Warforged Vampire

[GigglesO]

First of all it is debatable if a warforged can be come a vampire... but assuming he could be...

1: What would happen if he is staked through the heart...
2: What would happen if he was in the sunlight...
3: What would happen if trying to cross or submerged in water...
4: What about garlic and holy symbols/ mirrors

I know warforged can't smell so...

And how would this affect him if he was a warforged juggernaut?

[Chilingsworth]

First, it's not debatable if a warforged can be made into a vampire.:smalltongue:


"Vampire" is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature).
source (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm)

If one could, though- I'd assume it would have all the standard weaknesses, possibly refluffed.

If the warforged was a juggernaut before conversion, then it would be doubly incovertable, since conversion generally requires taking con drain, which juggernauts are immune to. If it became one afterwards, Well, it would still probably have the standard vampire weaknesses. However, since we're talking about an adamantine body warforged here, when thrown into water, it would sink before it died.

[GigglesO]

since conversion generally requires taking con drain, which juggernauts are immune to. .

They are not subject to con drain, doesn't mean they can't take it if they want to.

Also garlic thy can't smell, and the sunlight/ mirrors are mind affecting or????

[Tanuki Tales]

In a 3.P game a Warforged can become a Vampire since the template can be applied to any living creature with 5 or more HD.

With that in mind...

1. I'd assume the Warforged would be immune to that weakness since it lacks a heart.
2. Same as what would happen to a regular Vampire.
3. See above.
4. See above.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

There's a Vampire Dragon template in the Draconomicon, there's even Blood Fiend (FF) for Outsiders, but there is no Vampire template that can be applied to Constructs, living or not. Bloodless creatures are not appetizing to a vampire anyway.

None of a vampire's weaknesses are mind-affecting, because if they were then as an undead it would be immune already. I haven't seen it stated anywhere that Warforged have no sense of smell, so garlic will still keep them at bay. In order to become a vampire, a Warforged would have needed to acquire a functioning heart, so he's still vulnerable to a stake through it. Sunlight and running water would also be just as effective against one.

[avr]

Actually, I think it's implied that warforged need a specific magic item to be able to smell, so 'Vampires cannot tolerate the strong odor of garlic and will not enter an area laced with it.' wouldn't likely apply to them. I can't see why the other weaknesses wouldn't apply if they somehow became a vampire. Running water has nothing to do with the vampire drowning, for example.

[GigglesO]

Now what about a psychoactive skin and vampires/sunlight?
A psychoactive skin completely covers the body of the wearer... so would you still be considered to be "in sunlight"?

edit: And yes there is a mask item that says you need it to smell so it is highly prized among warforged.

[avr]

The skin wouldn't break line of effect, so yes toasty vampire.

[Tanuki Tales]

Vampires also create spawn through energy draining...so...you don't need blood.

[GigglesO]

Vampires also create spawn through energy draining...so...you don't need blood.

Warforged are actually immune to energy drain....

[Tanuki Tales]

Warforged are actually immune to energy drain....

Which is tangential if you're playing 3.5, since Warforged can't become Vampires in that edition.

[Crake]

In a 3.P game a Warforged can become a Vampire since the template can be applied to any living creature with 5 or more HD.

With that in mind...

1. I'd assume the Warforged would be immune to that weakness since it lacks a heart.
2. Same as what would happen to a regular Vampire.
3. See above.
4. See above.

If you read the living construct subtype, the warforged is only considered living for spells and spells alone. For all other intents and purposes the warforged is not considered a living creature and thus would not qualify even under pathfinder rules.

[Tanuki Tales]

If you read the living construct subtype, the warforged is only considered living for spells and spells alone. For all other intents and purposes the warforged is not considered a living creature and thus would not qualify even under pathfinder rules.

It has a Constitution score. That's the very basic definition of being alive.

[GigglesO]

It has a Constitution score. That's the very basic definition of being alive.

Yep its a living construct, and therefore can have anything that allows it to be applied to a living template.

[mattie_p]

It depends on your definition of "living." The glossary defines it as such:
Any creature with a Constitution score is a living creature. Constructs and undead are not living creatures.

Warforged characters have the living construct subtype (which, see above, is contradictory). The living construct subtype never explicitly defines the possessor as living, although you can easily construe the defined word "living" in the subtype name as granting that property, and just as easily not. YMMV.

[Tanuki Tales]

It depends on your definition of "living." The glossary defines it as such:

Warforged characters have the living construct subtype (which, see above, is contradictory). The living construct subtype never explicitly defines the possessor as living, although you can easily construe the defined word "living" in the subtype name as granting that property, and just as easily not. YMMV.

The fact the word "living" is in the subtype's name is not what tells me that a Warforged is alive. It's the following:

It has a Constitution score.
It's a valid target for any spell that targets a living creature. The fact that this is followed up by "as well as by those that target constructs" means that a Warforged is a living creature first and a construct second.
"The unusual physical construction of warforged makes them vulnerable to certain spells and effects that normally don’t affect living creatures." Once again, the rules text calls them out as living creatures.
"A warforged responds slightly differently from other living creatures when reduced to 0 hit points." Again, the rules text calling it living.
"As a living construct, a warforged can be raised or resurrected." This one is more arguable, which is why I list it here in a lower position, since there are living creatures that can't be raised or resurrected. But non-living creatures definitely can't be.

I don't see how you could argue a Warforged as not being a living creature.

[Steward]

You can argue anything you want in D&D! Isn't that the point of 95% of this subforum?

[awa]

Are you asking for a raw answer or a house rule answer?
becuase by raw he gets all the weakness. Some templates don't make sense if you think to hard about them for example a vampire tri kree could be staked through the heart even though insects have no hearts.

as for house rules


cant see how being a construct vampire would affect his vulnerability to holy symbols.
of course there is one way a warforged could have a heart and thus have it staked
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FU6SWQMX3U

[mattie_p]

I don't see how you could argue a Warforged as not being a living creature.

I happen to agree with you, but the D&D definition of living (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_living&alpha=L) is pretty clear. Anything with a constitution score is. Any construct is not. So ... living constructs both are and are not living.


You can argue anything you want in D&D! Isn't that the point of 95% of this subforum?

Yes, it is.

[Tanuki Tales]

I happen to agree with you, but the D&D definition of living (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_living&alpha=L) is pretty clear. Anything with a constitution score is. Any construct is not. So ... living constructs both are and are not living.

Except the Eberron materials are the primary source for any rules concerning Warforged and thus they trump the general rules from the Core source books.

[KillianHawkeye]

Except the Eberron materials are the primary source for any rules concerning Warforged and thus they trump the general rules from the Core source books.

Really? Have the Eberron books redefined the term "living," then?

[Jane_Smith]

Hm, you could just ask your dm to make a specialized template for the warforged itself for a "Bloodforged". I believe in one book there was a golem to hextor powered entirely by blood inside an iron suit. Imagine it; you could have fangs crafted to draw blood, a combustion engine that burns blood and ichor, puss, etc to empower you for superhuman bursts of strength and endurance and a form of nanite system that is fueled by it for regeneration. Youd gain special attacks like the ability to spray scolding hot blood from your hands/eyes/crotch/toes and the ability to inject it into an undead creature to heal it.

[Pesimismrocks]

Firstly, you cannot take the template, living or not as warforged are constructs not humanoids or monstrous humanoids, and so the DM would have to houserule it. He would have to decide which vampire rules apply.
Generaly I would say that rules on sunlight, mirrors and holy crooses are the same.
I think that the stake wouldn't work as he lacks any form of heart.
Garlic is debaitable but I think it would work in the same way.

[Tanuki Tales]

Really? Have the Eberron books redefined the term "living," then?

Now you know that I was referencing Warforged as Constructs and not the term living.

[Baron Corm]

Hm, you could just ask your dm to make a specialized template for the warforged itself for a "Bloodforged". I believe in one book there was a golem to hextor powered entirely by blood inside an iron suit. Imagine it; you could have fangs crafted to draw blood, a combustion engine that burns blood and ichor, puss, etc to empower you for superhuman bursts of strength and endurance and a form of nanite system that is fueled by it for regeneration. Youd gain special attacks like the ability to spray scolding hot blood from your hands/eyes/crotch/toes and the ability to inject it into an undead creature to heal it.

A warforged powered by pus that spews blood out of its crotch, why did no one think of this before?!

OT:

1. As normal. Undead are also immune to criticals, so a construct would have some sort of replacement in the correct spot just like undead do.
2. As normal. A warforged's armor is his skin, it is a part of his body, so it would offer no extra protection against the sun.
3. As normal.
4. I'd agree with immunity to garlic if it's simply nearby, but he would likely have aversion to being smeared with it. Holy symbols/mirrors should be the same as a normal vampire.

Just my random opinions. A warforged vampire wouldn't make much sense to me, as vampires are very... biology-based. But if I had one in a game that got struck with the curse, that's how I'd deal with it. Just adapt the rules to make them all work.

[Scow2]

I happen to agree with you, but the D&D definition of living (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_living&alpha=L) is pretty clear. Anything with a constitution score is. Any construct is not. So ... living constructs both are and are not living.
Living Construct and Construct are different creature types. Warforged are living creatures without exception. They're just not "quite" as alive as other living creatures.


Of course, I still have a hard time imagining a Warforged Vampire, but it would actually be pretty terrifying.

[hamishspence]

I recall people pointing out in the past that Warforged can have half-dragon applied- because it's "any living" - same with the Dragon Disciple PRC.

[Tanuki Tales]

Of course, I still have a hard time imagining a Warforged Vampire, but it would actually be pretty terrifying.

The wood that it was built from came from a tree that had grown fat on the blood of an executed clan of vampires?

[mattie_p]

Living Construct and Construct are different creature types. Warforged are living creatures without exception. They're just not "quite" as alive as other living creatures.

The underlined is incorrect. Constructs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#constructType) are a type. Living Constructs (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_livingconstructsubtype&alpha=L) are a subtype. Warforged are Constructs with the Living Construct subtype.

As constructs, they explicitly do not meet the definition of living. As creatures with a constitution score, they explicitly do meet the definition of living.

I'm really trying to explain this as best I can, but the definition of living is pretty clear, and warforged are not well described. Yes, I agree that having the word "living" in the subtype name is pretty clear. But the subtype definition never explicitly states the creatures are living, it only describes the differences between the subtype as compared with constructs and living creatures. It would have been better, though, if WoTC had said something like:


Unlike other constructs, a living construct is a living creature.

[super dark33]

A-blah! A-blah!
I'm going to suck your oil!

I will use this.

[Tanuki Tales]

You know, I have to love how inconsistent WoTC can be when doing their work. The Rules Compendium makes mention of the Deathless type, which was introduced in the varying Eberron material, but they make no mention of the Living Construct subtype anywhere.

The only reason I can think of this is that, since Warforged are the only creatures with the subtype, it'd be too specific to include in a generalized explanation of the rules.

[lunar2]

living constructs are both alive and not alive, according to the definition of living.

so, anything that explicitly works on living creatures works on them, because they are alive. for example, the half-dragon template can be applied to any living creature, which a warforged counts as because they have a constitution score, and are therefore alive. yes, it needs refluffing to explain how a constructed creature is a half-dragon (built out of dragon parts, probably) but mechanically there is no issue.

anything that does not work specifically against non-living creatures does not work on them, because they are not alive.

you treat them as whatever is most appropriate to the situation.

that said, only incarnate construct warforged can become vampires.

[Tanuki Tales]

that said, only incarnate construct warforged can become vampires.

Unless you're playing 3.P, of course.

[lunar2]

You know, I have to love how inconsistent WoTC can be when doing their work. The Rules Compendium makes mention of the Deathless type, which was introduced in the varying Eberron material, but they make no mention of the Living Construct subtype anywhere.

The only reason I can think of this is that, since Warforged are the only creatures with the subtype, it'd be too specific to include in a generalized explanation of the rules.

there's a template in magic of incarnum that turns a regular construct into a living construct.

[Urpriest]

You know, I have to love how inconsistent WoTC can be when doing their work. The Rules Compendium makes mention of the Deathless type, which was introduced in the varying Eberron material, but they make no mention of the Living Construct subtype anywhere.

The only reason I can think of this is that, since Warforged are the only creatures with the subtype, it'd be too specific to include in a generalized explanation of the rules.

Deathless predates Eberron by quite a wide margin, being introduced with the Book of Exalted Deeds near the beginning of 3.5. It was probably included because it's simply much older.

[Scow2]

I thought there was a statement saying Warforged couldn't be turned into Undead Creatures somewhere, which would preclude it from becoming a vampire. But I can't find it.

It could become a Half-dragon through acquiring the template, given that Pathfinder changed Half-Dragon creation from being caused by indiscriminate breeding practices to instead being created by strange magical experiments.


The wood that it was built from came from a tree that had grown fat on the blood of an executed clan of vampires?
Not likely. Instead, it's a Warforged that ran afoul of dark magic and was turned into a vampire.

[GigglesO]

I thought there was a statement saying Warforged couldn't be turned into Undead Creatures somewhere, which would preclude it from becoming a vampire. But I can't find it.

It could become a Half-dragon through acquiring the template, given that Pathfinder changed Half-Dragon creation from being caused by indiscriminate breeding practices to instead being created by strange magical experiments.


Not likely. Instead, it's a Warforged that ran afoul of dark magic and was turned into a vampire.

See this is why I was asking if anyone knew more about this, because it is a magical disease. Also, one can have lychanthropy and be a vampire at the same time. If you were a half dragon before this you could be all three.

[JBento]

See this is why I was asking if anyone knew more about this, because it is a magical disease. Also, one can have lychanthropy and be a vampire at the same time. If you were a half dragon before this you could be all three.

There's a hierarchy of type-templating somewhere, which determines what type-chaging you can apply to what - it may have been on Savage Species, or it may have not :smallsigh:. IIRC, Construct and Undead were in the top tier, which meant that you couldn't apply a template that changed type to either a Construct or an Undead.

Maybe it has changed in Pathfinder, but at least in 3.5, being a Vampire isn't a disease - vampirism isn't a thing. Also, no, you can't have lycanthropy and be a vampire, because lycanthropy IS a disease, and therefore gives Fortitude saves, which makes Undead immune to it. You CAN be a lycanthrope and a vampire, though, if you're a natural lycanthrope (in which case you don't have lycanthropy, you just infect people with it).

[hamishspence]

IIRC, Construct and Undead were in the top tier, which meant that you couldn't apply a template that changed type to either a Construct or an Undead.

It was Savage Species. I'm pretty sure you could apply a low-tier template to a high tier creature- it just didn't change the creature's type.

So a half-troll dragon was still a Dragon, not a Giant.

[JBento]

It was Savage Species. I'm pretty sure you could apply a low-tier template to a high tier creature- it just didn't change the creature's type.

So a half-troll dragon was still a Dragon, not a Giant.

Could be. It's been ages since I've touched my copy. Someone with access to it might want to confirm either way, assuming it's even relevant to a PF discussion.

[Larkas]

The Type Pyramid, pgs. 142-144 of Savage Species, in case anyone wanted the specific pages it could be found.

[aphoticConniver]

I wouldn't allow the specific "Vampire" template per-say, but I'd allow a refluffing of sorts. A vampire that drains energy, be it electrical or life, as well as the usual sprouting claws, fangs, etc. Sort of like NOS-4-A2, if anyone gets the reference. And probably without gaining the Undead type, and losing the Living Construct subtype instead.

[Leon]

I vant to suck your hydraulic fluid....

[Talderas]

I vant to suck your hydraulic fluid....

Maybe the warforged vampire feeds on used tranny fluids.

[lunar2]

Maybe the warforged vampire feeds on used tranny fluids.

that just sounds wrong. on several levels.


There's a hierarchy of type-templating somewhere, which determines what type-chaging you can apply to what - it may have been on Savage Species, or it may have not :smallsigh:. IIRC, Construct and Undead were in the top tier, which meant that you couldn't apply a template that changed type to either a Construct or an Undead.

Maybe it has changed in Pathfinder, but at least in 3.5, being a Vampire isn't a disease - vampirism isn't a thing. Also, no, you can't have lycanthropy and be a vampire, because lycanthropy IS a disease, and therefore gives Fortitude saves, which makes Undead immune to it. You CAN be a lycanthrope and a vampire, though, if you're a natural lycanthrope (in which case you don't have lycanthropy, you just infect people with it).

and then you get incarnate construct that throws all that out the window, by specifically changing constructs to humanoids.

[Larkas]

and then you get incarnate construct that throws all that out the window, by specifically changing constructs to humanoids.

It is described in Savage Species, and is specifically called out as an exception to the rule.

[Urpriest]

That said, the Type Pyramid was a 3.0 thing. 3.5 didn't include it, despite including other Savage Species innovations, so I think it's reasonable to argue it simply doesn't exist anymore.

Undead Warforged certainly do exist, by the way. They're called Woeforged, and were never statted out.

[Chilingsworth]

Where are the woeforged mentioned?

[Urpriest]

Where are the woeforged mentioned?

Forge of War, I think. There's very little info on them.