just for kicks, any way to prep spells in time stop

[Saito Takuji]

okay assuming 18 starting in primary casting ability, as well as wish/manuals for the +5 bonuses, as well as all points put into that score as well for another +4, so a 27 score at level 20, plus another 6 netting 33 for the wonderous item to maximize bonus spells per day, or PP reserve or whatever else would be relavant.

any other ways to up PP or spells per day, thats really only one 9th level slot extra

would it be at all possible at level or ECL 20. if not what would be the minimum level for this

[Lord_Gareth]

Well, can you Persist a Maximized Timestop? You'd probably need to be a Cleric for it (DMM go go go!) but, you know, why the hell not?

[Saito Takuji]

not too well versed on DMM and the like, i assume persist increaces the duration, but how?

[Seer_of_Heart]

not too well versed on DMM and the like, i assume persist increaces the duration, but how?

DMM lets you power metamagic feats by burning turn undead usages equal to the spell level adjustment +1. Although there are no rules for it, since this wasn't meant to be persisted

[Jack_Simth]

not too well versed on DMM and the like, i assume persist increaces the duration, but how?
Fortunately, Persistent Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#persistentSpell) is in the SRD. Divine Metamagic is pretty simple, in that it permits you to trade turn undead uses to put metamagic on a spell. Time Stop (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/timeStop.htm) is a personal spell, although it's arguable that it's not subject to Persistent Spell, as the 3.0 FAQ said it was an Instant spell. Mind you, that's not what the text says, exactly. Of course, the "wrong" interpretation means that when you Persist Time Stop, you've got 1d4+1 rounds you can use over the next 24 hours... and you lose your regular actions, sitting in almost-stasis for a hefty length of time. And oh yes, there's nothing in Time Stop restricting other people from hurting *you*.

So if you try that particular brand of stinky cheese, be prepared for a DM not making it do what you want it to do.

Of course, if you're using Divine spells, you've got a problem: Those are prepared at a specific time of day. If you've stopped time... that doesn't help. It would have to be Arcane. You'll need to use the Incantatrix's free metamagic, or perhaps another source of it (or just go Epic and get lots of Improved Spell Capacity).

[Seer_of_Heart]

Fortunately, Persistent Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#persistentSpell) is in the SRD. Divine Metamagic is pretty simple, in that it permits you to trade turn undead uses to put metamagic on a spell. Time Stop (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/timeStop.htm) is a personal spell, although it's arguable that it's not subject to Persistent Spell, as the 3.0 FAQ said it was an Instant spell. Mind you, that's not what the text says, exactly. Of course, the "wrong" interpretation means that when you Persist Time Stop, you've got 1d4+1 rounds you can use over the next 24 hours... and you lose your regular actions, sitting in almost-stasis for a hefty length of time. And oh yes, there's nothing in Time Stop restricting other people from hurting *you*.

So if you try that particular brand of stinky cheese, be prepared for a DM not making it do what you want it to do.

Of course, if you're using Divine spells, you've got a problem: Those are prepared at a specific time of day. If you've stopped time... that doesn't help. It would have to be Arcane. You'll need to use the Incantatrix's free metamagic, or perhaps another source of it (or just go Epic and get lots of Improved Spell Capacity).
Or be a dragonwrought kobold :smallbiggrin:, Chaos shuffle some location feats to Improved Spell Capacity

[Jack_Simth]

Or be a dragonwrought kobold :smallbiggrin:, Chaos shuffle some location feats to Improved Spell CapacityThere's a number of ways to get super-9th's, yes. For instance, you can combine Circle Magic from the Red Wizard of Thay PrC with the Extra Spell feat (Heighten a spell to something well over 9th, use that to qualify for Extra Spell, and grab a spell slot of a level of your choice).

[Scow2]

Fortunately, Persistent Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#persistentSpell) is in the SRD. Divine Metamagic is pretty simple, in that it permits you to trade turn undead uses to put metamagic on a spell. Time Stop (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/timeStop.htm) is a personal spell, although it's arguable that it's not subject to Persistent Spell, as the 3.0 FAQ said it was an Instant spell. Mind you, that's not what the text says, exactly. Of course, the "wrong" interpretation means that when you Persist Time Stop, you've got 1d4+1 rounds you can use over the next 24 hours... and you lose your regular actions, sitting in almost-stasis for a hefty length of time. And oh yes, there's nothing in Time Stop restricting other people from hurting *you*.

So if you try that particular brand of stinky cheese, be prepared for a DM not making it do what you want it to do.

Of course, if you're using Divine spells, you've got a problem: Those are prepared at a specific time of day. If you've stopped time... that doesn't help. It would have to be Arcane. You'll need to use the Incantatrix's free metamagic, or perhaps another source of it (or just go Epic and get lots of Improved Spell Capacity).

I find it interesting how attempting this kind of thing can result in a chance of it not just failing, but backfiring like this.

[Saito Takuji]

right-o hmm only have access to the d20srd atm, so how does persist actually work?

[Jack_Simth]

right-o hmm only have access to the d20srd atm, so how does persist actually work?
It's in the Divine Section. Here:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#persistentSpell

You take a spell of personal or fixed range with a noninstant duration that can't be discharged and it now lasts 24 hours. It's a +6 metamagic (but there's ways around the costs).


A persistent spell has a duration of 24 hours. The persistent spell must have a personal range or a fixed range. Spells of instantaneous duration cannot be affected by this feat, nor can spells whose effects are discharged. You need not concentrate on spells such as detect magic or detect thoughts to be aware of the mere presence of absence of the things detected, but you must still concentrate to gain additional information as normal. Concentration on such a spell is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. A persistent spell uses up a spell slot six levels higher than the spell’s actual level.

Persisting a Time Stop becomes a fairly tortured rules interpretation, however you slice it. Players will look at "oh, hey! I have 24 hours in my standard action!" - I've DM'd before (not very good at it), and also have an eye to "Hmm... how can I keep this meeting RAW perfectly while still making it a really really bad idea..."

[Saito Takuji]

ah musta glossed over that..... that seems wayy to easy but RAW it does work i guess. was hoping for a different flavor of cheese tho

[Saito Takuji]

and this is all mostly theroetical anyways, not something i would ever play, expcept in mabey an uber-cheese campaign.

[Jack_Simth]

ah musta glossed over that..... that seems wayy to easy but RAW it does work i guess. was hoping for a different flavor of cheese tho
... you were hoping for something that would let you prepare a spell within a round or two, then?

Well, there's methods to refresh spells that you have already prepared and expended - Mage's Lucubration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesLucubration.htm) and a Pearl of Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#pearlofPower) can do it. If you have a source of at-will spell-likes, a Rod of Absorbtion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#absorption) can somewhat do it (what it can really do is cast a spell without using up the spell slot) although you're burning wealth that way, and it is better to charge it, you know, before you get into battle (or by absorbing spells cast at you), rather than spending your time stop rounds that way.

[Pickford]

Fortunately, Persistent Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#persistentSpell) is in the SRD. Divine Metamagic is pretty simple, in that it permits you to trade turn undead uses to put metamagic on a spell. Time Stop (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/timeStop.htm) is a personal spell, although it's arguable that it's not subject to Persistent Spell, as the 3.0 FAQ said it was an Instant spell. Mind you, that's not what the text says, exactly. Of course, the "wrong" interpretation means that when you Persist Time Stop, you've got 1d4+1 rounds you can use over the next 24 hours... and you lose your regular actions, sitting in almost-stasis for a hefty length of time. And oh yes, there's nothing in Time Stop restricting other people from hurting *you*.

Well...there's the fact no real time passes, so even if you persist the spell you can't affect other creatures, their possessions etc... and you'll have felt like 24 hours passed (even though nothing 'moves', including the sun) before everything resumes. So you could try sleeping, but you risk resuming the battle asleep.

[Jack_Simth]

Well...there's the fact no real time passes, so even if you persist the spell you can't affect other creatures, their possessions etc... and you'll have felt like 24 hours passed (even though nothing 'moves', including the sun) before everything resumes. So you could try sleeping, but you risk resuming the battle asleep.You don't have to get them directly. To pull this off, you're probably running a Wizard for the base chasis, with Incantatrix (or some other full casting PrC) on top of it, casting 9th level spells. You can affect anything unattended - a comparatively simple Move Earth (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/moveEarth.htm) spell takes care of most mundane opponents when you can do the entire casting time before they can blink.

And really: You only need to get the timing exactly if you're using rounds/level buffs. If you're clever, you cast an extended [something] that lasts hours/level at caster level 11 just after casting your Persistent Time Stop. Presto: An alarm clock that gives you about two hours' warning.

Really, though: When was the last time you slept for more than 20 hours straight (when you'd been getting regular sleep beforehand, I mean)?

[Pickford]

You don't have to get them directly. To pull this off, you're probably running a Wizard for the base chasis, with Incantatrix (or some other full casting PrC) on top of it, casting 9th level spells. You can affect anything unattended - a comparatively simple Move Earth (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/moveEarth.htm) spell takes care of most mundane opponents when you can do the entire casting time before they can blink.

And really: You only need to get the timing exactly if you're using rounds/level buffs. If you're clever, you cast an extended [something] that lasts hours/level at caster level 11 just after casting your Persistent Time Stop. Presto: An alarm clock that gives you about two hours' warning.

Really, though: When was the last time you slept for more than 20 hours straight (when you'd been getting regular sleep beforehand, I mean)?

Except the clock wouldn't move? Maybe if you're holding it when you cast time stop? :smallconfused:

And yeah, you could just disintigrate all the ground under someone and make them fall ~60' if you were to expend all your 6th level casting slots for an 8 hour period...but then they only take 6d6 falling damage. So it's not 'that' great.

The only reason to want more time would be for buffing, but most buffs don't last long enough so you'd be cramming it all in the last few minutes of the 24 hour period.

[JaronK]

One silly way to do the instant prepare thing involves Genesis. Just make your own demiplane with flowing time 1000 and timeless, and Gate there to prepare.

JaronK

[Rubik]

One silly way to do the instant prepare thing involves Genesis. Just make your own demiplane with flowing time 1000 and timeless, and Gate there to prepare.

JaronK1,000x? Pfft. make it 1,000,000 and nab Leadership (and all the feats that boost it). Then when you gain epic spells you can research them pretty much spontaneously with no XP cost because your millions of followers mitigate the cost with 1st level spells.

[JaronK]

There's really no limit, which is why that spell REALLY should have added an "except no screwing with time traits" in after the part where they let you make the environment be anything you wanted.

JaronK

[Douglas]

Find a way to boost your manifester level to 57607, and augment Temporal Acceleration (be a Metamind for Font of Power to fuel it)? That would get you a 24 hour Time Stop effect.

A psionic version of Cosmic Descryer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/prestigeClasses/cosmicDescryer.htm) could do it, though you'd need either epic levels or major shenanigans to qualify early. You would also need a way to survive taking somewhere around 288 thousand damage, but that's almost trivial at this level of optimization.

[Jack_Simth]

Except the clock wouldn't move? Maybe if you're holding it when you cast time stop? :smallconfused:

It's not an actual clock. It's a spell used to the same effect. The duration of area spells you cast explicitly count down during a time stop. So something like, say, Alarm, at caster level 11, lasts 22 hours, giving you a clock you can watch tick down with a Permanencied Arcane Sight or Detect Magic. Consecrate or Desecrate also works well for a cleric. Darkvision, Mage Armor, or False Life on yourself should also work. Floating Disk might also be particularly useful, as if you sleep on top of it, you'll fall three feet when it expires. Guards and Wards also makes a good clock - it produces measurable, physical effects you can lean on (which vanish when it's over). Hallucinatory Terrain means that the sun's suddenly in your eyes when it runs out, or Minor Creation for a cot that vanishes when you're done resting.


[QUOTE=douglas;14721917]Find a way to boost your manifester level to 57607, and augment Temporal Acceleration (be a Metamind for Font of Power to fuel it)? That would get you a 24 hour Time Stop effect.

A psionic version of Cosmic Descryer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/prestigeClasses/cosmicDescryer.htm) could do it, though you'd need either epic levels or major shenanigans to qualify early. You would also need a way to survive taking somewhere around 288 thousand damage, but that's almost trivial at this level of optimization.
You don't need it at manifester level 57607. You only need to be able to get two or three rounds out of it's natural duration, and be able to Plane Shift (Greater Teleport is also very useful for this) so manifester level 19. Manifest Temporal Acceleration. In round one, you Plane Shift to the Astral, in which such things don't expire (Timeless Trait). You then rest up (safe from everything, as your Temporal Acceleration doesn't tick down thanks to the Timeless trait, and nothing else gets to act while you're in a TA), regain your power points, and then buff up just before you Plane Shift back. In round 2, you Greater Teleport back to the battlefield, and in round 3 you ready an action for when the TA ends.


And yeah, you could just disintigrate all the ground under someone and make them fall ~60' if you were to expend all your 6th level casting slots for an 8 hour period...but then they only take 6d6 falling damage. So it's not 'that' great.

You're forgetting: 9th level spells, and you get to re-prep them every time. You don't cast Disintegrate if you're going that route. You Shapechange into a Beholder and use the eye rays to the same effect. Or you Polymorph into a Thoqqua or Dire Badger and dig a deep hole. Or you completely bury your target in an Instant manner (Lots of ways - use a shovel, cast Move Earth, make use of a Lyre of Building, have fun with Wall of Stone, Transmute Rock to Mud, and Dispel Magic, cast Major Creation, or any of a number of other possibilities for completely encasing a subject without actually affecting it directly), then just wait a while after the Time Stop expires to give time for the subject to suffocate.


The only reason to want more time would be for buffing, but most buffs don't last long enough so you'd be cramming it all in the last few minutes of the 24 hour period.I can think of quite a few other reasons, myself. Re-preparing spells, like the OP was asking, being one of the big ones.