Help me make an old lady scary (3.5) [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Eslin

2013-02-17, 04:15 AM

So, basic information - the players are all level 3-4 non-humans in a setting in which the majority of humans are extremely intolerant of any non-human humanoid. Recently they raided a peasant village and the fighter engaged with an old peasant lady and proceeded, through a series of atrocious rolls on his part and natural twenties on hers, to get beaten to -8 hit points. At that point she was just an unnamed level 1 commoner, but after they decided to recuperate in a building in town for some reason (they'd killed most of the village's able population, but they knew the old lady was still nearby).

In another idiot move they put the low wisdom nearly dead halfling on second watch, and woke up to find that the building was locked, barricaded and set on fire, and after barely making it out alive they all passed out from smoke inhalation or damage, bar the ardent who had teleported out immediately and fled - when he returned, he found the old lady (Mabel) harvesting fingers and ears from the unconscious party member and chased her off, then resuscitated the party and they hightailed it out of there.

Since then they've reacted with terror at the slightest hint that she might be near, and since she's defeated a party of level 3s and 4s she's gained enough experience to get to level four herself - so, how can I play her/build her to make her scary? She's rolled absurdly well on stats, and my party knows I'm not going to build her into anything they themselves can't build, I'm going to try to make her scary by constantly staying two steps ahead and just out of sight.

So, does anyone have any advice on what to take to make her scary? So far, since I don't want to take the easy route and just have her grab a bunch of wizard levels, I've been thinking factotum 1/ druid 1/ cleric 1/wizard 1, swapping for alternate class features left and right and using first level spells like disguise person, grease and obscuring mist. Any other classes that can add general utility people can suggest? Feat wise I'm using every source of bonus feats imaginable to add stuff like Dark Speech, Trickery Devotion and Profane Lifeleech. Anyone got any feats they like that lets the character do unusual stuff?

And lastly, what else can she do that's going to be scary? They're already terrified because an old lady who shouldn't have been able to downed them and cut body parts off, what else can she do to scare them? Stuff like talking to them in their dreams, being untrackable via divination and altering the landscape would be great if I knew which class features or feats would let her do that kind of stuff.

Pic related, it's several party members right after the session they met her finished. http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q652/Eslin_Goonan/dampd_zps178134ab.png

Jane_Smith

2013-02-17, 04:59 AM

Hm, make her race a hag, using alter self to appear human, and maybe give her levels in witch or cleric of ill fortune/luck or fate/destiny/etc.

Eslin

2013-02-17, 05:01 AM

ghost_warlock

2013-02-17, 05:10 AM

Don't multiclass her BAB into oblivion, instead make her a binder. She can have different weird SLAs and supernatural stuff every time they face her so they'll never know what to expect. Maybe toss in a level or two of warlock for additional always-on buffs.

If she was allowed to keep any of the parts off the fallen party members, have her use them to summon/bind party members temporarily to do her bidding. There's an old 2e spell called Cervate's Summoning in a Dungeon Magazine that lets the caster summon another humanoid like a summon monster spell so long as the caster has fingernails or hair clippings to use as a spell component. Could make a 3e version of it (but make sure that you write it so that you can only summon characters at least 2-3 levels lower than the caster or the players will abuse it if they ever get their mitts on the spell). If you do this, play on the summoned character being forced to obey her every command just like a summoned monster. Don't necessarily make them do anything especially horrific, but make sure to enforce the idea that they're powerless to resist her commands and she could do this to them any time she wants (which is true only so long as she has real hair/nail clippings - they don't leave anything behind for her when the summoning ends just like normal summoned creatures).

If nothing else, you could always run her like Tucker's kobolds (http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/). :smallbiggrin:

tiercel

2013-02-17, 05:15 AM

First off -- awesome.

Second -- I think it's important that the old lady NOT be a hag or anything other than human, part of her cachet was her improbable ownage as a level 1 human commoner.

Third -- Can I say Dread Witch (Heroes of Horror) strongly enough? It is the living paragon of fearcasting, has "scary old lady" almost literally written all over it. Your players are already scared of this NPC -- you might as well build in mechanical fear effects so that your NPC can go play Bowling for PCs with fear effects every time she shows up.

Alternatively, you just build on her previous success by making her some kind of melee monster of Vengeance. If you go the "old-fu" route, it's probably ToB time, either that or you just go Old Lady Rage with some kind of improbable Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker build.

Chilingsworth

2013-02-17, 05:16 AM

Just make her a monoclassed cleric or druid and call it a day. (or, maybe a commoner 1/druid or cleric x)

Out of curiosity, what alignments are we dealing with here (party's, the dead villigers', and Mabel's?)

Eslin

2013-02-17, 05:16 AM

Using fractional BAB, so that part's not a problem - but a level of binder sounds like it could work really well, I'll try that. Tucker's kobolds is actually one of my main sources of inspiration, so much so that she'll be prestige classing into Trapmaster if she's around long enough. She's also got coming back from death as a gravetouched ghoul sorted out, so I'm trying to think of a good thanatos gambit (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThanatosGambit) - rigging an area with toxic gas and luring the PCs in, goading them into chasing her into a populated area, that sort of thing. Anyone got any ideas on that front?

MustacheFart

2013-02-17, 05:18 AM

Kind of defeats the purpose. She's supposed to be some old peasant woman who under pressure turned out to kind of kickass, and has been spurred to veangeance by the encounter - she's been given pc like stats and a few class levels to play with, retroactively making her a monster would make everyone cry foul.

That's because they know her victories were purely due to excellent rolls, I assume.

Well... you want her to scare them? Why not do just that? Would a fear-monger build be out of the question? Start stacking some fear affects. Defeating her would require them to figuratively get over their fear of her (gain fear immunity, etc). Just a thought as you seem to be looking for game mechanics to reenforce something you've already established.

On a side note, was it the same fighter who got dropped whom she maimed (removing fingers and ears)?

Dr.Epic

2013-02-17, 05:22 AM

What if the old lady was in fact dead, and her son - who is a murder - has been lying to everyone about it and is so crazy he sometimes switches personalities and adopts the mindset of his dead mother?

Doesn't that sound as awesome as a quest about birds suddenly turning violent and attacking people for no discernible reason?

Eslin

2013-02-17, 05:22 AM

Just make her a monoclassed cleric or druid and call it a day. (or, maybe a commoner 1/druid or cleric x)

since I don't want to take the easy route and just have her grab a bunch of wizard levels

Grabbing a bunch of different levels is kind of the point as well - aiming for utility over sheer power, and if I let the PCs figure out she's got a whole bunch of different classes the scariness when she screws them over again will be better.

Dead villagers were mostly neutral, hers is lawful evil since she made a Pact Certain (FC2) to get more stats/feats (druids aren't alignment restricted in this setting). PCs started mostly neutral and good and have since then descended to mostly evil as they began to view murder and robbery as the most efficient solutions to most problems.

And the main victory was due to the party being idiots and sleeping in a house with no windows and a useless sentry - they'll be smarter next time, but so'll she.

mcv

2013-02-17, 05:28 AM

I have no advice for you, but I'd like to say that this is one of the most awesome session reports I've read in quite a while. I'm jealous.

In general, I'd say try to give her a reason to collect fingers and ears. What is she going to do with that? Make herself stronger so she can kick their ass again in melee? Cast creepy curses on them?

Personally I think I'd just cherry pick some thematic spells and abilities and ignore the class levels, but that's me.

Eslin

2013-02-17, 05:32 AM

I will start cherry picking if necessary (especially if I can't find any way for her to invade their dreams), but the fact that they know she doesn't have any abilities that they don't have and that despite it being one against six she still has the upper hand is working wonders.

And the reason for taking fingers and ears was originally that it was early days - though logical, coup de gracing the party would have been unfair. So now the justification is she's going to keep harvesting body parts until there's nothing left of them.

ghost_warlock

2013-02-17, 05:54 AM

Have her build a flesh golem out of their harvested body parts. :smalltongue:

Chilingsworth

2013-02-17, 05:56 AM

Well, don't forget to have her make jewlery out of her trophies.

Also, when she gets the required spells (and starts taking hands) have her make crawling claws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawling_claw) out of their hands.

Pesimismrocks

2013-02-17, 05:57 AM

Too much in the way of multiclassing may weaken her abilities in most areas. I would suggest a mixture of factotum and binder for the immense variation that can be given to encounters.

And the reason for taking fingers and ears was originally that it was early days - though logical, coup de gracing the party would have been unfair. So now the justification is she's going to keep harvesting body parts until there's nothing left of them.
Thats really creepy on its own. Maybe give her the trophy collection feat from PH2 or something similiar

Mnemnosyne

2013-02-17, 06:10 AM

I'm liking the binder idea. Fluffwise it fits really well. It's supposed to be the easy route to magic, because anyone can do it just by learning to draw the seals. Until a few days ago she was just a normal old lady. Then these monsters came to town, she found when push came to shove she was tougher than anyone imagined, but she still needed more. She dug up an old book that had been passed down through her family that she'd never messed with before, and started drawing seals and making pacts in return for more power, so she could gain proper revenge and/or save any other surviving people in the town.

I would say avoid anything like wizard levels, or anything else that inherently implies lots of study and/or practice and knowledge to pull off. Because it would be a little odd; if she has spells at her disposal, why didn't she use them before? Thematically, at least, wizards are supposed to take a lot of study to learn to cast their spells, if she just takes a level in wizard it feels weird.

Cleric levels might work pretty well, though, because maybe she prayed to a god (a god of vengeance would make sense) and got granted cleric spells in return. Maybe make her a Binder 1/Cloistered Cleric 1/Anima Mage 2 with a divine variant of Anima Mage (as noted in the adaptation section of the class). Use Sanctum Spell or DMM Heighten to give her a 2nd level spell to qualify her for Anima Mage, and make her house her sanctum; she's likely to wind up fighting there at least once more, so it's even useful.

I too would look for something more useful for her to be doing with the fingers and ears. It seems silly that if she could grab their fingers and ears she did that and didn't CdG them; it's only understandable in a metagamey sense. So you need to give her an in-character reason for having left them alive, but missing body parts. Something worse than killing them that she's going to do, using those body parts as a focus. Come up with some evil ritual, probably associated with either the fiends she made a pact with or the deity of vengeance granting her spells, that she's using the body parts for. She's binding their souls to some sort of punishment, or somehow inflicting a mighty curse upon them.

Khedrac

2013-02-17, 07:11 AM

No suggestions on classes, but with that background I would try to take a stack of the Luck feats...

Captainspork

2013-02-17, 07:38 AM

I don't know what alignment your characters are, or what level you plan on getting to, but based on their raiding of a peasant village this seems to help you with your dreams issue (see: dream haunting) while keeping true to the "old crone" form. It's not perfect, but you could meld this into something that is pretty easily I bet.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Night_Hag

Chilingsworth

2013-02-17, 08:04 AM

Don't forget, if she signed an infernal contract, she might still have active connections to fiendish allies. Then again, since she sold herself all at once, they may well not care about her anymore, OR even better, want her to die, and be willing to use the party to aid in that goal. Even better, the fiends could use the promise of aid against their terrifying foe to get them to sign contracts, and thus get even more souls out of the deal. :smallbiggrin:

After the old lady softens them up, be sure to have the fiend finish them off, to collect their souls immdeiately (unless the party shows itself very, very useful alive.)

Jane_Smith

2013-02-17, 08:04 AM

Skip spellcasting levels completely and just go for like rogue and/or ranger. Give her track, perception, survival, use magic device, craft (Trapmaking) and craft (Alchemy and/or Poisonmaking). Give her the feats from cityscape for the improved craft (Trapmaking) crafting speed, Efficient Scavenger (from world of warcraft the rpg) for 1/10th crafting cost for crafting goods so she can mass produce some explosives, poisons, drugs, hallucinogens, traps, etc.

And, you give her 1 level in ranger, toss in handle animal. Give her some blood hounds to help track down the pc's and to aid another her when tracking them down. They can't escape, shes always watching, and she likely has nothing more then a frying pan or a knife and can sneak up behind them and instantly down them or plan overly complex and sadistic traps. Use Saw + Hills have Eyes movies for inspiration, throw in a creepy banjo near the parties house/camp occasionally to wake them up, because why the hell not?

The most horrifying enemy in the game is not a spellcaster. Its the more mundane means of killing someone that makes it all the closer to home to strike fear in them.

Alienist

2013-02-17, 08:16 AM

At level 4, it is entirely possible for an Artificer to solo That Damn Crab.

With advanced preparation it is not just possible, it's probable.

However, the main reason that is so easy, is because the Crab has only one schtick (grappling). If you slap on enough grappling-damage reflection buffs, it's just a question of whose hit points hold out the longest.

(Answer: the Artificer's of course. Healing enchantment is that gosh darn good)

----

I would Warblade her and break out the stinky cheese*

*It's a warblde, it's all cheese, but some of it is smellier than others.

Alternately, I'd give her a _reason_ for trying to harvest the player's organs ...

Pathfinder has a very creepy witch class (gingerbread houses, and babies in cauldrons and everything that goes with it)

Eslin

2013-02-17, 08:30 AM

A lot of these suggestions have been really good - I especially like the animals one, bloodhounds or the like would be an excellent addition.

She's also being built on the assumption that there'll be a gravetouched ghoul version of her running around once she tricks them into killing her in a way that screws them over.

Anyways, here's what I came up with for class levels (keep in mind the fluff's pretty mutable in my campaign - one of the players is a dwarf bard with a surly, angry disposition who only uses music to try to terrify people, and another is a factotum who is refluffed all her improvisation stuff is actually rote learned ancient elven knowledge):
Factotum 1
Cloistered cleric 1 (luck domain, trickery and knowledge devotion)
Druid 1 (animal companion swapped for rage and fast movement, armour and wildshaping swapped out for favoured organisation (PCs), track and monk AC bonus)
Wizard 1 (conjuration, abrupt jaunt, scribe spell swapped for improved initiative)

The only homebrew sort of rule about her is the deal with Doresain she made for more power to **** the PCs over - in exchange for eating their flesh and promising to spread ghouldom, she's got 60 taint (heroes of horror) which she's immune to the corruption side of taint and she'll come back as a gravetouched ghoul after death.

Chilingsworth

2013-02-17, 09:20 AM

Newoblivion

2013-02-17, 09:28 AM

You can give her the dread which prc as a core class, and just give her her own spell list.

Alienist

2013-02-17, 09:57 AM

Eberron Campaign Setting gave Dusk Hags (CR 4, 6HD) the Nightmare Touch ability.

Nightmare is a level 5 spell, but you kind of have to ask "why?"

Maybe give her a Wand of Nightmare with 5 charges, given the classes you gave her, she's bound to have it on a list somewhere, then you just need to UMD it because she's too low of a level. Because her UMD will suck it won't work all the time.

Unreliability is going to add to the scariness.

Also, if all/most of the townsfolk have died, the rest of them (including Mabel) should flee to different villages ... now the PCs have to track her down before they can cut her down and release her final form ...

Chilingsworth

2013-02-17, 10:02 AM

Wands automatically work if you have them on your class spell list, regardless of your caster level. Even paladins and rangers below 4th level (and thus no spellcasting yet) can use wands of spells on their respective lists just fine.

On another note, if you want to put spells higher than 4th level into a spell trigger item, your choices are to use staves, or an item type called a scepter, found in Lost Empires of Faerun.

Toy Killer

2013-02-17, 10:17 AM

The beast of the night took Mama's babe away, But Mama never cries...

Living to the ripe age of 64 is tough in Wolverhampton. Mundane casual problems are usually just the beginning, taxes, colds, poor weather strangling the money out of the area. Later comes the more unusual problems that start ticking away the populace of the town slowly but surely.

The priest says she lost her remorse, and it left her eye's dry...

"mama" was born Mary Mallon. Her first love when she was 17 was drafted in a civil war between two factions fighting over a kingdom she had never laid eyes on. She never saw him again. Her first husband past away before they could bear children together, helping defending the town from bandits. Her second husband was with her long enough to see the birth of their first born daughter, Samantha. A skilled huntsmen, he led the hunt against a raging werewolf, and came back in pieces.

So if your lost, and she gives you a hand, it's best to go inside...

Mama took care of Samantha, yet never married again. Although, it's tough to determine what exactly happened to Samantha, or if she was ever born at all. Some of the elder folk in the town will claim to have seen Samantha or remember her child, but even descriptions about her wildly vary. The younger generation is pretty familiar with her, and know her as Mama, because many of them have been mistaken for Samantha.

Because Mama loves you, but don't ever say good bye...

The town guard makes regular stops at the old Mallon house, just to make sure she hasn't picked up any children. A guardsmen, Joesph, is very adept at returning the kids home safely, as she tends to be very temperamental about having the kids taken away. Joesph has a method that works smoothly though, and defends it viciously. He's butted heads a few time with his captain, and as long as he can return the children, the captain can't take action against him. Before Joesph learned his trick, children would typically stay in the house, sometimes for the upwards of a week with broken knuckles and lashings against their back. Naturally, she's just an old peasant widow, so how much trouble would she cause if they tried to 'relocate' her to a more suitable place?

Two across the knuckles, and one against the back...

The Mudgett Asylum for the Mentally Deranged, (a Hospital endorsed by the church of Palor) attempted to pick her up for treatment. After being chided for half an hour about how they should respect their Mama, and then losing 2 orderlies, a Paladin, as well as a warrior in need of serious psychological therapy, the attempts to relocate were deemed unnecessary. She's pushing an elderly age, won't make it through too many more winters, and the local guard has a reliable means to separate Mama from her kid-napped kids with out much harm.

As the oldest generation died, and the youngest grew, she became a bit of a walking folk legend. People would show off their warped knuckles and joke about how the next invasion that the town faces, they should let Mama know that the invaders took Samantha.

Because Mama never cries....

[Side Note: Consider this town idea irrevocably stolen. Love it to death!]

Krobar

2013-02-17, 10:21 AM

I would make her a Dread Witch as others have mentioned, and stack those fear effects. Give her the Dreadful Wrath feat at level 1 and before you know it the party is always panicked and fleeing whenever she shows up.

And she's harvesting their body parts while they're still alive because there's nothing like kidnapping a single PC, spiriting him away to a safe place, and making him eat his own hands and feet.

Eslin

2013-02-17, 10:56 AM

Don't forget to give her the natural bond (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-adventurer--54/natural-bond--2030/) feat to improve her animal companion. :smallwink:

Wait, is Dorsein a Lawful Evil entity in your universe? Is he part of the Infernal hierarchy? If not, then how would selling one's soul to him turn you Lawful Evil?:smallconfused:

No, she sold herself to some archduke or another's lackey and seperately bargained with Doresain so she wouldn't have to deal with the whole 'devils getting your soul' thing. She's making deals with whoever might grant her power, doesn't care how it's going to end as long as she viciously dismembers the PCs first.

And she's only got one level of druid, plus she's swapped out the animal companion, so if I'm gonna go down that road I'll just get her wild cohort instead =P

Also thanks to whoever reminded me of nightmare - just checked the spell description, and the dc is -10 if the caster has a body part of the victim =D

Arbane

2013-02-17, 03:59 PM

How about Monk?

Armor? Nah.
Weapons? Nah.

PAIN to anyone who gets in her way? Oh, yeah.

AmberVael

2013-02-17, 04:39 PM

Recently they raided a peasant village and the fighter engaged with an old peasant lady and proceeded, through a series of atrocious rolls on his part and natural twenties on hers, to get beaten to -8 hit points.
...
When he returned, he found the old lady (Mabel) harvesting fingers and ears from the unconscious party member and chased her off, then resuscitated the party and they hightailed it out of there.

These things bring to mind two pieces of fiction. The great primordial demon Kimbery, from Exalted, and a particular piece of The Princess Bride. The former requires a bit more explanation, so I'll start with the latter.

"To the death."
"No. To the pain. To the pain means the first thing you will lose will be your feet below the ankles. Then your hands at the wrists. Next your nose. The next thing you will lose will be your left eye followed by your right. Your ears you keep and I'll tell you why. So that every shriek of every child at seeing your hideousness will be yours to cherish. Every babe that weeps at your approach, every woman who cries out, "Dear God! What is that thing," will echo in your perfect ears. That is what to the pain means. It means I leave you in anguish, wallowing in freakish misery forever."

Kimbery, meanwhile, is the Mother Sea. She loves and she hates with a passion as deep as her acidic depths. She obsesses, and never forgets, never forgives. For those her infinite enmity encompasses, death is a luxury that will never come. Those who harm her and those she loves will suffer every twisted and imaginative agony that comes to her in perpetuity.

Other people can suggest mechanics. It seems like you have plenty of your own ideas in mind too- but I want to suggest how to make her terrifying, and while mechanics can help, they're only the tip of the iceberg. I bring these two snippets of fiction because I think you can draw on them to explain her actions in a way that will make her a memorable, unnerving antagonist.

She's lost nearly everything. Her home, her family. Everything she held dear was destroyed in front of her eyes. That's quite enough to break a person. Maybe she would have become a broken old woman from that, but she was forced to fight back, and her success- no matter how improbable- put something else into her mind. She won, and it felt good. But it wasn't enough, and that's why they fond her carving on them rather than killing them. They didn't die because she wasn't finished with them- she wanted more.

And now, if she has her way, she won't ever be finished with them. She'll extract revenge on them piece by piece, doing everything to break them down, to harm them in ways they can't and won't forget, but that they'll survive. She doesn't have to fight them directly to achieve her aims, but she'll always be on the sidelines, watching and waiting to gloat and revel as she hurts them just a little further.

Perhaps sometimes she will be content to let them go free, just for a little while, just so they feel some hope again before she wrings even greater terror out of them. But other times, she will be consumed by her rage and anger, determined to capture and mutilate them until they can never escape her terrible vengeance. Make her unpredictable, but fixated. The swinging of her mind will emphasize her insanity, while her obsession will bring out the fact that they can never expect any of her actions to go well for them. The combination will mean that everything she does will evoke terror, yet they'll never quite know what she's planning.

I like your idea for taking more parts off of them. Each time she wins over them, have her take a few more. Not all of them- not at once- but just a couple. Maybe more or less depending on her current mood. Maybe she can leave them little taunting notes or invectives too- written into their skin.

Fable Wright

2013-02-17, 04:55 PM

I'm reminded of the time I tried to make E6 Nazgul, and you might be able to use some of the things that I did with that.

First: Don't have her make her pacts yet. Wait a bit for that- level 6, to be precise. As it turns out, the Dark Speech feat (the reprinted one in Elder Evils) has two feats in the same book that give you additional uses for it; one was a Swift action feat that can Deafen people and give them a -4 penalty to saves against Evil spells, and the other allows you to Stagger or Confuse opponents. Now, all of those feats have Special: If the character can't take ability damage, they can't select this feat. There is nothing preventing them from using it if they take the feats while they're vulnerable to ability damage and then later becoming immune to it, such as by becoming undead. And some of the uses of Dark Speech are pretty good- the Dread use can either have the party (if evil) taken completely by surprise by the old lady's animal horde or penalized (if not evil) when the fight comes to. The creating swarm use gives the old lady the ability to raise swarms before attacking the party. After that, there is the Animal Lord (CAdv) and Beast Heart Adept (Dungeonscape) can give her additional companions at later levels.

Eslin

2013-02-18, 01:39 AM

All those suggestions of allies are good ones - mad faith and practised spellcaster will mean she can raise a good number of zombies, wild cohort will get her a useful companion and water devotion will get her summonable water elementals does anyone know of any other feats or items that will give her more allies?

Shining Wrath

2013-02-18, 11:12 AM

First of all, I suggest Lovecraft as a guide for Scary Old Ladies. Demented tittering FTW.

Secondly, I'd suggest that her powers are divine rather than arcane or martial. She serves some Power which is both not-nice and naturally opposed to your players; since the bad guys don't get along with each other very well this should be easy to achieve. She doesn't have to have a class so much as a set of abilities granted her by The Power she serves as a reward for her ownage of your fighter.

sreservoir

2013-02-18, 11:30 AM

is there any particular rrason for all the multiclassing, because picking up entry-level features left and right doesn't seem like it would generally make for a very scary

Chilingsworth

2013-02-18, 11:45 AM

For particularly creepy allies, I just want to repeat one of my earlier suggestions: Crawling Claws. Out of Lost Empires of Faerun, they're crafted from severed left hands. Let her take the left hands from the party, then later force them to fight their own appendages. :smallamused:

Also, if she tried to screw devils over, they're very likely to get involved with the PC's. Even if the devils seem to be their allies, though, there's no reason for their presence to be particularly benefitial to the PC's.

hamishspence

2013-02-18, 01:09 PM

For particularly creepy allies, I just want to repeat one of my earlier suggestions: Crawling Claws. Out of Lost Empires of Faerun, they're crafted from severed left hands. Let her take the left hands from the party, then later force them to fight their own appendages. :smallamused:

Technically they can be either hand- and the picture shows both right hands and left hands.

Synovia

2013-02-18, 01:57 PM

Grabbing a bunch of different levels is kind of the point as well - aiming for utility over sheer power, and if I let the PCs figure out she's got a whole bunch of different classes the scariness when she screws them over again will be better.

Most of the time, taking multiple classes will make her less versatile, not more.

You get a lot more veratility out of 2nd level spells than you would out of disjointed class abilities.

I think a druid (refluffed a bit) or a Beguiler would work fantastically.

Chilingsworth

2013-02-18, 02:06 PM

Technically they can be either hand- and the picture shows both right hands and left hands.

Yeah, but if cut she off both a character's hands, they'd be almost completely gimped (unless they were a psion, I suppose.) That would be very likely to get them killed early. And if they're dead, she cant hurt and terrify them any more.

Arbane

2013-02-18, 05:17 PM

Ranger with Favored enemy: Humanoid (Human) (Or whatever race the PCs are)?

Eslin

2013-02-19, 05:58 AM

She's already got favoured enemy (well, the organisation variant, she's chosen the PCs) thanks to the druid level - which is my point, I'm collecting little weird abilities everywhere rather than just give her a bunch of levels in cleric or wizard. She's gonna go into trapsmith for the utility spells and, well, traps. The binder level was a great idea thanks, being able to change abilities at need is perfect.

Anyone else know of some classes/items/feats that give nifty little abilities? I'm getting her shapesand, a hat of disguise and several Quaal's tokens - any other tricks people know?

Chilingsworth

2013-02-19, 08:39 AM

If she can get access to the shrink item and explosive runes spells (maybe by UMD of wands?) I'm sure she could find some fun uses for them.

This goes double for the explosive runes if you get a wand of either amanuensis or dispel ward. :smallamused:

Shining Wrath

2013-02-19, 09:15 AM

She needs access to some way to disguise herself so that the PC's never know if the beggar alongside the entrance to the temple, or the high priest within the temple, is actual her. Lots of classes give access to illusion and disguise. Beguiler?

Chilingsworth

2013-02-19, 10:27 AM

She's already been given a hat of disguise. Still, having training in the skill would also be a good idea.

Sudain

2013-02-19, 11:01 AM

I've always wanted to play with: Dream/nightmare, Geas/Lesser Geas, Shadow Walk.

As far as creepy... everyplace she's been smells faintly of fudge or chocolate chip cookies. Be she, does not. Even when spotted actively baking them, does not smell of this scent.

Get her a enchanted rolling-pin and frying pan(sheild bounus?) have be more adept with them than any fighter could ever hope to be.

Shining Wrath

2013-02-19, 11:46 AM

For Lovecraft goodness, some sorts of creatures act differently around her, and that's one way to know she's around.

Owls fly in the daytime when she's near. Rats and mice walk sideways, like a crab. Spiders dangle motionless at the end of long threads, as though waiting.

lord pringle

2013-02-19, 12:25 PM

Give her Troll-Blooded so that she never has to die, until the players burn her. It's what I generally use to up the creepiness factor of someone.

XmonkTad

2013-02-19, 12:46 PM

Onieromancy.

Have her constantly invading the PC's dreams and saying "I kill you in my dreams every night" and some such. Using some variant rules from Planar handbook (or was it manual of the planes?) you could have the Dreamheart be a real threat to the PCs, and they never know when she might drag them there.

Every time they stay in one place overnight, have her visit the dreams of the people around them too, eventually lowering their attitude rating. The real terror of this part of the plan is eventually the PC's will become heralds of the old lady, spreading her terror in their wake.

I really think it is important to keep her human though. I would give her class levels in NPC classes only; witch or adept if not straight commoner! The terror of the old lady should not come from mechanics ESPECIALLY not fear mechanics. Heroes of Horror has a great explanation of why but it boils down to: having a cowering character is not scary, its frustrating.

Eslin

2013-02-19, 10:32 PM

The animals behaving oddly and the smell of cookie dough around her are both AMAZING ideas, thank you guys!

To the guy who asked before, party comp is as follows:
Monk 2/Ardent 2 grey orc
Level 4 dwarven bard
Level 3 gnome illusion specialist (banned necromancy and conjuration)
Level 3 winged elven factotum (extra str and con penalties in exchange for flight)
level 3 raptoran fighter
level 3 halfling rogue

Kirgoth

2013-02-19, 11:13 PM

So the party are murdering non-human scum who wiped out an entire village and ran away from the poor old lady.
Have them hear about the massacre, and make the story grow, children butchered, cannibalism etc. Then have them hear how the evil old baron has married the sole survivor who he has alway had a thing for from when he was young. Young love, so romantic.

Then have the bounties, soldiers, wanted posters, knives in the dark, start up as the EVIL old baron would love to make his new bride happy. Give her Commoner 1/Aristocrat 3. A loverly couple, his sons can be blackguards, paladins of tyrrany and the like and have nice magical backup. What better present than some body part from each party member, something they would miss but leave them alive with a nice farewell note from the blackguard such as see you next christmas.

Eslin

2013-02-20, 12:25 AM

Averis Vol

2013-02-20, 12:48 AM

So, I read your opening post yesterday and I'm still getting a good laugh out of it. You could give her the chameleon template from Underdark, which will give her a 10 foot tongue attack along with a climb speed equal to half her highest non fly speed. Because when I picture a gore splattered old lady sucking the blood from a parties finger tips, I'm only more freaked out if I picture her staring down at them while she spider climbs head first down a tree, with a tongue lashing about to deliver touch spells.

Also, nursery rhymes; next to porcelain dolls nursery rhymes are one of the few things that just creep me right the **** out.

My 2 cp, hope it helps.

Eslin

2013-02-20, 03:17 AM

I'm a bit wary of template stacking - she's already going to get gravetouched ghoul pretty soon, and I don't want her to appear too different to an old lady in her base form.

Though, that is an idea - I'm intending to give her evolved undead every time she wins an encounter with the PCs, any other ideas?

Aliek

2013-02-20, 07:59 AM

Have her serve some elder evil, should the campaign run that far.

Because why care about the rest of the world when you have nothing left but vengeance?

Else I would say something such as becoming a shade/telflammar shadowlord. There's just something very cool about a guy who steps out of your shadow, delivers a ton of pain, and just abrupt jaunt out of the way when someone goes head-on.

Shining Wrath

2013-02-20, 09:22 AM

They uh, already did kill the children. And it's not quite cannibalism considering they're not the same species, but they did eat people when they were the best source of food.

And the marrying the baron part's not really usable - it would be humanising, would make him the important threat instead of her and would let them know where to find her.

I always thought that in a fantasy setting, elves eating humans, or vice-versa, would be regarded as cannibalism by both elves and humans.

I would think it would be "cannibalism" to eat any sentient creature - dragons, unicorns, etc.

Kornaki

2013-02-20, 09:33 AM

The body parts could be for grafts, like in Lords of Madness or Liber Mortis. Next time they fight her she's using their feet instead of her, granting her a 5 foot speed bonus. She puts on their hands to negate the dexterity bonus for being old.

Synovia

2013-02-20, 10:03 AM

They uh, already did kill the children. And it's not quite cannibalism considering they're not the same species, but they did eat people when they were the best source of food..

Elves, humans, dwarves, etc, can all interbreed and produce fertile offspring, so, from a biological sense, are all the same species (different races of the same species).

So yeah, cannibalism.

Siltharon

2013-02-20, 10:20 AM

How about Monk?

Armor? Nah.
Weapons? Nah.

PAIN to anyone who gets in her way? Oh, yeah.

Good sir :smalleek: In what kind of abstract world are you living?

Eslin

2013-02-22, 02:19 AM

So, last question - does anyone know of any items that will be useful? Not just for scaring, but for general utility? Escape methods, travel, weird little items you happen to know about?

Eurus

2013-02-22, 03:27 AM

Amber Amulet of Vermin? I seem to recall it being an amusing source of "augh giant bugs". Pipes of Sounding are also one of my favorite little doodads.

MicHag

2013-02-22, 09:47 AM

Have her build a flesh golem out of their harvested body parts. :smalltongue:

Mr. Fingers! (http://goblinscomic.wikia.com/wiki/Mr._Fingers)

Shining Wrath

2013-02-22, 10:34 AM

Items: anything that allows invisibility, teleport, passing through walls, and other ways to let her be where no one expects her to be.

Something to pass without trace or otherwise be able to disappear without being tracked.

Broom of Flying seems like a natural.

Pipes of Haunting.
Pipes of the Sewers.

The various "Dust" items.

TuggyNE

2013-02-22, 08:57 PM

Mr. Fingers! (http://goblinscomic.wikia.com/wiki/Mr._Fingers)

Dude, yes, Mr. Fingers is awesome and freaky. (Anyone come up with better stats than the original odd mix of 2e/3e?)

Eslin

2013-02-22, 09:00 PM

My players are idiots, he'll end up killing them all >.>

Runestar

2013-02-22, 09:17 PM

Give her levels in swordsage.

Rising Phoenix

2013-02-22, 11:18 PM

There's the witch class from Pathfinder. It has all the flavour you need.

But honestly as others have said, don't use rules, use the narrative. The outsiders/spirits she's associating with? No, she didn't create or summon them, they came because they understand her 'point of view'. Maybe she doesn't even realize they are there.

Fable Wright

2013-02-23, 12:16 AM

Seconding Amber Amulets. The Giant Wasp one can be used as an impromptu getaway plan if the assault doesn't pan out.

Other than that, I would recommend a Wand bracer or two and a few partially charged Wands and/or Eternal Wands.

Skin of Obox-Ob is pretty good, from Expedition to the Demonweb Pits page 155. It activates once per day, for 7 rounds, grants resistance to fire, cold, electricity, and acid 10, and some minor immunities and darkvision. The kicker, though, is that the wearer can take 10 hp damage to cause a demonwasp swarm to crawl out of their flesh (though doing so takes away the other benefits of the skin) and act under their control for the duration of the spell. It costs 4k, but it's got a effect and visual (the wearer's skin looks vaguely like a carapace, antennae come out while it's active). Good bang for the buck. It also helps with the tactic of the old lady setting herself on fire before fighting the party, for the intimidation value.

Stygian Ice, from Frostburn, page 81, is a beautiful horror element. It costs 2k per pound, but you can get fractions of pounds for the purposes here. While it's in contact with a person, that person takes 1d6 points of cold damage each round, and then has to make a DC 12 Will save or take 2 Wis damage as their memories freeze over. Have the old lady, if she finds any of them helpless, or finds some other opportunity (one of her animal companions pins the PC, for example), she forces the PC to swallow a cube of the ice. Each round, they take cold damage as their insides freeze, and Wisdom damage as their brains do. Each round, they try to somehow get it out of their system (possibly trying regurgitation or cutting it out), or wind up freezing to death. Even if they survive that, the Wisdom damage will last for days, and it will terrify the player that the old lady could do that.
EDIT: Even better, rather than have the PC swallow it, have the lady put the ice cube in an open wound, and then heal the PC's wound with the ice trapped under the skin. Now, to get it out, they have to spend a round in combat to attack themselves and cut open the wound, and then another round and more damage as they dig out the piece of ice in battlefield conditions and tear it out of their own flesh. If they don't, they'll freeze to death. If they do, they just dealt massive damage to themselves in the middle of combat with a small horde of companions.

Oh, and the fingers she cut off? Have her make a necklace of them, with runes carved in them that begin to bleed when the players they correspond to take damage. Treat each of them as a different Chronocharm, and then the old lady uses the Chronocharm, the finger breaks with a sickening sound, and the player feels a ghost pain in their hands. This will freak them the hell out, as rather than that ranged attack hitting the old lady, it deflected off of her, and you suddenly feel your finger, that she's wearing around her neck, break. Or, the player feels a white-hot moment of pain as their finger around her neck breaks, and when they blink, she's 15 ft away. Or the finger breaks, and you feel pain in your finger, as a wolf's jaws wrap around their shins to add to the pain. Your players won't understand what's going on, and at best can make out that she's using their fingers as magical wards, and that freaks them out to try and determine how she's doing that.