Maneuver Selection for IL 11 Swordsage

[Phelix-Mu]

Alright, so in a couple levels, my grey elf Int-based Monk17/Conjurer1/Abj.Champ5 will be picking up swordsage levels (sub-op disclaimer: I know the build is sub-op, but it is plenty for the current campaign). She is focused on movement and is the main melee for the party, and damage output is already quite good (greater mighty wallop). A key tactic is teleportation, with Sun School synergy. Currently she uses Abrupt Jaunt (PHB2 Conjurer ACF) to good effect, and she'll shortly have access to 10' steps instead of 5' steps. Her speed is 220', thanks to the coolness of epic.

Current Feats:
1st- Carmendine Monk, Imp. Unarmed Strike(B), Stunning Fist(B)
2nd- Deflect Arrows(B)
3rd- Weapon Finesse
6th- Knowledge Devotion, Combat Reflexes(B, DM permission)
9th- Imp. Natural Attack (unarmed strike)
12th- Sun School
15th- Combat Casting
18th- Obtain Familiar, Scribe Scroll
21st- Exceptional Deflection

So what maneuvers would you suggest? Apparently (thanks, Curmudgeon), I have six maneuvers known of up to 6th level, and one stance of 1st level. Just interested in what you all would suggest.

[mattie_p]

Although Curmudgeon is absolutely correct on the RAW of one first level stance, you might want to ask if you have access to a 6th level stance. I understand this is a commonly applied house rule.

Avoid stone dragon maneuvers, other than mountain hammer line if you feel the need. Desert wind is a trap - too many things are fire immune in epic. Shadow hand is almost always nice, as is setting sun. Due to maneuver pre-reqs, you will want to focus on probably two schools at most.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

It's actually not RAW that you can only pick 1st level stances at 1st class level. What it actually says is that if you intend to take levels in a martial adept class, you get a 1st level stance as a 1st level character, even if you don't take an initiator class at 1st level. Yes, it's completely absurd to try to draw a RAW argument from what's obviously only intended to apply to 1st level martial adepts, and that's just as absurd as restricting someone to a 1st level stance when multiclassing into a martial adept class.

[Phelix-Mu]

Although Curmudgeon is absolutely correct on the RAW of one first level stance, you might want to ask if you have access to a 6th level stance. I understand this is a commonly applied house rule.

Avoid stone dragon maneuvers, other than mountain hammer line if you feel the need. Desert wind is a trap - too many things are fire immune in epic. Shadow hand is almost always nice, as is setting sun. Due to maneuver pre-reqs, you will want to focus on probably two schools at most.

I was interested by the Diamond Mind stuff, which seems really good, though maybe not so much by this level. Extra action economy is good, as are Mind over Body and the like, since the saves from BBEG are scary, even for a monk.

I am probably going to take Shadow Blade, since I could use more bonus damage and my Dex is a 30. I wanted to avoid too much of the sketchy flavor of shadow hand, purely on role play basis, but some of the tactical movement is too good to pass up.

EDIT: I was just going by Curmudgeon's reading of the RAW in the 3.5 Q+A Thread. It was Q740.

I will talk to my DM about that house rule. He's never run ToB before, so he pretty much just has my word to go by.

[mattie_p]

It's actually not RAW that you can only pick 1st level stances at 1st class level. What it actually says is that if you intend to take levels in a martial adept class, you get a 1st level stance as a 1st level character, even if you don't take an initiator class at 1st level. Yes, it's completely absurd to try to draw a RAW argument from what's obviously only intended to apply to 1st level martial adepts, and that's just as absurd as restricting someone to a 1st level stance when multiclassing into a martial adept class.

It is just as RAW as if the character took a level in cleric and wondered why they only had level 1 divine spells at ECL 21.

Phelix-Mu, check out the swordsage handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259783), in progress now.

[gomipile]

It is just as RAW as if the character took a level in cleric and wondered why they only had level 1 divine spells at ECL 21.

Phelix-Mu, check out the swordsage handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259783), in progress now.

Except that 1/2 your non-cleric class levels don't count towards your cleric level for choosing spells...

[mattie_p]

Except that 1/2 your non-cleric class levels don't count towards your cleric level for choosing spells...

And in regards to this, the rules as written are as follows.


You begin play with knowledge of one 1st-level stance from any discipline open to you. While the maneuver section has no restrictions on selecting maneuvers (other than you must meet the pre-requisites), 1st level swordsages (and the crusader and warblade) face this special restriction on stances. I agree this is may not make sense, but the text is pretty clear in this respect. Barring any errata from WoTC, it stands.

[Phelix-Mu]

I read that handbook earlier. Very nice work. Competent handbook writing, especially with a touch of wit and humour, is a thing of beauty.

I can swallow the stance restriction if the DM won't house rule it. It would be nice if I didn't need to take the Shadow Hand 1st level stance to get Shadow Blade (since I was also going to take the Dance of the Spider or some other Shadow Hand stance of higher level...), but I guess I can muddle this out.

Any more maneuvers that you all might recommend, or good maneuver combos?