PDA

View Full Version : [PF] Oracle or Cleric for a Death Knight style character?



mistformsquirrl
2013-02-17, 02:17 AM
So as I'm wont to do, I've been fiddling with another character concept. This time based rather loosely* on the World of Warcraft Death Knight. I've looked up a few threads on the subject via Google-fu and saw some interesting ideas (and a couple good Homebrew classes that could fit too)...

But ultimately for the sake of making sure I can get it into a game, I decided to narrow it down to one of these two, including avoiding 3.5e sources. I'm basically going with only stuff you can find here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/)

So here's the dilemma:

There's two basic directions I can go - Oracle with the Bones Mystery and Black Blood for a curse or Cleric (possibly Undead Lord) with the Death domain, and very possibly the Decay subdomain (from Plant).

On the one hand... the Cleric is more versatile - there are a lot of thematically appropriate spells I could prepare only when I need them; Skeleton Crew being an example, and it also starts with Heavy Armor, saving me a feat (always a plus), though I'd still need to spend one for Greatsword proficiency (worth it for theme imo).

On the other hand Black Blood lets me heal myself with Inflict spells, which I'd also be using on my undead minions - so it's a good substitute for Death Coil, a staple Death Knight ability. Bones also gets me a lot of appropriate spells without having to actually select them - so that's a plus, and while Cleric is more versatile, being a wholly spontaneous caster has some advantages in terms of flexibility as well. I also like that with the Bones mystery I can be the face of the party quite easily - Diplomacy, Intimidate and Bluff are all class skills with Bones, and I have the skill points to pump all of them, and a great Charisma score for it too. So that's a nice plus.

On the downside an Oracle, unless I've missed an option somewhere, will require a feat for Heavy Armor and another for Greatsword, so that's going to sting a bit, and I'm going to be spending money on scrolls for more obscure but thematic spells most probably.

I'm essentially seeing Oracle as the more fun choice (due to flavor) at the moment; but I figure I may as well see what the playground has to say.

Who knows, maybe somebody has an idea I totally didn't think of. < . .>; At any rate, I appreciate any help!

*This is key. I'm not trying for a 1:1 remake of the class; just something with the appropriate flavor. Undeath, Disease, Ice, that kind of thing (mostly the first two in my case)

Tanuki Tales
2013-02-17, 02:23 AM
Have you looked at the Knight of Sepulcher Archetype for Antipaladins? Death Knights are both Tanks and DPS for WoW, so it'd do the job of melee beatstick with an Undead/Disease theme better than an Oracle or Cleric.

mistformsquirrl
2013-02-17, 02:40 AM
I did indeed look at it, and it's a pretty fair idea to be honest; unfortunately it has to be CE... and I'm shooting for a more Neutral alignment.* Even if I can resolve that though, some abilities take awhile to come online that would be a LOT faster with a Cleric or Oracle.

I will grant Full BAB and not having to worry about feats for weapons and armor is always a plus; but sadly that one has some pretty hefty strikes against it for the above reasons.

Which isn't to say it's a bad idea, it's just not for me. 'Cause I'm weird like that ><; Sorry.

*I've always liked the "Trying to do good with bad powers." thing. <.< I'm a terrible villain.

ArcturusV
2013-02-17, 02:44 AM
Good is all in how you play it off. :smallbiggrin: You know you're doing something right when you can play an Evil Alignment, within the bounds of an evil alignment... the world worships you as a hero and a champion of Good and your party members all want your head on a pike as the downpayment for your evil deeds.

Squirrel_Dude
2013-02-17, 03:46 AM
I would personally go with Oracle because they make slightly better melee characters, and then prestige into Agent of the Grave.

Ellrin
2013-02-17, 12:13 PM
A kitsune oracle will get a bonus weapon proficiency feat (martial or exotic) every four levels if you use their favored class bonus; and a tengu automatically gets proficiency in all swords and sword-like weapons; so you can avoid having that feat if you don't mind messing with race.

I think an oracle could actually be a pretty good dps/tank. You have a high cha for UMD, so you can supplement your spells known with any other spell list, as well, givig you all the combat buffs you could want on top of necromancy spells.

Squirrel_Dude
2013-02-17, 01:52 PM
Also remember that clerics get proficiency in their deities chosen weapon for free.

Evil deities and their chosen weapons:

Asmodeus (LE) - Mace
Zon-Kuthon (LE) - Spiked Chain
Urgathoa (NE) - Scythe
Norgorber (NE) - Short sword
Lamashtu (CE) - Falchion
Rovagug (CE)* - Greataxe
*Fluff wise, I would stay far far away from Rovagug.

mistformsquirrl
2013-02-17, 05:40 PM
Good points on both accounts <o.o> Hrm.

I think after much consideration I'll go with Oracle though. The chief reason being the spontaneous casting - it lets me narrow my spell list substantially, which is one of the problems I have in 3.5e when playing a caster.

It also hopefully will let me focus on spells that suit the character type (debuffs, disease, fear, undead stuff) and ignore stuff that an ordinary Cleric could be expected to pinch-hit for their party even if it's not their forte (ie: healing)

I'm also thinking I may have to see if I can get the Leadership feat to have a Skeletal Champion/Fighter cohort. Would be fitting and all, and with a high charisma that should actually work out fairly well I'd think.

Thanks everyone! <@.@>b Hopefully I can find a game I can actually play said character in.

Ellrin
2013-02-17, 05:54 PM
Good points on both accounts <o.o> Hrm.

I think after much consideration I'll go with Oracle though. The chief reason being the spontaneous casting - it lets me narrow my spell list substantially, which is one of the problems I have in 3.5e when playing a caster.

It also hopefully will let me focus on spells that suit the character type (debuffs, disease, fear, undead stuff) and ignore stuff that an ordinary Cleric could be expected to pinch-hit for their party even if it's not their forte (ie: healing)

I'm also thinking I may have to see if I can get the Leadership feat to have a Skeletal Champion/Fighter cohort. Would be fitting and all, and with a high charisma that should actually work out fairly well I'd think.

Thanks everyone! <@.@>b Hopefully I can find a game I can actually play said character in.

If you're going to take Leadership, try to convince the DM you wind up with to let you take Undead Leadership from Libris Mortis (3.5), instead. You get +2 to your leadership score for attracting undead cohorts/followers, and can attract mindless undead as followers--so you can have a herd of CR 1 skeletons following you around for the flavor.

mistformsquirrl
2013-02-17, 06:16 PM
That's a great idea... would work to replace spells like Skeleton Crew, without really granting a combat advantage. I like it >_>b