Building a StP Erudite Pseudogod [3.5 FR Psi]

[Tokuhara]

So after many hours of deliberation, I decided my build to be the following:

StP Erudite x/Anarchic Initiate or Crystal Master 10/Arch Psion (removing the two non-existent skills) y

My only issues:

1. What race would work for this? Normally for psionics, Elan are the go-to, but in this case, I'm debating whether the Aberration type is worth in comparison to Azurin's essentia/bonus feat one-two punch. Then I also should consider Synad and their free 1/day pseudo-quicken and even the INT-focused Lesser Planetouched (Fire Genasi, Tieflings, Casin, Axani) would be great choices. What would be my best option?

2. Feats are another one I have issues with. This actually has as much to do with the final race for this build, but essentially based on the race that is the best option, what are the prime feats for an StP Erudite?

3. Powers. Now I know Wizard spells very well and have some that are my go-to spells (some of which aren't well-received here at the Playground, but my experience with certain spells has been better than the norm), but seeing as that this is my first real step into psionics, any ideas for some good go-to's I should look for?

Now here are the rulings, as per my DM, as well as the party set-up and "Roles":

Rules: Starting off at level 3 with a 28 point buy and appropriate WBL (and if there are any items I should try to grab/keep an eye for, please don't hesitate to say, "Hey! Check this item out!". Races are automatically proficient with racial weapons (Racial Familiarity) and Dwarves can use Dwarven Armor if they are proficient in Heavy Armor (Dwarven Armor Proficiency feat).

Party:

Snow Elf Swordsage - Focused on being a skirmisher, hitting for a boatload of damage in one hit with an Elven Courtblade

Human Cleric - He's our healer/buffer heading to a Faerunized Radiant Servant of Pelor (likely worshiping Ra) to be our Anti-undead guy

Half-Fey (homebrew race, though may switch to an Unseelie Half-Elf to not give the DM an aneurism) Druid - our main buffer and is actually trying to not get wildshape in favor of a more "Cleric of the Woods" theme

Half-Ogre Fighter - She's starting as a melee monster, but does have Power Throw (or whatever the feat is that lets you use STR for thrown weapons) and will eventually be using size Large Halfling skiprocks/orc shotputs/javelins (depends on her personal taste)

Goliath SLion Totem Barbarian - The beatstick. Heading to Bear Warrior

Grey Elf Rogue - {sarcasm} This guy will be taking arrows to the knee and getting hit by traps {/sarcasm}

[Getsugaru]

I suggest you take a look at this: KA's Psionics Tricks Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177889)
Specifically, make sure you look at the Erudite Concherto; you'll find it very useful, broken, or cheesy (or any combination of the three). I know it's not exactly what you're looking for, but if you're going to play psionics, you deserve to know...

[Nettlekid]

I've been thinking of a similar build, and I'd have to say, drop all the PrC. Erudite 20 is a god above all gods. For one, you'll need to take Erudite 11 or else by taking Erudite <10 and PrC 10, you'll lose your "learning powers" ability, the trademark skill of the Erudite. But secondly, there's nothing any other class can give you that you need. You have it all. By learning the spell-as-a-power Mental Pinnacle, you gain 3*ML PP in exchange for I think 13 PP. You will NEVER run out of PP. By using Soul Crystal (from ToI) you can not only bypass your UPD restrictions, but also turn any long manifestation time power into a standard action. You can use augmented Temporal Accelerations for buffing time, and use Delay Death to use Overchannel with everything you do. When Delay Death is about to run out, you could either Heal, or what I prefer to do is use Pact of Return and specify that your death is a result of the termination of your Delay Death. I also HIGHLY recommend using Body Outside Body clones to do everything for you, as they lose spellcasting but not SLAs (which Psionics are). You are an almighty Psion, and suddenly you are a thousand almighty Psions.

No racial ability comes close to matching the Erudite's raw power, so go for flavor mainly and functionality if you feel like it. Human or Azurin is good for the feat, as you say. Int-bonus races aren't all that important because you have unlimited PP, so the only thing Int gives you is DCs, and you should either not use Save-or-Dies or augment them so hideously high that a +1 to the DC makes no difference. I personally prefer Elan, not only because of the Psionic feel, but also the immortality. With no aging and no need to eat, an Elan Erudite can totally justify going into some sort of temporally separated recluse for a thousand years, studying.

Since you get a Psicrystal already, take one or two feats that help it, like Psicrystal Containment. That's a very useful feat for Psionic Focus efficiency. Similarly, Psionic Meditation is good for those quick refocusings, which allow you to break action economy (especially with Temporal Acceleration). As I mentioned before, Overchannel is good to boost your ML for those high augmentations. Apart from those, go for the Metapsionic. Quicken and Extend are always useful, Linked Power is great for action economy and UPD workarounds, and Maximize is there when you don't want to roll your dozens of dice of damage. Persistent Power is AWESOME, but only exists in 3.0 or a 3rd party 3.5 book Hyperconscious (written by the same guy who wrote the EPH, so that should say something). Try to get it.

Some lovely powers for lower levels include Synchronicity, Inertial Armor, Vigor, Share Pain, Deja Vu, Share Pain, Control Sound, Ego Whip, Time Hop, Body Adjustment, and Touchsight. Those are some of my favorite lower level powers. At higher levels, you can learn EVERY power. And every spell. For divine spells, find a couple of Geomancers who have Cleric or Druid levels. At high levels gaining those spells will cost you no PP, so long as you use Body Outside Body clones to trace the power and Psychic Chirurgery it into you.

[Tokuhara]

Um... I'm scared *grabs teddy bear*

I thought StP could be done in a way that my party & DM don't want to hang me from a tree by my neck...

The big decision is now between Elan (Immortality/Durability) and Azurin (free essentia to pump into Midnight Augmentation/Psion Killer Mask/Etc.).

And I have the following purely psionic books:

Expanded Psionics
Complete Psionics
Hyperconscience
Arcanus: Psionics Unbound (Another 3rd party book that is basically a partial setting book for Arcanis and is CRAP)

And as for the "Why take PrCs when they cannot do what you already can?" argument, I personally love Crystal Master and saw it as beneficial to my character, especially considering that with the Azurin + Incarnum feats (Psycarnum Crystal, Midnight Augmentation, Psicarnum Infusion) for more Incarnum love. Our group has no meldshapers and no arcane/psionics, and perhaps I can fulfill all three in one single build (StP Erudite who dabbles in incarnum and maybe shapes 1 or 2 soulmelds and uses a few Essentia for pumping those)

[Getsugaru]

Another Race to consider is this: a Kobold known as Tiny VonBigMcLargeHuge.

I have a kobold whose family is, due to backstory, a cross between humans and dragons, and therefore has the [human] and [dragonblooded] subtypes. Ergo, he (and his brother, a backup character in case my current positive energy evolved undead necropolitan kobold dies) can technically qualify for Jotunbrud (since this isn't Faerun, regional feat prereqs are waived).

This post got me to thinking about a rather interesting build:

Male kobold psychic warrior 2 [human, dragonblooded] with compression and expansion, using the web enhancement from RotD and Slight Build. Take Jotunbrud (Races of Faerun) and the Touchstone feat: Sunken City of Pazar (Sandstorm).

He now may elect to count as being Diminutive, Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, Huge, and Gargantuan.

The way he does this?

His actual size is Small. Slight build lets him count as Tiny. Touchstone (alternately: expansion) allows him to count as Medium. Compression gives him Diminutive. Jotunbrud lets him count as Large. Expansion pushes off of Jotunbrud to allow him to count as Huge. Touchstone (springboarding off of both expansion and Jotunbrud) allows him to count as Gargantuan.

At level 7, he can become Fine (compression) and Colossal (expansion).

The DM already approved it, meaning it's legal in my game.
Basically, you're Small sized, but you get the benefits of being as small as fine size, as big as Colossal size, and the drawbacks of neither. NOTE: Check with your DM before using Tiny VonBigMcLargeHuge. Side effects may include DMG, XPH, Boot, heavy things, etc. to the head at high velocity (And one for Jenny and the wimp).:smalltongue:
Also, how is your DM ruling the Erudite's "manifester level cannot equal Erudite manifester level or you lose power learning"? Some rule that it's any manifester level, including prestige classes. All of the DM's I know and have played with, however, read it as it was likely intended: taking levels in Psion, Wilder, and other classes that have their own separate manifesting (i.e., not advancing another class's manifesting) cannot equal your Erudite manifesting, which prestige classes that increase manifesting (like the Erudite's) increase the Erudite's manifester level for this purpose (so an Erudite 5/Anarchic Initiate 10 increasing Erudite/Psion 5 in that order would be fine) I hope that it's the latter in your case...
Another commonly suggested race is the Kalashtar. If you're dead set on the two you asked about, however, then I'd suggest Elan. Immortality and sustenance both rock!

[Psyren]

(Erudite is popular tonight.)

So you have access to both Hyperconscious and Erudite?

Take a look at the Colorless Adept PrC. It's basically Mage of the Arcane Order for Psions, except instead of paying your "spellpool" with spell slots, you pay by "sequestering" (giving up access to) some of your powers known. Well, as an Erudite, you've got powers known to spare; you can sequester situational powers like Detect Remote Viewing and Evade Burst, instead gaining access to useful powers like Psychic Reformation and Decerebrate.

Alternatively, take a look at Hyperconscious' version of the Metamind - instead of sequestering powers for other powers, this one sequesters powers for PP. Again, you have nearly unlimited powers known, so sequestering your highest-level ones is not a problem for you - learn weaker powers as your top-level and sequester them for bonus ammunition, then pick up better powers later. If you enter late enough, this will net you around 153 bonus power points, and you'll still get 9ths.

[Getsugaru]

(Erudite is popular tonight.)

So you have access to both Hyperconscious and Erudite?

Take a look at the Colorless Adept PrC. It's basically Mage of the Arcane Order for Psions, except instead of paying your "spellpool" with spell slots, you pay by "sequestering" (giving up access to) some of your powers known. Well, as an Erudite, you've got powers known to spare; you can sequester situational powers like Detect Remote Viewing and Evade Burst, instead gaining access to useful powers like Psychic Reformation and Decerebrate.

Alternatively, take a look at Hyperconscious' version of the Metamind - instead of sequestering powers for other powers, this one sequesters powers for PP. Again, you have nearly unlimited powers known, so sequestering your highest-level ones is not a problem for you - learn weaker powers as your top-level and sequester them for bonus ammunition, then pick up better powers later. If you enter late enough, this will net you around 153 bonus power points, and you'll still get 9ths.(I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed; definitely better than the traditional "Monk-day" Mondays :smallwink:)

On the topic of your build, might I suggest that you only take 3 or 7 levels of Anarchic Initiate, as the main benefit of the class is the Chaotic Surge, and that's when it grants/advances Wild Surge. Another good dip might be Mind-Mage; reasoning can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14777957). A good feat from the Lords of Madness: Book of Abberations is Mindsight, which asically take telepathy and hits it with some major metamagic. Finally, the Psionic Slayer on the SRD is considered a good Psion prestige class, so you may wish to take a look at it.

Of course, Psyren is one of (if not) the Urpriests of Psionics, so if anything I've said conflicts with anything he has or will have said, he's right.

[Metahuman1]

Huh, couple of things I've always wondered.

What book is Spell to Power Erudite in?

Can you add Incarnum Recharge Trick to get unlimited spells per day?



And yes, while just being a straight full caster is optimal if the above trick works, I'd actually like to use it and a couple of tricks to add more known buffs and touch spells to the Duskblade list and make a Duskblade that never runs out of fuel for channel Arcane spell and Arcane Strike.

[Tokuhara]

(Erudite is popular tonight.)

So you have access to both Hyperconscious and Erudite?

Take a look at the Colorless Adept PrC. It's basically Mage of the Arcane Order for Psions, except instead of paying your "spellpool" with spell slots, you pay by "sequestering" (giving up access to) some of your powers known. Well, as an Erudite, you've got powers known to spare; you can sequester situational powers like Detect Remote Viewing and Evade Burst, instead gaining access to useful powers like Psychic Reformation and Decerebrate.

Alternatively, take a look at Hyperconscious' version of the Metamind - instead of sequestering powers for other powers, this one sequesters powers for PP. Again, you have nearly unlimited powers known, so sequestering your highest-level ones is not a problem for you - learn weaker powers as your top-level and sequester them for bonus ammunition, then pick up better powers later. If you enter late enough, this will net you around 153 bonus power points, and you'll still get 9ths.

So if I stacked Hc Metamind & Colorless Adept on a StP Erudite, what would I want the levels to look like?

[Psyren]

Of course, Psyren is one of (if not) the Urpriests of Psionics, so if anything I've said conflicts with anything he has or will have said, he's right.

*bows*
Urpriest has far more system mastery than I do, so I'll take that as high praise.



What book is Spell to Power Erudite in?

It's in one of the 3.5 Mind's Eye articles. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a)



Can you add Incarnum Recharge Trick to get unlimited spells per day?

Yes, and Incarnum actually has a couple of recharge tricks.


So if I stacked Hc Metamind & Colorless Adept on a StP Erudite, what would I want the levels to look like?

You'd want CA 7 (gets you the "spellpool" all the way up to 9th level) just until you get access to every single generalist power. Keep rotating and coding them all into stones until you have a stone of every one from every book - CPsi, SoS, MoI, Hyp, everywhere. Once you do, PsyReform all your CA levels away, then relevel as a Metamind; while you do, learn all the powers from the stones you made. (You can use Do the Wight Thing/Thought Bottle to regain the xp you lost quickly, or just adventure normally.)

On the second pass, instead of Colorless Adept, you enter Metamind at 10. Now that you know (or will soon know) every general psion/wilder power, can start sequestering all the more useless powers for fuel. (CPsi has a ton of very situational powers - like Detain Ectoplasm and Suppress Schism - that make great fodder for this.) As you level in Metamind, continue sequestering the highest-level and least useful powers you have access to for even more fuel, all the way up to jank like Apopsi.

Your biggest limitation now is your UPD; Soul Crystal and Metaconcert will get you around that.

[Tokuhara]

So something like this:

Elan/Azurin StP Erudite 7/Anarchic Initiate 3/Colorless Adept 7/Metamind 3?

[Psyren]

It wasn't just one build I was suggesting, actually; I meant something more along these lines.

Step 1: Encoding the World

Elan StP Erudite 10/Colorless Adept 7/AI 3

(I went with Elan because this might take you a really long time to pull off, and Azurins have pretty short lifespans. But if you can do this fast then by all means. Warforged are great for this too, and even flavorful - not only are they immortal, but the idea of a psychic robot being an archive of almost every psionic power and spell in D&D is pretty appealing to me. You'd be like a living artifact!)

Remember that Erudites have one more restriction - if you ever have more levels in another class than you have in Erudite, you lose your ability to learn discipline powers (and thus, spells.) So straight Erudite to 10 is key, or you can "weave levels" when your PrC starts to catch up with the base class.

Anyway... By ECL 18 you should have access to every general power, and have coded stones of them all through your sequestration cycles. Store them someplace safe (e.g. manifest Hoard Gullet and swallow them.) You no longer need Colorless Adept at this point, but since you have Hyperconscious available, I have a more fun idea in mind.

Step Two: The Great Hunt

With eons of life available you should have no problem reaching epic levels. When you do, take the Epic Manifestation feat and create an Epic Power; it doesn't matter what it does, so make the cheapest one you can. (You can even make one of the ones straight from the book if you want to stick to printed RAW.) Now you, for all game rule purposes, possess a 10th-level power; this means that your discipline powers (and thus spells) go all the way up to 9th level. Congratulations - you can now learn every arcane spell and psion power that exists. (This includes divine spells made arcane by Alternative Spell Source etc.) Hypercognition (and later, Metafaculty) will get you exactly the info you need to track them all down - which planes to visit and when, which outsiders to bind and when, which ruins to explore and when, etc.

Once you know everything, retrain your Colorless Adept levels via your favorite retraining method. The class you want now is Chronorebel.

Step 3: Playing With Myself

You now know every psionic power and spell in existence, and can time travel thanks to Chronosynchrony. (Or you can use Teleport Through Time if you want.) The goal is to jump back to your past (ML 17) self and teach yourself every power and spell in the game via Psychic Chirurgery; now, your past self knows every power and spell in the game pre-epic. Instruct your past self to perform every step you performed in order without variation, even learning powers and spells that it already knows. You've had centuries if not milennia to plan this out, so as long as you kept accurate track of your steps you should avoid both paradoxes and the Edict of Time.

Your past self will perform all the steps until the moment when you see yourself pop back in time to teach yourself everything that you now know. With the timeline stabilized, you are free to pursue your favorite method of achieving godhood, or simply kick back, relax, and become a psionics professor at the local library/monastery.

[Tokuhara]

It wasn't just one build I was suggesting, actually; I meant something more along these lines.

Step 1: Encoding the World

Elan StP Erudite 10/Colorless Adept 7/AI 3

(I went with Elan because this might take you a really long time to pull off, and Azurins have pretty short lifespans. But if you can do this fast then by all means. Warforged are great for this too, and even flavorful - not only are they immortal, but the idea of a psychic robot being an archive of almost every psionic power and spell in D&D is pretty appealing to me. You'd be like a living artifact!)

Remember that Erudites have one more restriction - if you ever have more levels in another class than you have in Erudite, you lose your ability to learn discipline powers (and thus, spells.) So straight Erudite to 10 is key, or you can "weave levels" when your PrC starts to catch up with the base class.

Anyway... By ECL 18 you should have access to every general power, and have coded stones of them all through your sequestration cycles. Store them someplace safe (e.g. manifest Hoard Gullet and swallow them.) You no longer need Colorless Adept at this point, but since you have Hyperconscious available, I have a more fun idea in mind.

Step Two: The Great Hunt

With eons of life available you should have no problem reaching epic levels. When you do, take the Epic Manifestation feat and create an Epic Power; it doesn't matter what it does, so make the cheapest one you can. (You can even make one of the ones straight from the book if you want to stick to printed RAW.) Now you, for all game rule purposes, possess a 10th-level power; this means that your discipline powers (and thus spells) go all the way up to 9th level. Congratulations - you can now learn every arcane spell and psion power that exists. (This includes divine spells made arcane by Alternative Spell Source etc.) Hypercognition (and later, Metafaculty) will get you exactly the info you need to track them all down - which planes to visit and when, which outsiders to bind and when, which ruins to explore and when, etc.

Once you know everything, retrain your Colorless Adept levels via your favorite retraining method. The class you want now is Chronorebel.

Step 3: Playing With Myself

You now know every psionic power and spell in existence, and can time travel thanks to Chronosynchrony. (Or you can use Teleport Through Time if you want.) The goal is to jump back to your past (ML 17) self and teach yourself every power and spell in the game via Psychic Chirurgery; now, your past self knows every power and spell in the game pre-epic. Instruct your past self to perform every step you performed in order without variation, even learning powers and spells that it already knows. You've had centuries if not milennia to plan this out, so as long as you kept accurate track of your steps you should avoid both paradoxes and the Edict of Time.

Your past self will perform all the steps until the moment when you see yourself pop back in time to teach yourself everything that you now know. With the timeline stabilized, you are free to pursue your favorite method of achieving godhood, or simply kick back, relax, and become a psionics professor at the local library/monastery.

Eww. Just.. Ew...

[sreservoir]

ghostbreaker is almost always nice if it fits, if I'm remembering it properly, though, of course, you're likely to have it unfit if you're doing anything with your levels.

[Getsugaru]

ghostbreaker is almost always nice if it fits, if I'm remembering it properly, though, of course, you're likely to have it unfit if you're doing anything with your levels.

I've never heard of Ghostbreaker. What book is it in?

[Psyren]

I've never heard of Ghostbreaker. What book is it in?

It is also in Hyperconscious. Full BAB and manifesting, and grants turn undead.

[Daftendirekt]

Is it weird that it makes me happy to watch you spout off about psionics, Psyren?

[Psyren]

Is it weird that it makes me happy to watch you spout off about psionics, Psyren?

:smallredface:

I'm glad my ruminations are enjoyable to some.

[Daftendirekt]

It's cool to see somebody so knowledgeable and focused on it hangin' around.