Subverted psion minon question

[AthasianWarlock]

The subverted psion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20051125a) states I could at level 10 (psion 7/ subverted psion 3) gain a minon. It states " The base creature's original Hit Dice or levels cannot exceed one half your total character level." So this means I can make a half oger vampire since it is a monstrous humanoid with 5 levels of something like Psychic Warrior. He would have a +8 level adj. I won't go into specifics (like his +16 str modifer...), but does the +8 level adj count towards the "The base creature's...levels" It does not say "effective character level" and he has no levels of monstorus humanoid?

[ArcturusV]

RAW? Probably some loophole which makes that cool. RAI? I can't imagine it is. ECL is after all something where you presume a character is X levels higher than it actually is for a variety of effects. At the very least I'd expect someone to throw something at you if you seriously tried to end up with something like an Orge Vampire Half Dragon Draconic Celestial Fey Born Serpentine... etc character who has an ECL in the Epic Levels but only 5 Hit Dice for this effect.

[Cog]

No.

'Tainted minion' is a specific template from Heroes of Horror, which is why the class ability gives a page reference. If the creature is a vampire before you try to make it a minion, the minion template can't go on it; if you make it a minion first, it's already undead, and so can't become a vampire.

There are a lot of other templates you could probably apply to your minion instead, true, but expect books to be flung your way if you try to abuse it. Sure, the ability is written badly, but that's not a very good excuse for making your character's pets better than other people's main characters, is it?

[Urpriest]

It's explicitly based on Hit Dice, not ECL or CR (as a matter of fact it can't be based on ECL, since Tainted Minion gives LA --). That said, Ogre isn't an option since they can't gain the template in question. But yeah, nothing stops you from layering on other templates as long as you stick to humanoids or monstrous humanoids.

[AthasianWarlock]

No.

'Tainted minion' is a specific template from Heroes of Horror, which is why the class ability gives a page reference. If the creature is a vampire before you try to make it a minion, the minion template can't go on it; if you make it a minion first, it's already undead, and so can't become a vampire.



But a vampire is a monstrous humanoid. Becoming a vampire does not change that. "Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to undead (augmented humanoid or monstrous humanoid). Do not recalculate base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. Size is unchanged."

[AthasianWarlock]

Ogre isn't an option since they can't gain the template in question.

Half oger is a monstrous humanoid from races of destiny.

[Urpriest]

Half oger is a monstrous humanoid from races of destiny.

No, they're giants. How did you get the impression they were monstrous humanoids?


But a vampire is a monstrous humanoid. Becoming a vampire does not change that. "Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to undead (augmented humanoid or monstrous humanoid). Do not recalculate base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. Size is unchanged."

The augmented subtype means that they keep their original BAB and saves. They're still an undead.

[Flickerdart]

The subverted psion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20051125a) states I could at level 10 (psion 7/ subverted psion 3) gain a minon. It states " The base creature's original Hit Dice or levels cannot exceed one half your total character level." So this means I can make a half oger vampire since it is a monstrous humanoid with 5 levels of something like Psychic Warrior. He would have a +8 level adj. I won't go into specifics (like his +16 str modifer...), but does the +8 level adj count towards the "The base creature's...levels" It does not say "effective character level" and he has no levels of monstorus humanoid?
A Half-Ogre Vampire is not a monstrous humanoid, and cannot become a tainted minion. There are precious few templates that can be applied to humanoids or monstrous humanoids without changing their type.

[ArcturusV]

Typically though Undead lose the "Humanoid" Or "Monstrous Humanoid" type when they become Undead. When I look up a random undead monster even if it's a Template it usually includes the line "The creature's type changes to Undead".

[Venger]

tainted minion can only be applied to humanoids and monstrous humanoids. half-ogre is a giant, and thus ineligible for the template. the answer is no. vampire template, as mentioned, would change the type to undead, and thus make it ineligible anyway.

[AthasianWarlock]

So oger voidmind works.

[Venger]

So oger voidmind works.

no, it doesn't. the voidmind template doesn't change your type to monstrous humanoid; the sample monsters, grimlocks, are already monstrous humanoids.

[AthasianWarlock]

I suppose paragon creature works though.

[AthasianWarlock]

Secondly where is the minon coming from, am I turning somebody into a minon or am I creating it from my mind?

[Venger]

Secondly where is the minon coming from, am I turning somebody into a minon or am I creating it from my mind?

you turn someone into it, you don't just pick a monster, you need to go out and adventure and turn them, like a necromancer