School input

[Zahhak]

OK, there's a whole story leading up to this, but I don't want to get into it. Basically, at this point I've invested some time in a college that is so terribly run and staffed I cannot stand it anymore, and I'm leaving when this semester is done. So, I'm going to go to a different college, that better be freaking better then the craphole I'm at now.

Anyways, I'm looking through the degrees that this new college has, which is slightly more limited then I expected. I've kind of worked my way down to a few degrees in programming (Computer Information Systems BS and BAS and Web Technologies BS, specifically), but I'm not really sure what these degrees cover. I'm familiar with BBC/HTML and some LaTeX, so I'm not walking in completely blind about the subject matter, just mostly blind.

So, basically I was hoping someone could give me direction on what this (http://www.bellevue.edu/degrees/undergraduate/computer-information-systems-bs/index.aspx) and this (http://www.bellevue.edu/degrees/undergraduate/web-technologies-bs/index.aspx) degree cover. My only real requirement for a degree/life path at this point is something I can do freelance so I don't have to put with stupid people if I don't want to.

Thank you.

[Don Julio Anejo]

From my understanding, most computer science degrees generally cover a lot of progamming (both languages AND algorithms) and a lot of math so you can design said programs. Be prepared for linear algebra, matrices and other fun stuff. So if you don't like math... yeah, you're not going to like computer science.

[Grinner]

So, basically I was hoping someone could give me direction on what this (http://www.bellevue.edu/degrees/undergraduate/computer-information-systems-bs/index.aspx) and this (http://www.bellevue.edu/degrees/undergraduate/web-technologies-bs/index.aspx) degree cover. My only real requirement for a degree/life path at this point is something I can do freelance so I don't have to put with stupid people if I don't want to.

You don't get to avoid this in any profession. This is not optional. :smallwink:

[Harugami]

My cousin is a grave digger his only involvement with the stupids is burying them.

Anyway the only difference is one is basically a fancy web design degree and the other is a computer programming degree. both of them entail sitting on your butt in your choice of cubicle or office and staring at a monitor for hours on end trying to figure out what symbol was left out to make the stupid program work.


here (http://robinson.gsu.edu/cis/index.html) and here (http://www.umuc.edu/undergrad/ugprograms/dmwt.cfm)

[Zahhak]

From my understanding, most computer science degrees generally cover a lot of progamming (both languages AND algorithms) and a lot of math so you can design said programs. Be prepared for linear algebra, matrices and other fun stuff. So if you don't like math... yeah, you're not going to like computer science.

LaTeX is a script writing software used mostly in math. My decision to go into programming was partly because I'm pretty sure I can handle the math.


You don't get to avoid this in any profession. This is not optional.

I know several freelance programmers/whatever, and that's part of what makes me think this is a good idea, I can go "oh, you're a giant moron, I'm not taking this job"


Anyway the only difference is one is basically a fancy web design degree and the other is a computer programming degree.

I think that means I'm going with the web design degree!

[Emmerask]

LaTeX is a script writing software used mostly in math. My decision to go into programming was partly because I'm pretty sure I can handle the math.

I know several freelance programmers/whatever, and that's part of what makes me think this is a good idea, I can go "oh, you're a giant moron, I'm not taking this job"

I think that means I'm going with the web design degree!


Programming really is not about that much math anymore, well it depends a bit on exactly what you want to do later on.
I had 1 year (2 terms) of "advanced math" currently I need pretty much none of it, and more then likely have forgotten a good chunk by now (android dev) ^^

As for the the stupid people part, well sadly thats not really going to happen, maybe especially in it and even more so in web design you will find that the people in authority (ie those people that pay you approve the pay you get as a freelancer^^) have ZERO knowledge but act as if they have taught computer science at mit :smallbiggrin:

[SaintRidley]

I know several freelance programmers/whatever, and that's part of what makes me think this is a good idea, I can go "oh, you're a giant moron, I'm not taking this job"



Might not want to do that, since they'll probably kill off your customer base by word of mouth if you do that.

Does this new college have a minor in tact? Tact's a great way of telling idiots how stupid they are without alerting them to the fact that you have just insulted them.

[Zahhak]

I'm on the internet: why do I need to be tactful in hypothetical situations on the internet?

[Slipperychicken]

I know several freelance programmers/whatever, and that's part of what makes me think this is a good idea, I can go "oh, you're a giant moron, I'm not taking this job"


Safer to think, silently and to yourself, "this guy is a giant moron. I will rip him off and make a very fancy presentation so he can recommend me to his moron friends, allowing me to stay in business".

Taking a computer applications class, realizing how frighteningly easily most people are wowed with big numbers and pretty graphs, particularly those ignorant of computer science.

[Zahhak]

"this guy is a giant moron. I will rip him off and make a very fancy presentation so he can recommend me to his moron friends, allowing me to stay in business"

But I don't want to work for morons.


Taking a computer applications class, realizing how frighteningly easily most people are wowed with big numbers and pretty graphs, particularly those ignorant of computer science.

And pretty graphs really just comes down to understanding how to use excel.

[Grinner]

But I don't want to work for morons.

Unless you become some kind of legend in the world of web design, you won't get much choice in the matter. Gotta take what work you can get, or starve.

Unless it's a clueless upstart, in which case they won't be paying that much anyway.

[Zahhak]

I swear I know people who are free lance web designers.

[Don Julio Anejo]

I'm going to throw my hat with the people that say you can't avoid morons no matter how much you may want to. Why? Many (if not most) of the people hiring you will likely be morons by your definition. They will have no idea what they want, will try to pay you less than you're worth, will change deadlines or requirements on a whim and at the end still put the blame on you.


I swear I know people who are free lance web designers.
There are. Quite a few, probably. But people hiring them? Good luck with that. I used to think most people are generally smart and gave them benefit of the doubt. Then I had to work sales (as a part time job) for almost two years... Trust me, after 6 months of freelancing, you will think everyone is a moron until proven otherwise.

At least working for a company, the morons will be a known quantity and you're guaranteed an income.

[SaintRidley]

I swear I know people who are free lance web designers.

And they probably don't turn down work from morons because otherwise they can't eat.

[Zahhak]

Why? Many (if not most) of the people hiring you will likely be morons by your definition. They will have no idea what they want, will try to pay you less than you're worth, will change deadlines or requirements on a whim and at the end still put the blame on you

That is actually a hell of an improvement over the crap I've dealt with. And I'm fine with skipping the odd meal.

And why are we even talking about this? Basically nothing to do with what I asked.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Personal opinion; if you want to avoid idiots, be an actual programmer instead. This way, your clients will usually have at least a basic idea of what they want, and you're going to be judged based on how well your code works/does what it's designed to do.

With web design? More and more people are starting to think they can do it on their own; programs like Dreamweaver make it much easier, there are modifiable and pretty good looking templates you can buy for like $20-60 and you're more likely to get more blame. Your skills are also less transferable. Chances are you'll either end up coding lots of PHP/SQL/Java, or trying to justify to your clients why they should pay you $500-1500 to make a proper website as opposed to just ripping off a template and sticking their info in there.

[warty goblin]

LaTeX is a script writing software used mostly in math. My decision to go into programming was partly because I'm pretty sure I can handle the math.


LaTeX is used to write math, but unless there's a massive development out there which I haven't heard of, it doesn't actually do the math. For that you want Mathematica or Maple or maybe R. Even those are, at least in my experience, mostly used for applications and number crunching. The actual proofy bits a person still has to do themselves.

LaTeX is also vile devilspawn sent to cause suffering amonst humankind, but that's a separate issue.

[KillianHawkeye]

Computer Information Systems is kinda like the underachieving brother of Computer Science. Yeah, you'll learn some programming and web design in there, but it's not the same. If you're really keen on programming, I recommend staying in CompSci.

[Alejandro]

This Oatmeal comic on web design does a good job of making its point.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell

You don't get to avoid morons unless you're independently wealthy, and even then, being wealthy attracts morons.

[warty goblin]

This Oatmeal comic on web design does a good job of making its point.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell

You don't get to avoid morons unless you're independently wealthy, and even then, being wealthy attracts morons.

It was one of my key life realizations* that the asses and idiots are, with very few exceptions, uniformly distributed across profession, paygrade and intelligence levels. As you go up the ladder they're just smarter and better dressed idiots and asses.

The good news is that they aren't uniformly distributed across institutions or workplace cultures. Play your cards right, pick well, and you can avoid them for the most part.

*The other one being that I'm somebody else's idiot ass.