[3.5] Spellthief Build Ideas

[Kaustic]

I have joined a small group recently and decided to tickle my fancy with the Spellthief. I am a standard Human. So far I have made the decision to go the TWF route, pumping Dex, dropping Str. I want him to be a bit "Gishy" so I've written out a build that I've seen a few times on the Board here.

We currently are sporting a Sorcerer, Barbarian, Fighter, and Favored Soul. As you can see, no one really high up in the power scales(I say this because the Sorcerer doesn't exactly have the best of spells selected, which is totally cool.)

Spellthief 1/Duskblade 5/Swordsage 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/X

Swordsage 1 is at Initiator Level 4, I was thinking of Shadow Hand Manuvers for easier Battlefield movement, either that or Diamond Mind for the Concentration checks vs my Will/Reflex saves. Later getting the ever famed Iron Heart Surge.

Focusing on increasing the Duskblades Caster Levels via JPM. I was thinking of another Prc to enter after JPM or maybe ending JPM early. Jumping into Abjurant Champion.

Suel Arcanamach would be interesting as well, but I'm trying not to have too many spell lists to really worry about. I'm also not trying to steal any real lime light from the other players, as two of them are green in the D&D dept.

I was also looking for suggestions on Feat progressions besides the Two-Weapon Fighting line. Master Spellthief of course. Would Improved Initiative be a good feat to take? I'm already Dex heavy, and an extra +4 would be a nice Icing. I was also thinking of possibly Obtain Familiar with a Humming Bird.

[Diarmuid]

I assume you plan on grabbing master spellthief, which will help you steal higher level spells but unfortunately does not let you store more spell levels than your actual Spellthief level. Additionally, you're not going to get any of the other ST base class abilities.

This doesnt really seem like a "Spellthief" build and really just becomes a feat tax to make ST even remotely (and still very limited) viable. You're not even getting the benefit of being able to cast your other arcane spells in armor as you've already got that via Duskblade.

What does the ST level really bring to the table in this build?

[Kaustic]

Good point. I was just fiddiling around with a build. I really do need to rely more on the Spellthief.

I'm a bit afraid to go full Spellthief, though I'm thinking more about it now and I should. I am going to be the party's "Rogue" more often than not.

Mayhaps then suggestions on Feats going Full Spellthief. Is Obtain Familiar still worth it? Master Spellthief even for full Spellthief? Dipping Feats into obtaining Assassin's Stance?

I know I'm pretty much going to be melee.

[Answerer]

Well, if you're melee you definitely want Weapon Finesse, and Craven's a pretty obvious choice in general for anyone who plans on using Sneak Attack.

I'm not a big fan of Familiars, but if you are, Obtain Familiar is not appreciably better or worse for a full Spellthief than it is for a multiclassed one, that I can see.

Godsblood Spelltheft (www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070606) is another great feat for you: spontaneously convert a stolen spell into the spell of the same level from a selected Domain.

Master Spellthief is a good feat even for a single-classed Spellthief, thanks to its fixing the halved Caster Level that the Spellthief gets.

Also consider carefully the Trickster Spellthief ACF from Dragon #353: you lose a lot of those Rogue features, but you gain the spellcasting progression of a Bard, and add all Bard spells to your spell list. Those help quite a lot, and also mitigates the importance of Master Spellthief since it fixes your Caster Level (Master Spellthief still fixes Arcane Spell Failure on stolen Arcane spells, which is still pretty nice).

Regardless, wands are going to be a very important part of your set-up here. Max UMD, max Charisma, etc. On a Spellthief I'm building myself, I even went so far as to dip Artificer, which combined with a houserule allowing it to work with Master Spellthief, allows me to create wands pretty well. (Also, it's kind of depressing that my Spellthief 5/Artificer 1 has 67% more infusions than he does spells.)

Bite of the wererat and girallon's blessing from Spell Compendium are probably spells you want, either to learn yourself when you get there, or to buy a wand of, and bladeweave and wraithstrike are also definitely contenders. For giving yourself a bit of range, whirling blade is awesome if combined with invisibility, blinding the opponents, or other ways of denying them Dex to AC. Cloud of knives is wand-only for you, but is another great pick-up.

Also, a Trickster Spellthief can (and probably should) learn grease and glitterdust.

[Kaustic]

I think as more of the Rogue of the party, I'll be needing at least the Trapfinding aspect of Spellthief, so I don't know if I can warrant the Trickster Spellthief ACF.

I have Craven on the mind as well. I am not to certain if picking up Assassin's Stance would be worth it or not.

Would Godsblood Spelltheft allow me to use Any Domain to cast spells from or only from my Favored Patron?

[Answerer]

I think as more of the Rogue of the party, I'll be needing at least the Trapfinding aspect of Spellthief, so I don't know if I can warrant the Trickster Spellthief ACF.
Trapfinding is grossly overrated, IMO. Have a spellcaster pick up the Summon Elemental reserve feat if you face traps too often (it's a great feat anyway).


I have Craven on the mind as well. I am not to certain if picking up Assassin's Stance would be worth it or not.
Probably is, yes. That route can also get your Shadow Blade, which is nice.


Would Godsblood Spelltheft allow me to use Any Domain to cast spells from or only from my Favored Patron?
Actually, it's only from the Domains of certain listed deities. Basically, at some point in the past, gods fought and bled over each other's portfolios, and that blood is what created spellthieves originally. Some spellthieves discover they are still influenced by that divine blood, giving access to spells from that god's Domains. The gods in question are just those that bled back then. Who you do or do not worship has nothing to do with it.

[Kaustic]

Would the Shadow Trickster Feat(ToB pg.32) be worth it as well?
Increases the DC of Illusion Spells by 2 and adds 2 additional bonus damage for sneak attacks, sudden strikes, or when flanking.

[Fouredged Sword]

Trapfinding is avalable at the cost of a single feat, 250gp, and some skill points at 6th level.

Planer Touchstone(Catalogs of Enlightenment) for the Kobold domain will grant any character trapfinding. It also adds disable device and Search to your class skills.