Looking for a CR13 demon - building an arena

[Bobur]

Hi there.
To unkock a legendary weapon, my current group has to kill an evil outsider of their own CR+1. They are like 2 levels too high for the actual campaign, so there isnt any.

But they should still get the chance to do it, but they have to earn it.

Do you know a good demon encounter with CR13 ?
A pimped up version of something else would work too.

My group consists of: 3.5e
- Barbarian Crit, crit and more crits
- Wizzard (fire blaster with a meta magic focussed prc), likes to crit kill everything with 1st turn desintegrate. And its shocking how often that happens.
- Cleric, like 3 different prc, one is ordained champion.
- Druid good caster with dragon shape feat, prefers to use a dire bear form+ girallons blessing and magical natural attacks.
- The rougue ranger - nice sneak attacks otherwise weak.
Cleric and Druid are pretty much imune to all Will save based spells. They easily beat anything thats below DC25.

Open for ideas.
the last thing I threw at them was a CR12 Kasthigur, who was able to kill one, almost two of the team, because of a bad positioning and some bad luck. (our mage did a crit desintegrate again, but failed on the spell res or the fight would have been over pretty fast)

They are currently in Zhelatar, the demon capital, so there is no limit to what might show up.

EDIT:
I really think our group would enjoy an arena like encounter to prove themselves and bath in glory. ^^

Therefore I am currently planning a multi encounter challenge.
Like 4 encounters with a CR13 boss at the end.

[Flickerdart]

Well, the easiest way would be to use a 13th level evil Aasimar Cleric, who casts Undead Mask on himself to make himself immune to critical hits and sneak attack, and uses Spell Turning to avoid that nasty Disintegrate. Fire Shield is a good trick against the druid's many natural attacks.

A (greater) Barghest, Succubus, or fallen Angel or Archon can qualify for a level in Warshaper which grants them immunity to critical hits. Levels 2 and 3 are also worth taking, and the rest can be advancement HD - so this CR13 Greater Barghest would have 22 HD (19 Outsider HD and three Warshaper HD) and gain a total of +11 to Constitution and Strength (plus 3 points of normal ability improvements) and +11 Natural Armour (for a final AC of 31). Its HP total becomes 253, with a Fortitude save of +20. As a creature with class levels, it also gains the Elite Array and is entitled to NPC wealth, giving it magic items. The Warshaper levels also give it another natural attack (or possibly more than one, the ability's not very well written) for a total of four. Give it Improved Unarmed Strike to use its iterative attacks (and use its natural weapons as secondary attacks), and suddenly it's making eight attacks per round.

[Go!Go!Go!]

what's wrong with a glabrezu (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#glabrezu)? it's cr13.

[Mr Adventurer]

Quasit with 13 levels of Sorcerer.

[Bobur]

some nice ideas.
No1 would be the most deadly one I guess. If I want to kill them thats the way.^^ Although disintegrate is a range touch, so spell turning wont work.
If I am not mistaken.

Glabrezhu: He has no spell resistance... risky.He needs to be prepared ahead of time with his mirror image + blink to survive long enough to actually cast something.
his arsenal is quite nice: Stun word, rev. gravity...

The sorcerer goes into a simillar direction as the cleric.
I always wanted to use the clench heart spell ( where you ripp out the targets heart)... my group loves the 2nd indy jones movie ;)

[SowZ]

some nice ideas.
No1 would be the most deadly one I guess. If I want to kill them thats the way.^^ Although disintegrate is a range touch, so spell turning wont work.
If I am not mistaken.

Glabrezhu: He has no spell resistance... risky.He needs to be prepared ahead of time with his mirror image + blink to survive long enough to actually cast something.
his arsenal is quite nice: Stun word, rev. gravity...

The sorcerer goes into a simillar direction as the cleric.
I always wanted to use the clench heart spell ( where you ripp out the targets heart)... my group loves the 2nd indy jones movie ;)

Give the glabrezhu a some lower level minions that charge in first to keep everyone from single targeting him and killing him before he does anything.

[KillianHawkeye]

Glabrezhu: He has no spell resistance... risky.He needs to be prepared ahead of time with his mirror image + blink to survive long enough to actually cast something.
his arsenal is quite nice: Stun word, rev. gravity...

No spell resistance? SR 21, right there under "special qualities."

Also don't forget his confusion SLA can really mess up any group's coordinated attack plan.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Malebranche, FC2, CR 14
Ultroloth Yugoloth, MM3, CR 13
Jarilith Demon, MM2, CR 13
Kelubar Demodand, FF, CR 13
Alkilith Demon, FF, CR 14

[Flickerdart]

Spell Turning works against rays; it is ineffective against touch range spells, not touch attacks.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Don't forget Savage Species monster classes, good for more than just players.

[Runestar]

Spell Turning works against rays; it is ineffective against touch range spells, not touch attacks.

Spell turning wouldn't work. It only deflects targeted spells, and ray spells like disintegrate are not targeted spells.

If you want evil outsiders, you can consider a fiendish aspect.

Aspect of tiamat is cr13.
Asmodeus is cr12.

Can download the pdf here.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070216a

[Tokuhara]

Spell turning wouldn't work. It only deflects targeted spells, and ray spells like disintegrate are not targeted spells.

If you want evil outsiders, you can consider a fiendish aspect.

Aspect of tiamat is cr13.
Asmodeus is cr12.

Can download the pdf here.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070216a

I second the Aspects, especially Tiamat. I once had the "joy" of running an Epic Game and threw a Rogue Aspect of Tiamat (The Aspect broke free from its summoner's control and got out of Tiamat's control) with levels of Disciple of Ashardalon and IIRC the "Uberdragon" PrC that requires you eat your horde. My party decided, after the Wizard, Cleric, and Factotum got destroyed by 5 simultaneous breath weapons that it would behoove them to flee.

[tiercel]

You could throw them a curveball and have them uncover an intrigue-based demon, e.g. Dra'thalia the Half-Breed:

Born from the unholy union of a seductress succubus and scheming yugoloth, Dra'thalia has inherited the half-fiend template in addition to her own intrinsic advancement through the various layers of the Abyss...


Succubus, half-fiend, max advancement, elite array
HD 12d8+48 (102hp)
Init +5
Spd 30, Fly 50 (average)
AC 25 (+5 Dex, +10 Natural), touch 15, flat-footed 20
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+15
Attack: Claw +15 melee (1d6+3)
Full attack: 2 claws +15 melee (1d6+3), bite +10 melee (d6+1)
Space/reach: 5ft/5ft
Special attacks: Energy drain, spell-like abilities, summon demon, smite good 1/day (+12 damage)
Damage reduction 10/cold iron or good AND 10/magic, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to electricity and poison, resistance to acid 10, cold 10, electricity 10 and fire 10, spell resistance 22, telepathy 100 ft., tongues
Saves: Fort +12, Ref +12, Will +9
Str 16, Dex 20, Con 18, Int 22, Wis 12, Cha 36
Elite array: (10, 13, 14, 12, 8, 15)
Succubus base @6HD: (+2/+2/+2/+6/+4/+16)
Advancement to 12HD: (0/+1/0/0/0/+1) Also, item +2Cha
Half-fiend: (+4/+4/+2/+4/+0/+2)
Skills: Bluff +31, Concentration +19, Diplomacy +35, Disguise +31* (+33 acting), Escape Artist +19, Gather Information +18 (0 ranks), Hide +19, Intimidate +33, Knowledge (local) +21, Listen +24, Move Silently +19, Search +21, Sense Motive +16, Spot +24, Use Magic Device +31
have added add'l class skills due to high Int; have justified adding UMD as this is a "boss monster" and it gives her the ability to do whatever you need her to do

Feats: Ability Focus (charm monster, suggestion), Martial Study (moment of perfect mind, mind over body), +1 feat of choice

CR 13-14 (formally 14, but there's a lot of overlap between succubus and half fiend. Probably 14 if you actually significantly use her UMD ability.)

Item: Circlet of persuasion and Charisma +2, ring of mind shielding

Energy Drain (Su)

A succubus drains energy from a mortal it lures into some act of passion, or by simply planting a kiss on the victim. If the target is not willing to be kissed, the succubus must start a grapple, which provokes an attack of opportunity. The succubus’s kiss or embrace bestows one negative level. The kiss also has the effect of a suggestion spell, asking the victim to accept another kiss from the succubus. The victim must succeed on a DC 26 Will save to negate the effect of the suggestion. The DC is 26 for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. These save DCs are Charisma-based.

Spell-Like Abilities

At will—charm monster (DC 29), detect good, detect thoughts (DC 25), ethereal jaunt (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), suggestion (DC 28), greater teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only). Caster level 12th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

Darkness 3/day, desecrate 1/day, unholy blight 1/day (DC 27), poison 3/day (DC 29), contagion 1/day (DC 27), blasphemy 1/day. Caster level 12th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

Summon Demon (Sp)

Once per day a succubus can attempt to summon 1 vrock with a 30% chance of success. This ability is the equivalent of a 3rd-level spell.
Change Shape (Su)

An succubus can assume the form of any Small or Medium humanoid.
Tongues (Su)

A succubus has a permanent tongues ability (as the spell, caster level 12th). Succubi usually use verbal communication with mortals.
Skills

Succubi have a +8 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks.

*While using her change shape ability, a succubus gains a +10 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks.


A mostly finished draft; refine to taste.

High points: Dra'thalia isn't a direct combat menace; the problem is even finding her amongst her webs of intrigue, and dealing with her charmed (generally mortal) minions, much less the people who just like her due to Diplomancy (+35 makes everyone friendly). Seeing through her disguise when using her change shape ability is difficult (+43 Disguise) and a ring of mind shielding prevents alignment and mind-based detection, not to mention that she can spam detect good and detect thoughts at will, the latter at DC 25.

Charm monster is Dra'thalia's bread and butter -- she can spam it at will, at DC 29, and it lasts 12 days per application. It wouldn't be hard to keep anyone she cared about interacting with charmed, assuming that her ridiculous Diplomacy wasn't enough.

Serious threats can be countered with Diamond Mind maneuvers long enough for Dra'thalia to simply teleport away and shift her identity.

Just for kicks and giggles, I fiat'd UMD onto her class skills (since something had to be done with her extra skill points from high Int and she's a BBEG); at +31 she can automatically use anything blindly, emulate any race, alignment or class feature, use any wand or non-epic spell, automatically emulate a Wisdom of 17 (and needs to roll a 3 on d20 to emulate a 19), and can automatically activate any non-epic scroll (only needing to roll to emulate Wisdom if she is casting an 8th or 9th level Clr/Drd spell). If Dra'thalia has a plot reason to stand and fight, with her charm abilities she can reasonably obtain most any consumable you could imagine to UMD against the PCs.

[Logic]

Spell turning wouldn't work. It only deflects targeted spells, and ray spells like disintegrate are not targeted spells.


Spell Turning:
Effect and area spells are not affected. Spell turning also fails to stop touch range spells.


Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don’t have to see the creature you’re trying to hit, as you do with a targeted power. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature you’re aiming at.
Emphasis mine. I don't think it works the way you described. I am of the opinion that Rays are meant to be stopped by Spell Turning.

EDIT. NEVERMIND. NEW EMPHASIS IS DARKRED.

Disintegrate
Effect: Ray

[Bobur]

So I was right about the ray.

The difference between a CR12 and aCR13 monste is huuuge. Never had the pleasure to bring such heave beast on the table before.

I overlooked the SR on the Glabrezhu, in that case he is pretty bad ass.

Aspect of Tiamat: Though I said "most anything", that seems a little too exotic.

Malebranche, FC2, CR 14 - dont have the book, but the pictures look stong.
Ultroloth Yugoloth, MM3, CR 13 - another strong caster type
Jarilith Demon, MM2, CR 13 - Wow, thats a killer melee
Kelubar Demodand, FF, CR 13 - The describtion isnt that scary, but a lot of acid, resistance and DR.
Alkilith Demon, FF, CR 14 - I was wondering why he is CR14, but the item destruction effect is really strong.

[Bobur]

Just another question to make sure of something:

If it says: spells "at will":
What exactly does that mean ? Can he spam those spells or is only one prepared? They still are casted like a regular spell arent they ? (1 standart action or more)

He simply can cast without having caster -class Levels, right ?

[KillianHawkeye]

Are you sure those are spells and not spell-like abilities? Spells are not normally described as at-will. An at-will spell-like ability never runs out; it can be used over and over again all day long.

Please double check, because none of the monsters mentioned in the post before your last one can cast actual spells, but several of them have at-will spell-like abilities.

[Flickerdart]

Just another question to make sure of something:

If it says: spells "at will":
What exactly does that mean ? Can he spam those spells or is only one prepared? They still are casted like a regular spell arent they ? (1 standart action or more)

He simply can cast without having caster -class Levels, right ?
"At Will" simply means you can do it as often as you like.

[Bobur]

Thx
It was the spell like ab. so those creatures can actually spam them. how nice.

I think I will give them a certain choice.
For example if they get caught they can fight in the demon's arena against a glabrezhu.
Or if they are fully prepared 2 encounters before that, a group of pipsqueaks, something mediocre to soften them up a little.

Its a big city and a lot can happen ;)

Actually there is an alkilith at some point of the story as well, but the group is highly adviced not to fight it as 2 shadow demons are with it.

[Logic]

Thx
It was the spell like ab. so those creatures can actually spam them. how nice.

I think I will give them a certain choice.
For example if they get caught they can fight in the demon's arena against a glabrezhu.
Or if they are fully prepared 2 encounters before that, a group of pipsqueaks, something mediocre to soften them up a little.

Its a big city and a lot can happen ;)

Actually there is an alkilith at some point of the story as well, but the group is highly adviced not to fight it as 2 shadow demons are with it.

"Spam them" may not be quite correct, as they still only have one standard action per round, and most of those at-will abilities are still a standard action each.

[Uhtred]

Goristro from Manual of the Planes is a CR13 and my single favorite demon ever. Having 3 of the minis and watching my players poop themselves when I dropped them onto the map was my proudest moment as a DM.

[eastmabl]

Be careful dropping in 3.0 monsters on the party without checking the updates to 3.5. 3.0 had the older, broken haste that you always cast.

For example, our DM threw a khython from the BoVD at us as a CR 13. Too bad he didn't check the updated version where he was CR 17, mostly because of broken haste.

[Bobur]

The goristro seems awesome, but in the book of vile darkn, he is a CR16 monster if I am right. So a little too much.

But you can help me creating an Arena encounter.

Starting with rather small and easy opponents, getting harder every time. At the end a CR13 boss is the goal.
They can earn money by doing so, doubling on each win, but loosing everything once they surrender. They can drop out whenever they want.

Unless they got caught by the guard patrol, then they HAVE to fight for their freedom and for Grazzt's amusement.

Coul be 4 to 6 encounters, with a Glabrezhu at its end.
The encounters dont have to be all of one type, I thought of a nine headed pyro/cryo hydra already for the later levels.
My group is ~Lv12 already with anti demon and holy weapons.

EC freeloot
EC 6-8
EC8-10 Nabassu look quite nasty, but I am still looking around. Maybe some other exotic animals, or a good character, forced to fight might be interesting.
EC10-11 9-10 headed Cryo/pyro hydra ?
Boss CR13: glabrezhu

[hamishspence]

The goristro seems awesome, but in the book of vile darkn, he is a CR16 monster if I am right. So a little too much.

Fiendish Codex 1, not BoVD, but yes, the updated version is CR16.

Oculus demons from Expedition to the Demonweb Pits might work- CR13, look a bit like a gargoyle with eyes everywhere.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/demonweb_gallery/103921.jpg

[Bobur]

I am actually playing that certain campaign with my group, but I totally forgot about those beasts. ^^ They are pretty strong, especially the fire imunity makes them great against my fire wizzard.

There is the swordsmanpit in Zhelatar offering what I want to do, but the creatures are all demons and evil, which makes it kinda boring. In an arena should be more variety:

original: 1000GP entry fee/head
each win doubles. 1st fight wins 1000gp (not per fighter)

CR4 rutterkins
CR7 a cambion wiz (Lv6)
CR8 2 lamias or 1 bodak
CR11 a Hezrou with a fireshield or Carnevus/Rutterkin team (those are the first that actually pose a thread)
CR12 3 Bulezau or 2 abyssal giants
CR14 An Alkilith

Though I COULD send this stuff, I would prefer some more variations. They can have some exotic animals and stuff like that.

Question on the alkilith: He can turn into (cloudkill) gasform, but the clooud is still only his size or does it grow somehow? When exactly does a target get dmg from the cloud, lets say he transforms and moves into the space of a character, can he just walk out without getting dmg or does he get dmg the moment he is in the cloud ? Or on his turn ? Or only after he stays the full round in it...

A hydra would be great.
Maybe something undead ? Yes, our cleric can turn them but still... maybe just an army of skeletol warriors.

[Bobur]

I think I will run something like this:

CR freeloot - dwarve slaves from trueguard
CR7 Maybe a black pudding ? In an open field not really dangerous
CR9 2 Lamia +1 Nabassu, could be CR10 with 2 Nabassu
CR11 10 headed pyro or cryo hydra
CR12 Cadaver collector or colossal scorpion
CR13 Oculus demon

I like to give them choices. although the demons in the arena dont just show them the stuff, but ask around it. Like: Do you like it hot or cold ? And then pick the opposite of the chosen. ;) Like for the hydra.

The last 2 are hard for our mage, as the construct is imune to any magic that allows SP-Res. While the oculus demon is imune to fire, which he deals the most.