Cold-based Sorceror - any ideas?

[doc neon]

Hey playground!

Since I've recently passed on DMing duty temporarily, I'm working on a character for a low-op party, consisting of a Halfling Rogue 4, an Elf Hexblade 4, and a Lesser Aasimar Paladin 4. I will, fittingly enough, start at level 4. My current character concept is of a sorceror, coming from the frigid northlands (because someone always comes from the frigid northlands) with a focus on ice-based spells. The culture is quasi-Celtic/Anglo-Saxon. (I just read Beowulf, so I'm excited about it.)

If you have any thoughts or suggestions at all, throw them out there. But a few more specific questions;
I'm thinking Human for race. Is there any more appropriate races?
Are there any good martial classes that work well with sorceror that I could dip for a level or two, just for flavor?
Can you think of any nice, cheap magic items that work well with an ice theme?
Finally, I'm somewhat worried about outshining the rest of the party, being the only full caster. Any suggestions, besides casting lots of buffs and debuffs as opposed to direct damage?

I do actually have Frostburn, and I'm looking through it, but feel free to suggest something from it, if anything stands out.

[ArcturusV]

Well... and this sounds crazy, but how about switching the elemental focus/setting? I mean if you're in a land covered by ice and snow developing powers to make more ice and snow, against local monsters who are generally resistant to ice/snow seems off. I know it's typically how games do it. But it always struck me as off. Maybe I'm crazy.

So having the Pyromancer from up north who brings the Fire That Should Not Be to the frozen tundra. Or the Ice Mage from the heart of the vast desert wastes. Somehow it just seems more flavorful to me.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The Druid spell list is way better at cold spells than the Sorcerer/Wizard list. In a low-op game, maybe consider Spirit Shaman (CD) instead.

Make your party each buy you a 1st level Pearl of Power and go in thirds for a Lesser Rod of Extend for you. Get your own Lesser Rod of Extend of course. For one 1st level spell slot each day you can put Extended Snowsight on your entire party, and cast Extended Obscuring Snow.

Here's my standard Sorcerer advice (http://alt.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267805#4).

Even a Cleric is better at cold spells, especially with the Cold domain and spontaneous domain casting ACF for it. Persistent Ice Axe just wins. Get the Winter domain and you can still do the above Snowsight + Obscuring Snow trick.

[HunterOfJello]

You can dip 1 level into Marshall to get a powerful aura of your choice. (I really love the charisma bonus to overcome spell resistance bonus.) Crusader 2 is also an option, although Crusaders are designed to stand next to enemies while Sorcerers are not. There is always the option of Paladin, but... bleh.


Definitely go into Frost Mage and grab a Penguin familiar. Why a penguin familiar? Because it's a penguin familiar.

[doc neon]

Oh, sorry, I was a bit misleading.

The game doesn't take place in a primarily ice/snow setting. I'm just talking about the section of the campaign world that the character would be from.

In response to the druid or cleric advice, thanks a lot, but I'm not really looking for much power in this build, and I'm not envisioning all spells known being ice. I will take a look, though. How would favored soul work out, with spontaneous casting?

Frost Mage does look enticing, thanks. I was never sure about how "+1 to existing spellcaster class" worked. Do you essentially get all of the benefits of the sorceror class besides familiar bonuses?

[Spuddles]

Well... and this sounds crazy, but how about switching the elemental focus/setting? I mean if you're in a land covered by ice and snow developing powers to make more ice and snow, against local monsters who are generally resistant to ice/snow seems off. I know it's typically how games do it. But it always struck me as off. Maybe I'm crazy.

So having the Pyromancer from up north who brings the Fire That Should Not Be to the frozen tundra. Or the Ice Mage from the heart of the vast desert wastes. Somehow it just seems more flavorful to me.

I've always felt the same way. The white wyrm isn't king over the frost giants because he breathes ice- it's because he has a staff of fire.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The Druid list really has the absolute best specific cold spells, and elemental spells in general. Creeping Cold (especially Lesser Rod of Extended), Chill Metal (should make opponents drop weapons), Sleet Storm, Ice Storm, Call Avalanche, etc. Spirit Shaman is basically a divine Sorcerer that picks from the Druid spell list, but can repick its spells known every day.

[Screech-*Lime*]

*snip* I straight-up replied to the wrong thread. This is awkward.

[Mato]

Click on Cold Caster (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=477.msg2227#msg2227).

[The Viscount]

Frost Mage does look enticing, thanks. I was never sure about how "+1 to existing spellcaster class" worked. Do you essentially get all of the benefits of the sorceror class besides familiar bonuses?

Pretty much, yeah. If you for example are sorcerer 7/some class 1 and that class has "+1 to existing spellcasting class" then you cast just like an 8th level sorcerer. Have you considered taking a reserve feat from Complete Mage? Something like Winter's Blast fits a cold-themed sorcerer well, and reserve feats work great with spontaneous casters.

[Namfuak]

Frost Mage does look enticing, thanks. I was never sure about how "+1 to existing spellcaster class" worked. Do you essentially get all of the benefits of the sorceror class besides familiar bonuses?

If you want to offset the penalty to your familiar, take an ACF that gets rid of it (Metamagic Specialist from PHBII is pretty good if you are planning on using metamagic) and take "Obtain Familiar" from Complete Arcane, which gives you a familiar that gets levels based on your character level rather than your sorcerer levels (technically "levels in classes that allow you to cast arcane spells," but if your DM argues that prestige classes don't count because they only progress other classes, he's being intentionally difficult).

"Snowcasting" from Frostburn may be useful to you, if you decide to take metamagic feats that focus on cold.

[DMVerdandi]

Thirding Spirit Shaman.
Just do it man...

Yes, you said you weren't looking for TO levels of strength, and this is us telling you that the spirit shaman isn't. It casts of the druid list, and has a better casting mechanic that the druid, but casting isn't why the druid is SUPER strong anyway. It's casting as an animal.

Sorcerer has worse fluff anyway, and if you are going for the whole frigid foreigner thing, it is even worse. Spirit shaman has you talking to your ancestors in valhalla, communing with dead ice giants from juntunheim for magic, and telling epic tales of warriors past...cause they are standing right next to you talking about it.
Sounds cooler than "im special and good at metaphysics cause im an artist!"
Nope.

The sorcerer is also basically locked into the spells that he chooses, and since you are coming to us for help, you aren't already on the up and up about what spells are best anyway. Because of that, being forced to keep the same spells is not advisable. Sorcerer, like fighter is definitely a hidden firepit. Classes actually gain difficulty in gameplay as they go down tiers.
Book keeping? Not really, but the loss in effectiveness makes it harder.

As far as the Spirit shaman goes, Every day it can change it's spells known. It casts like a sorcerer, but prepares it's spells every day. That is MASSIVE variety and variability.
Also,Divine casting doesn't get in the way of weapons and armor, and generally doesn't need much in the way of material components. It is the superior casting source.
That on top of having D8 hd, and Medium bab?
C'mon.

As for feats, Definitely pick up Piercing cold.
For weapons? A morphing Spear.
And get a parka for Steez.

Icy shaman? Kind of reminds me of Horohoro

[rot42]

Silverbrow Humans (Dragon Magic) have a silver dragon ancestor, which fits with a [Cold] theme. They can select the Draconic Aura feat (same book), to give you and all your allies energy resistance (good for everybody) or a bonus to spell save DCs (great for you) based on level. Also look at blue ice armor in Frostburn (page 80) - arcane spell failure does not apply to [Cold] spells cast while wearing it. You will want some way to avoid the numbness from wearing a big block of ice strapped to your chest all day; the least Crystal of Adaptation (Magic Item Compendium) is probably the cheapest. Unfortunately, most of your de/buffs are not [Cold] unless you find a way to use Snowcasting (Frostburn) on everything or specialize in Shivering Touch (Frostburn again; deals a lot Dexterity damage and often disliked by DMs).

Rather than dipping a martial class, you might consider the Duskblade (PHB II) as filling the "sword guy wot casts" archetype. Failing that, there is the Battle Sorcerer variant (Unearthed Arcana; gains armor and hit points, loses spells known and per day; I do not like it, but you might). Mechanically your best martial dip is probably Warblade (Tome of Battle), but there are several nice cold-themed soulmelds if you dip Totemist (Magic of Incarnum); either will put you at least a spell level behind a full Wizard, but can be fun.

[Aasimar]

Have him sneeze a lot, have a big, red, runny nose, constantly wrapped in a blanket with a bedwarmer tied to his head, also, big fuzzy slippers.

[Mongrel]

You could always multiclass into a cleric or druid if you want to keep the sorc class but want access to the cleric/druid cold spells. There are prestige classes that support this (Mystic Theurge for cleric/sorc (in DMG) and Arcane Hierophant for sorc/druid (in Savage Species)), and such a multiclass would add some of that martial ability you mentioned you wanted. Those prestige classes add +1 level of spellcasting to both your arcane and divine spellcasting classes each level. The Arcane Hierophant even gives some extra goodies, like a combined animal companion/familiar.

[Norin]

How about Energy Substitution [cold]?

[doc neon]

Thanks for all of the suggestions, everyone.

I ended up going Silverbrow Human Sorcerer, with Dragonblood substitution levels, and I'll start going into Frost Mage at level 6, and pick up the Winter's Blast reserve feat. Other classes were mechanically better, I know, but I'm happy with the finished product.

[magwaaf]

the real problem i have is the serious lack of cold spells. there's ways to make spells energy types change and stuff but they should have made more. There's a pathfinder metamagic feat "Rime Spell" that i want to use.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/rime-spell-metamagic

i would use it for aoe spells to help my melee fighters be more efficient tying up enemies and the like.

[Alienist]

Snowball Swarm