl]

Even with extreme body piercing? Never mind, it might well not work, you're right.

Edit - reply was to ericgrau. If the OP's OK with it, great.

"Sovereign Glue
If the glue is allowed to set, then attempting to separate the two bonded objects has no effect, except when universal solvent is applied to the bond. "

It's impossible to use any method to separate the two substances (flesh and lead rod). Any attempt - magical or mundane - is useless at best.

Check mate. Again, thank you avr.

[ahenobarbi]

"Sovereign Glue
If the glue is allowed to set, then attempting to separate the two bonded objects has no effect, except when universal solvent is applied to the bond. "

It's impossible to use any method to separate the two substances (flesh and lead rod). Any attempt - magical or mundane - is useless at best.

Check mate. Again, thank you avr.

Well if she is willing to sacrifice some skin it's not really a problem.

[Jon_Dahl]

Well if she is willing to sacrifice some skin it's not really a problem.

She's bound and unable to cut herself. I would say that trying to teleport without a part of your own body/flesh fails.

[ericgrau]

Well I found a solid answer if you need an alternate.

Hallow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/hallow.htm) + dimensional anchor. 5,000 gp, good for 1 year. At 2,400 gp the glue is cheaper, assuming the DM goes for it, but you can re-use the hallow for the rest of the year if needed. Teleporting nearby can help even if you're adventuring in a far away land.

[ahenobarbi]

She's bound and unable to cut herself. I would say that trying to teleport without a part of your own body/flesh fails.

She has some claws on her so she might be able to. Also Succubus isn't a object (it's a creature) so the description doesn't say it can't be separated


If the glue is allowed to set, then attempting to separate the two bonded objects has no effect, except when universal solvent is applied to the bond.

[Frozen_Feet]

Remember to glue her mouth shut, too. You don't want her trying to woo anyone.

[Frozen_Feet]

Well if she is willing to sacrifice some skin it's not really a problem.

Solution: glue lead gloves on her hands. :smalltongue:

[Qc Storm]

Keeping her locked down is nice and all, but aren't you afraid of her charming someone? Possibly into untying her and dispelling whatever prevents her teleportation?

[Jon_Dahl]

Also Succubus isn't a object (it's a creature) so the description doesn't say it can't be separated

That's a hard one. Either living creatures are immune to the effect or subjects to it. I would say that living creatures are not immune to it and I think this commonly accepted.


Keeping her locked down is nice and all, but aren't you afraid of her charming someone? Possibly into untying her and dispelling whatever prevents her teleportation?

Blindfold prevents charming. You can't charm creatures that have total concealment.

[ericgrau]

You could stick the succubus in a rope trick, then when it is almost expired knock out the succubus while you cast a new rope trick in another location. Deathwatch can verify that the succubus is unconscious, if needed.

The charm and suggestion abilities remain a problem unless you block line of effect with a solid object. Blocking sight or concealment is not enough.

[Jon_Dahl]

The charm and suggestion abilities remain a problem unless you block line of effect with a solid object. Blocking sight or concealment is not enough.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#targetorTargets

"Target or Targets

Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target."

Actually, this text came as a suprise for me too.

[Chilingsworth]

Yeah, concealment would probably help against her. gluing her mouth shut might be kind of pointless, though: succubi are telepathic.

Out of curiosity: why are you trying to trap this succubus?

[Jon_Dahl]

Out of curiosity: why are you trying to trap this succubus?

Thank you for asking.

In our game, the Boccobites are asking the PC to enter the Seven Hells and capture at least one alive devil and unlimited amount of dead devils (but only one of each type). They want to investigate why the Flight of Fiends (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rao_%28Greyhawk%29) didn't affect devils. Research should be done on dead devils and one alive devil. Due to the laws, they are not allowed to summon devils. Because of the (unfair) regulations, the Boccobites only have this option if they wish to capture devils and conduct their research ("No, you may not summon devils. Yes, you may attack Hell and capture a devil. No, you may not cooperate with a devil.")

As the DM, I need to set up a reasonable scenario for the Boccobites how to execute the plan.

It goes like this:
A Cleric 9/Wizard 3 is assigned to PCs. He plane-shifts them to Seven Hells and hides with Rope Trick. He gives the PCs some time to hunt devils. He can keep the dead corpses in that extradimensional space. He may re-cast Rope Trick, if needed.

Once a live devil has been caught, he will plane shift back to prime material plane and start a long trip back home. He is unable to teleport, but he could constantly be scried upon by a crystalball (voluntarely forgoing saves). A 9th-level wizard could teleport to him and return him and his prisoner (needs to be unconscious at the moment in order to be willing) back to their temple.

Just in case something goes wrong, the mission cleric should have a way to neutralize the devil's teleportation ability (if any). The clergy isn't willing to give him Dimensional Shackles, because he could die in Hell, hence losing the valuable item. Losing Sovereign Glue is no big loss.

[Chilingsworth]

Ok, but what do they want with a succubus, which is a demon?

(also, I thought it was the nine hells, not seven? It's the seven heavens.)

[Jon_Dahl]

Well, it's because I'm confusing erinyes with succubi. And yes, it is nine hells and not seven hells.

It still doesn't change anything, because erinyes and succubi have similar abilities in regards of escaping (teleporting and charming too).

It's still a work in progress, so excuse me for the confusement. Sorry!

[Chilingsworth]

No worries :smallbiggrin:

Though one important difference: The erinyes has an at will unholy blight spell like ability. If she's allowed to remain concious, she might be able to kill some of the party with that.

[Jon_Dahl]

Thank you. So the cleric will automatically slay any unconscious erinyes the PCs bring to him. It's impossible to imprison such a creature.

Bearded devils are still a problem that can and will be solved with a sticky lead rod.

[ahenobarbi]

Bearded devils are still a problem that can and will be solved with a sticky lead rod.

Just beware that getting free is rather easy... You can take 20 on strength check to break free (if you have time).

[Jon_Dahl]

Just beware that getting free is rather easy... You can take 20 on strength check to break free (if you have time).

Thank you, I will equip the cleric with an assortment of manacles (non-magical).

P.S. I really appreciate that you all try to analyze the scenario and break it. It's better to see it now than in the actual session.

[Chilingsworth]

Well, weren't you looking for devil's advocates? :smalltongue:

[Frozen_Feet]

Yeah, concealment would probably help against her. gluing her mouth shut might be kind of pointless, though: succubi are telepathic.


You can be immune to telepathy without being immune to being spoken to. Hence, glue her mouth shut and wear a tinfoil hat. (Or whatever it takes to block telepathy.) :smalltongue:

This whole scenario is starting to sound pretty kinky.

[limejuicepowder]

Maybe someone said this, but if not this will definitely be the cheapest: a blackjack only costs a couple GP. Buy one, and hire some commoner to give it a swing every few minutes. For a couple of silver a day, they will be knocked out for as long as you want, and unconscious = no SLA.

[Hopeless]

Whilst unconscious transport within an underground dungeon leaving her at the heart, seal up the exit from said heart and leave said complex and seal that.
Now cast Hallow with Protection from evil designed to seal those within so they have to find a physical way out rather than teleport, insure nothing has any reason to come within at least a few miles of said complex and excise location from all written histories and add to the oral histories that opening said complex will end the world using a complete lie to indicate it was sealed to prevent a cataclysm.

Last time I check a teleport at will creature cannot teleport anywhere it hasn't seen and if unable to plane shift back home it might be stuck especially if you add a glyph that sticks them with a curse like a helm of opposite alignment if they do leave or you can leave them that information as a bluff but I'd really make that true to really insure it doesn't return to its former career...

Hey would a polymorph other spell work on her whilst unconscious?

Wakes up in her new form and wearing a helm of opposite alignement and noone tells her what really happened?:smallwink:

[TuggyNE]

Maybe someone said this, but if not this will definitely be the cheapest: a blackjack only costs a couple GP. Buy one, and hire some commoner to give it a swing every few minutes. For a couple of silver a day, they will be knocked out for as long as you want, and unconscious = no SLA.

The OP states that there's a houserule in effect making non-lethal damage just as good at killing someone as lethal, so while this is technically workable, it's not very feasible.

[danzibr]

I didn't realize you couldn't consider a succubus an object. I mean, in D&D that object=not creature.

[Kornaki]

I didn't realize you couldn't consider a succubus an object

Because that would be incredibly sexist :smalltongue:

[Savith9]

anti magic zone

get a cage and have it enchanted with that or an item that has it in a slight aura and chain him up keep him in range of the item.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Because that would be incredibly sexist :smalltongue:

This just got me thinking that you could take the worst mysogynist's rant and it would probably be an accurate description of one of the two creatures in question. So, maybe they are objects.

[Person_Man]

Cast Dominate Monster on her, and just order her to not to teleport away.

There are also a variety of ways to deal ability damage without dealing hit point damage. If you reduce her to 0 Str, Dex, Int, Wis, or Cha, and keep her there, she'll stay unconscious, helpless or paralyzed. You can then use Read Thoughts or some similar equivalent if you need to interrogate her.

[ahenobarbi]

Cast Dominate Monster on her, and just order her to not to teleport away.

OP stated


We can use the following spells:
All cleric spells up to 5th-level
All wizard spells up to 4th-level
Any psionic power up to 2nd-level
All magical items available (but please remember the cost efficiency!)

so no Dominate Monster (unless there is a way to get it at much lower level).

[Darrin]

so no Dominate Monster (unless there is a way to get it at much lower level).

Lesser Planar Ally (Cleric 4). Grab a Formian Taskmaster (6HD). Dominate monster (Su). Takes less than a minute to perform, so price would probably be 600 GP, unless you could talk him into a discount.

[Aharon]

What about the order function of Charm Monster/Psionic Charm? If your caster has a high enough CHA, this should also be feasible.

[Person_Man]

so no Dominate Monster (unless there is a way to get it at much lower level).

As Darrin suggests, Lesser Planar Ally works fine for this. You can also debuff them heavily before they wake up, and then ready a casting of Charm Monster and/or Suggestion, and suggest that they not teleport away and instead take some reasonable course of action. (Hey, we really want to work together with you to x y z and will reward you with Whatever...)

[ahenobarbi]

Lesser Planar Ally (Cleric 4). Grab a Formian Taskmaster (6HD). Dominate monster (Su). Takes less than a minute to perform, so price would probably be 600 GP, unless you could talk him into a discount.

Well the Formian would have to concentrate on domination everyday to keep it working which makes task significantly longer.

On unrelated note: thanks (I might use this with my character :smallsmile:)

[ahenobarbi]

As Darrin suggests, Lesser Planar Ally works fine for this. You can also debuff them heavily before they wake up, and then ready a casting of Charm Monster and/or Suggestion, and suggest that they not teleport away and instead take some reasonable course of action. (Hey, we really want to work together with you to x y z and will reward you with Whatever...)

Or give Quest/Geass to not get away from you. I was jsut curious how would you access 9th level spell way earlier :smallsmile:

[AgentofHellfire]

There's always Bestow Curse (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bestowCurse.htm).


The section on the bottom states that you can invent your own curse, and "cannot leave this plane" doesn't sound all that much more powerful.

[ahenobarbi]

There's always Bestow Curse (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bestowCurse.htm).


The section on the bottom states that you can invent your own curse, and "cannot leave this plane" doesn't sound all that much more powerful.

Except that part where Dimensional Anchor is the same/ higher spell level, but has duration in minutes (not days) for the same effect.

[Starbuck_II]

I need to find a cost efficient way to imprison a succubus. Succubus is assumed to be helpless and at your mercy for exactly one hour. After that it will wake up and use its teleportation abilities.
We can use the following spells:
All cleric spells up to 5th-level
All wizard spells up to 4th-level
Any psionic power up to 2nd-level
All magical items available (but please remember the cost efficiency!)

Any source material can be used, but Core is preferred.

Please note: Spamming non-lethal damage is not an option, because all living creatures die at -10 hp (whether lethal or non-lethal). It's a house rule.
Sanctify Wicked Exalted Spell? It is imprisoned 1 year. It doesn't get to act while imprisoned. It slowly turns to good at end.

[AgentofHellfire]

Except that part where Dimensional Anchor is the same/ higher spell level, but has duration in minutes (not days) for the same effect.


I would agree, but compared to the power levels of the curses above it (one of which was a 50% chance each turn to do nothing at all--which is pretty insane), it's really pretty tame.

And the spell suggests that the power level be akin to that of the curses above it, which "can't teleport" certainly is.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Sanctify Wicked Exalted Spell? It is imprisoned 1 year. It doesn't get to act while imprisoned. It slowly turns to good at end.

As the template that is applied to the creature at the end of that year can't be applied to outsiders with the evil subtype, the spell simply doesn't work on fiends.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Except that part where Dimensional Anchor is the same/ higher spell level, but has duration in minutes (not days) for the same effect.

No save, medium range vs. Will negates, Touch

Dimensional Anchor is clearly the better combat spell.