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HorseCover
2013-02-15, 02:07 PM
Ok Playgrounders, I messed up.

CHARLIE, IF YOU'RE READING THIS, STOP

This is a Pathfinder game, with all of DSP's Psionic material

Spoilered, as I am long winded.

The Set-up:

The PCs (who come from floating psionic islands) have to scale a giant clockwork tower to rescue a senator who is under house arrest and feels that an assassin may be coming to kill him. They spent a day in the city (which is a sprawling mechanical metropolis), seeking out information on the tower, and hiring a wizard who can get them the spells they need to execute their plan, which involves flying to the Senators home from another tower, and getting teleported out once they save/kidnap him.

They expect to have all kinds of resistance, as this is a luxury apartment with all kinds of defenses against magic and mundane intrusion. When they arrive, the anti-magic field they were expecting to activate is curiously not present. They peek in the house, and notice that the guards have been knocked out (or killed) and one of the PCs, an assassin path Psychic Warrior, sees a red cape go around a corner. The assassin is in the building! Oh noes!

The assassin is an Inquisitor of Wee Jas (I borrowed 3.5 deities to spare having to learn a new pantheon), who has come to bring the senator to justice. Why, you might ask? Well that's what I wanted the characters to ask themselves. So, a fight ensues, the PCs do pretty well, despite the Inquisitor making pretty awesome will saves against about everything they were trying to do. Eventually, they wore her down and it was time for her to make her grand escape...and the PCs threw all of their resources into a huge push to take her out while she is in free fall.

I realize, I could have easily just said, well, you hit her but she is still standing (falling). But they put so much into it that I felt they needed to be rewarded. And so, they got her awesome equipment, which isn't going to really unbalance anything since they spent so much of their wealth getting to the tower. They even sold quite a bit of their equipment to pay for the means to fly there. (They could have simply climbed, and they would have seen that it is easy to climb if they had just examined the tower personally, which I suggested three times. That would have lead to an awesome encounter with the clockwork spiders I had made to guard the tower, but PCs, right?)

The trick is, the PCs captured one of my plot device NPCs, and took her to a colony of psionics to interrogate her. She doesn't know enough to unravel the whole plot, but she has a vital piece of information that is going to keep my PCs from figuring out everything on their own, something that I think will be extremely rewarding for them, and will (should) be a piece of cake to do after the next adventure.

My question is two fold:

1: How should I play this interrogation? Should I let the PCs just view it, so I can have more control over the results, or should I let the PCs be involved, so they don't end up feeling left out?

2: How do I go about having her give the PCs useful information, without giving away the big secret, which will be the one thing they will really want to know? (Why did she want to kill the senator?)

subject42
2013-02-15, 02:37 PM
What's to prevent the militant priest of the Lady of Book and Bone from just committing ritual suicide at the first opportunity?

Speak with Dead has more restrictions on it than open interrogations.

HorseCover
2013-02-15, 02:46 PM
What's to prevent the militant priest of the Lady of Book and Bone from just committing ritual suicide at the first opportunity?

No equipment, and she's unconscious right now.

silverwolfer
2013-02-15, 02:48 PM
retroactively put the captive under a gaes, have her convulse if she reveals to much information, but be able to speak if the PC's ask vague questions or things that won't ruin your storyline. If they ask three questions that are to close to the storyline, have her die from the stress of the convulsing .

I would let the PC's make the questions up, and then let the psionics do the actions. If you have Good aligned characters, have the psionics be cruel towards the middle or end of it, if they are smart enough to not get her killed, so you can cause of moral dilemma for your party. Do they ask the one question that would obviously get the NPC killed, or let her live and answer for her crimes.

HorseCover
2013-02-15, 03:50 PM
retroactively put the captive under a gaes, have her convulse if she reveals to much information, but be able to speak if the PC's ask vague questions or things that won't ruin your storyline. If they ask three questions that are to close to the storyline, have her die from the stress of the convulsing .

I would let the PC's make the questions up, and then let the psionics do the actions. If you have Good aligned characters, have the psionics be cruel towards the middle or end of it, if they are smart enough to not get her killed, so you can cause of moral dilemma for your party. Do they ask the one question that would obviously get the NPC killed, or let her live and answer for her crimes.

I love it, and I can tie her directly to one of the higher ups in the clergy. I have an NPC that I used with one of the players in an earlier campaign where he played a cleric of Wee Jas.

KillianHawkeye
2013-02-15, 04:07 PM
If the interrogators are psionics, can't they just read her mind?

HorseCover
2013-02-15, 04:13 PM
If the interrogators are psionics, can't they just read her mind?

Yup. That's the real issue. Still, they may try verbal interrogation first, which can get the Quest spell effects across. Mind Blank is too high level to be explainable, and I'm not sure it will work in this instance, since I don't have psionic/magic transparency.

It's an ugly situation. I may have to retroactively change what she knows, or some element of the plot. Luckily, what the PCs know at this point is pretty superficial.

subject42
2013-02-15, 04:20 PM
No equipment, and she's unconscious right now.

Just to play rules lawyer, you can make an unarmed strike with any part of your body, and you can always succeed in attacking yourself. If the inquisitor is of at least 5th level, it's likely that he could Bane himself back into unconsciousness as soon as he regained consciousness. Eventually nonlethal overflow would kill him.

KillianHawkeye
2013-02-15, 05:24 PM
Eventually nonlethal overflow would kill him.

Is that a rule in Pathfinder? Does nonlethal damage convert into lethal at some point? :smallconfused:

Although I agree that an unarmed character could probably kill themselves if they bash their head into the wall enough times.

Blarmb
2013-02-15, 05:36 PM
I feel like any universe where floating psionic islands are a thing, basic precautions against this sort of thing getting out control would have been developed. Especially for assassins.

Just throwing some mind-reading abilities is a relatively low resource expenditure an at least relative to major parts of the game, probably shouldn't reveal too much more than other forms of getting information.

I'd say on a successfully mind-reading, they get maybe somewhere in the realm of the 70-80% of the detail in terms of the the important things she knows, leaving out just enough that they'd want more.

The mind-reader regardless of if they're successful in getting that much sees that there is a variety of brain-lock on the facts. You could then do something like have the mind-reader project into the subject's mind, whip out some kind pre-gen entities to control that everyone plays to reprsent the mind-readers brain diving session. Make it like a little mini-adventure that takes an hr or 2 of the sessions. You have some really sort of far-out elemtents you can't work into the regular game, and don't even have to worry about killing anyone's characters.

Once you've used this method to establish the fact that mind reading doesn't always reveal anything in a setting where it's super-common (it's also just tends to be degenerate to let those kind of powers run rampant in any game), it's enough to abstract it out and maybe force hard secondary checks on mind reading important targets (unless the players really like going on little in-brain side adventures in which you can do more of those).


You avoid a save-or-plot-dies situation, and nobody feels really cheated because they get to play out the "Not really RAW" element that's slowing things down, so it isn't just dumped on them.

subject42
2013-02-15, 06:51 PM
Is that a rule in Pathfinder? Does nonlethal damage convert into lethal at some point? :smallconfused:

Yeah, nonlethal --> lethal conversion is on the list of things that I think Paizo got right:



If a creature's nonlethal damage is equal to his total maximum hit points (not his current hit points), all further nonlethal damage is treated as lethal damage. This does not apply to creatures with regeneration. Such creatures simply accrue additional nonlethal damage, increasing the amount of time they remain unconscious.

ReaderAt2046
2013-02-15, 11:01 PM
In the Firebird trilogy (which has psionic mind-reading), the protagonist order known as the Sentinels possess a special technique called amnesia-blocking. Essentially, a Sentinel can tear a hole in his own alpha-matrix, breaking the connections between specific selected memories and his concious mind. Not only does this make him unbreakable by regular interrogation (since he genuninely doesn't know the desired information), it also prevents psionics from getting at the blocked knowledge, since there are no mental links between the knowledge and the upper mind where the psion can break in. Only a few specialist mind-healers know how to undo this.

This is only to be used as a last resort, because:

1. Even the Sentinel himself can't usually reverse the block, so he becomes effectively useless.

2. An activated block can cause phobia, psychosis, or personality changes, as well as crippling psionic powers.

3. Even a trained mind-healer often can't get all the memories back or reverse all the mental damage. This is especially true if the block had to be used more than once.

Maybe your Inquisitor could be trained in something like this?

ArcturusV
2013-02-15, 11:08 PM
Psychic Interrogation. I never quite liked this. So I understand why you might be having trouble.

My standing philosophy with Psychic Interrogation in games I DM is to run it like you would a Torture Session. Because it IS torture. It's ripping apart your mind like someone taking a stick of dynamite to a locked safe. It's not clean. It's not guaranteed to really work. Probably will however... but it's not exactly delicate. I can't really see any rationale for why it WOULD be delicate, pain free, and 100% effective. If I didn't want you reading my mind... well most Psychic rules have some "innate defense" even untrained people know. It's usually somewhat trivial for a psychic to break of course. So consider that the stick of dynamite that just blew up a safe. Sure you cracked the door open. But things aren't in order inside the safe. There's pain, confusion, tension, nervousness, hate... oh gods I couldn't imagine the hate I'd have if I knew someone was reading my mind (And possibly screwing with it).

I dunno... just never made sense to me that Psychic Interrogation would ever really work like it does in the movies, where the Psychic just stares at a guy for about half a second, maybe 5 seconds if they are being dramatic, and say "I know everything this man has ever thought and all his darkest secrets".

I imagine it more like the Mindsifter from Star Trek. Sure it'll get results. But its' painful. Very painful. Might even kill the guy before you find out what you're looking for.