Bigger Badder Beholder!

[Xaragos]

Hey I am thinking of running an encounter for a group of pcs who are 12th level and I want to give them a really tough baddie. The enemy of choice is the iconic Beholder. As it is, I am going to include pit traps, illusions, and other various terrain fun into the mix to provide interesting situations for the PCs to overcome.

One of the challenges I am trying to understand is how to maximize the use of the eye rays. As a standard action, the Beholder can fire all 10 of its rays, 3 at one target max, and only in 90 degree angles. So if the Beholder is in the center of all of the party members I can see it easily blasting away at all of them each round. But what if I wanted to attack them from above or from below? Is there a feat or mechanic to allow me to fire all 10 of the rays at the party? Maybe something that could allow the orb to rotate around or to do something like Spring Attack or maybe Flyby attack that specifically addresses this?

The only feats I could find were: Disjunction Ray, Focused Antimagic, and MetaRay.

I want to make this guy tough, but I want to make sure I am going by the book as well.

[KillianHawkeye]

The Agile Tyrant feat (also from Lords of Madness) allows beholders to put an extra eye beam into a single 90-degree arc. Still not quite what you're looking for, though.

[Mnemnosyne]

The beholder's flyby attack feat allows it to redirect its antimagic cone twice with a single move action. Unfortunately the specific text in the Flyby Attack feat prevents it from moving twice in the same round by using its standard action as a second move action, but it can still do this:

Free Action: Fire 1 or more eye rays.
Move Action: Move, redirecting antimagic cone.
Flyby Attack: Fire 1 or more eye rays.
Move Action (continued): Move, redirecting antimagic cone.
Free Action: Fire 1 or more eye rays.

It still has a standard action remaining after that, which it can use in some other manner. Alternately, if it has a mouthpick weapon, it might use that as part of its flyby attack (in addition to firing eye rays at that point).

Give the beholder the Focused Antimagic and Disjunction Ray feats, but don't use the disjunction ray on the players' items (cause that's just not fun in general, and it even says in the text of the feat that beholders don't like to do that). Do use it to strip active buffs, and disjoin any unpleasant area spells that the beholder wants to get rid of.

You can also give the beholder some of the special beholder magical items from Lords of Madness. The three lenses can be quite useful, and are likely to be of far less usefulness to the players if they manage to obtain them as loot, unless one of them specializes in ray spells and uses them a lot. Give the beholder's finger of death ray a lens of ray chaining and a lens of ray doubling and you've suddenly got a beholder doing 3d6+13 damage to multiple targets every round, and forcing several saves vs. death with that ray.

Don't forget to use telekinesis to its full effect. The beholder likely has lots of weapons scattered about but hidden throughout its lair, where it can easily use them as projectiles for telekinesis. It's also great for bull rushing enemies into traps and the like.

And of course, charm monster and charm person rays mean that the beholder probably has no shortage of useful minions hanging around its lair. Make sure to use them to screen for it if it starts getting badly injured, so it can retreat, heal up, and come back from another angle.

A beholder with these feats should probably open combat by disjoining any spell effects on the most dangerous-looking of the PC's, then casting charm monster and charm person on a couple of them. If those rays overcome their saving throws, it'll give at least some time before those PC's start to attack him again.

He can then move, and mid-move, fire a chained, doubled finger of death at him, having the ray chain to everyone that wasn't affected by the charms, doing some guaranteed damage and possibly killing one or more of them. He can also throw flesh to stone and slow on the PC's. Since he's flyby attacking, he also hits one of them with his mouthpick weapon.

Then he completes his move. If he successfully charmed a couple of them, he doesn't want to include them in his antimagic ray, so he'll use focused antimagic to put the ray on the next most dangerous of them. If he failed to charm any of them, he'll just include them all in his antimagic cone. If he includes them all in his antimagic cone, he still has one move left - he uses telekinesis on some of the conveniently placed weapons somewhere outside the cone, launching them toward the player in the cone. Once the weapons are moving, it doesn't matter that the target is in antimagic.

And then...some of his melee bruiser type minions that do really well in antimagic fields rush in.

[Alienist]

One of the books has this beautiful scenario.

There is an underground cavern, with a river of lava flowing through it. There is a narrow rock arch that goes over the lava, forming a bridge.

There is (stupidly hard DC to spot) a bit of a hole in the roof of the cavern, like a shaft. (Kind of like an alcove, but on the ceiling)

Naturally, the players will suspect that the bridge is a trap, and will Fly over the lava instead.

Naturally, the Beholder, hiding in the ceiling, will pop out and zap them with the anti-magic ray when they attempt to do so.

Naturally, when it comes down to a question of the PCs hit points vs lava, the lava will win.


BWAHAHAAHAHAHA. *wipes tear from eye*

[javijuji]

You could also hint the player that there might be a Beholder in this area and then have the Beholder be a Barbarian with a mouthpick weapon who charges at his enemies.

If you wanna go crazy look at the Beholder Mage class. Might wanna be careful thought cause it will rise the EL to impossible if played correctly.

[Xaragos]

The beholder's flyby attack feat allows it to redirect its antimagic cone twice with a single move action. Unfortunately the specific text in the Flyby Attack feat prevents it from moving twice in the same round by using its standard action as a second move action, but it can still do this:

Free Action: Fire 1 or more eye rays.
Move Action: Move, redirecting antimagic cone.
Flyby Attack: Fire 1 or more eye rays.
Move Action (continued): Move, redirecting antimagic cone.
Free Action: Fire 1 or more eye rays.

It still has a standard action remaining after that, which it can use in some other manner. Alternately, if it has a mouthpick weapon, it might use that as part of its flyby attack (in addition to firing eye rays at that point).

Give the beholder the Focused Antimagic and Disjunction Ray feats, but don't use the disjunction ray on the players' items (cause that's just not fun in general, and it even says in the text of the feat that beholders don't like to do that). Do use it to strip active buffs, and disjoin any unpleasant area spells that the beholder wants to get rid of.

You can also give the beholder some of the special beholder magical items from Lords of Madness. The three lenses can be quite useful, and are likely to be of far less usefulness to the players if they manage to obtain them as loot, unless one of them specializes in ray spells and uses them a lot. Give the beholder's finger of death ray a lens of ray chaining and a lens of ray doubling and you've suddenly got a beholder doing 3d6+13 damage to multiple targets every round, and forcing several saves vs. death with that ray.

Don't forget to use telekinesis to its full effect. The beholder likely has lots of weapons scattered about but hidden throughout its lair, where it can easily use them as projectiles for telekinesis. It's also great for bull rushing enemies into traps and the like.

And of course, charm monster and charm person rays mean that the beholder probably has no shortage of useful minions hanging around its lair. Make sure to use them to screen for it if it starts getting badly injured, so it can retreat, heal up, and come back from another angle.

A beholder with these feats should probably open combat by disjoining any spell effects on the most dangerous-looking of the PC's, then casting charm monster and charm person on a couple of them. If those rays overcome their saving throws, it'll give at least some time before those PC's start to attack him again.

He can then move, and mid-move, fire a chained, doubled finger of death at him, having the ray chain to everyone that wasn't affected by the charms, doing some guaranteed damage and possibly killing one or more of them. He can also throw flesh to stone and slow on the PC's. Since he's flyby attacking, he also hits one of them with his mouthpick weapon.

Then he completes his move. If he successfully charmed a couple of them, he doesn't want to include them in his antimagic ray, so he'll use focused antimagic to put the ray on the next most dangerous of them. If he failed to charm any of them, he'll just include them all in his antimagic cone. If he includes them all in his antimagic cone, he still has one move left - he uses telekinesis on some of the conveniently placed weapons somewhere outside the cone, launching them toward the player in the cone. Once the weapons are moving, it doesn't matter that the target is in antimagic.

And then...some of his melee bruiser type minions that do really well in antimagic fields rush in.

Is firing the rays a free action? I always thought them to be a standard. That can be pretty nasty in of itself, without some of the other creative ideas here.

So far I am thinking of a room with pit traps disguised by illusions. Then holes in the wall and ceiling also disguised by illusion so that the Beholder can use the tunnels to use the recommended flyby attack and surprise the party from different directions. Also a way to make a hasty escape if need be :)

[ahenobarbi]

Beholder can fire all 10 of its rays, 3 at one target max, and only in 90 degree angles.

Where 3 rays/target and 90 degree angles come from?

[hamishspence]

Page 25 MM:

"during a single round, a creature can aim only two eye rays (gauth) or three eye rays (beholder) at targets in any one 90-degree arc (up, forward, backward, right, left or down). The remaining eyes must aim at targets in other arcs, or not at all."

[Xaragos]

Page 25 MM:

"during a single round, a creature can aim only two eye rays (gauth) or three eye rays (beholder) at targets in any one 90-degree arc (up, forward, backward, right, left or down). The remaining eyes must aim at targets in other arcs, or not at all."

Thats where I am trying to figure out how to make it so that the Beholder can bring all 10 of those to bear even if they arent smack in the middle of the party :) Flyby attack is one suggestion...any others?

[Slipperychicken]

BWAHAHAAHAHAHA. *wipes tear from eye*

Is this scenario fair?

"Your Spot check reveals a hole above the bridge, through which something might fall"

"We fly across the chasm, carefully avoiding the bridge"

"No a Beholder comes out and zaps you with its antimagic eye ray. You fall and die in the lava. New characters."

Didn't think so.

[Mnemnosyne]

The problem with the 'drop them in lava' scenario is...what does the beholder get out of it? Unless this is the entrance to the beholder's lair, and it just wants the PCs to not get in. In that case, it has to know they're coming (a beholder isn't going to sit in a little cubby all day every day waiting for the first random people to show up at its lair, after all) and prepare for this. Overall, it's a peculiar situation, that given the beholder's motivations, is unlikely to make a lot of sense in general.

And yes, firing rays is a free action.

Another feat I thought of that the beholder should definitely take is Tomb-Tainted Soul, so it can use its inflict moderate wounds eye ray as self-healing. Throw that onto the beholder, and anytime it takes any appreciable damage, it can retreat down one of its many tunnels, then spend a couple rounds hitting itself with inflict moderate wounds to heal back up.

[Alleran]

If you wanna go crazy look at the Beholder Mage class. Might wanna be careful thought cause it will rise the EL to impossible if played correctly.
I would advise against using a Beholder Mage unless your players are extremely well-optimised. And are all casters.

A 12th level party will be eating fifty different flavours of dirt on the highway to the afterlife at speeds undreamed of in Horatio's philosophies against even a moderate to potentially poorly optimised Beholder Mage.

(IIRC, didn't somebody once do a matchup between four or five full-casting 20th level wizard spellcasters and one Beholder Mage... with the Beholder taking the victory just on the sheer magical horsepower it had alone?)

[The Glyphstone]

Thats where I am trying to figure out how to make it so that the Beholder can bring all 10 of those to bear even if they arent smack in the middle of the party :) Flyby attack is one suggestion...any others?

Beholders have Disintegrate at-will. Assuming this takes place in the beholder's lair, it should be a dizzying honeycomb of tunnels, pits, and passageways. If the Beholder waits at the bottom of a pit, it can fire all its rays 'up' at the party.

Slightly more cheesy, but if it takes Improved Flight to gain Perfect Maneuverability, there's nothing stopping it from doing the same thing from above by flying upside-down and attacking from a hole in the ceiling.This works extra-well because anyone who magically flies up to engage gets an AMF cone in the face and falls back to the ground hard.

[Mnemnosyne]

I wasn't able to find a rule stating that the beholder can fire all of its rays in the upward arc. The rule in the Monster Manual seems to clearly state otherwise.
During a single round, a creature can aim only two eye rays (gauth) or three eye rays (beholder) at targets in any one 90-degree arc (up, forward, backward, left, right, or down).Emphasis mine. Is there another later rule that contradicts this one that I'm missing?

[hamishspence]

I think there might be novels in which they do it- but not 3.5 rules for it.

[Aharon]

Thats where I am trying to figure out how to make it so that the Beholder can bring all 10 of those to bear even if they arent smack in the middle of the party :) Flyby attack is one suggestion...any others?

If you use facing rules, it could be argued that when the Beholder hovers in place and uses its move action to turn in place and intersperse free actions to shoot in the same direction, but relative to its own position, another arc.

Somebody provided a reason why this wouldn't work when I brought it up here once, but I don't remember what it was. I found it was a good reason and abandoned the idea.

[The Glyphstone]

I wasn't able to find a rule stating that the beholder can fire all of its rays in the upward arc. The rule in the Monster Manual seems to clearly state otherwise.Emphasis mine. Is there another later rule that contradicts this one that I'm missing?

Well I'll be dipped in molasses....maybe that was a 3.0 rule I'm mistakenly remembering?

[GeriSch]

A 12th level party will be eating fifty different flavours of dirt on the highway to the afterlife at speeds undreamed of in Horatio's philosophies against even a moderate to potentially poorly optimised Beholder Mage.


Yay, i have to sig this if you don't mind :smallbiggrin:

gr,
Geri

[Shining Wrath]

As I understand RAW, a beholder gets 3 rays + anti-magic ray per round regardless of relative orientation. I have been wrong before, though, but it does seem like enough.

Throw in Time Stop and said beholder is now arbitrarily buffed.

[Alleran]

Yay, i have to sig this if you don't mind :smallbiggrin:

gr,
Geri
Sure, go ahead.

[Deathra13]

If agile tyrant stacks, not sure if it does, you could replace its various feats with that. I believe that would allow it to bring up to seven eyes to bear on a single arc.

[Flickerdart]

Isn't there some kind of mirror that redirects rays, specifically used by beholders to angle their eye lasers at enemies?

[Crinias]

Isn't there some kind of mirror that redirects rays, specifically used by beholders to angle their eye lasers at enemies?

Yup!



Sphere Mirror: This large pane of glass measures 10 feet
tall by 5 feet wide. The item’s name, which seems at odds with
its rectangular shape, actually refers to the spherical shape of
a beholder’s body.

The glass surface of the mirror does not reflect light, and,
viewed under normal circumstances, it seems like little more
than an empty metal frame. The magic of the glass perfectly
reflects the image of any beholder that looks into it, up to a
range of 60 feet. The image is so perfect that it is very likely to
be mistaken for a live beholder; a DC 30 Spot check reveals the
truth but offers no additional protection from the beholder’s
eye rays.

A beholder can reflect and amplify any of its eye rays off the
surface of the mirror, effectively firing the ray from the location
of the mirror rather than from its eye. The beholder needs line
of sight to the mirror, but not line of effect. If it fires a ray at
an object it cannot see from its actual location or the mirror’s
location, the target gains the benefit of total concealment. It
is possible for a beholder to redirect its eye ray attacks around
numerous corners if multiple sphere mirrors are used, as long
as no two mirrors are more than 60 feet apart. A beholder must
use a standard action to focus on a sphere mirror, and can use
only one eye ray per round when employing this magic item.
Attacks made against the beholder’s reflected image do not
harm the beholder, although they might damage the mirror
itself, which has hardness 10 and 30 hit points.
A beholder cannot use a sphere mirror if its central eye is
open.
Strong illusion; CL 13th; Craft Wondrous Item, project image;
Price 91,000 gp; Weight 20 lb.

It's a shame you have to focus on the mirror as a standard action and can only use one eye ray per round, otherwise the mayhem would be simply amazing. Really though, anyone interested in beholders should just pick up Lords of Madness and never look back.

[Keld Denar]

I remember seeing a feat, perhaps in LoM, that gives a beholder the ability to artfully sculpt stuff with it's disintegrate eye ray. That could be used to make tunnels that aren't 10' squares.

If you want a bigger, badder beholder, repicking it's feats goes a long ways. Otherwise, a few more HD only increase CR by a little, and makes the DCs go up a fair bit.

[Xaragos]

Improved Flight would give the Beholder Perfect maneuverability so then that would translate to being able to hover upside down and therefore bring all 10 beams to bear on the party right? *edit add in Agile Tyrant too*

What about this combined with flyby attack?

Do you have any suggestions for taking care of their relatively low saves?

Awesome suggestion with the mirrors. I think I will place those around so even after it goes into the tunnels it can fire at least a beam at the party. Have those mirrors covered in illusions so they don't know what the heck is going on.

[Ranting Fool]

How about a nice trapped room where the floor splits up into different sections (splitting the party) allowing the beholder to float up between them and get the most zaps off :smallbiggrin:

[Xaragos]

Really good idea. Sectioning off places and separating the party. This is going to be one sick encounter.

Not trying to kill them off, but I want them to get that pit of the gut feeling they so often had at lower levels :)

[Ranting Fool]

Or a nasty trick I did awhile ago..... Shaped Walls Of Force making up a room with illusions on them to make them seem real (Should be a chance to notice) beholder opens up it's anti magic eye and party are now in falling into a big old Pit of Doom :smallbiggrin:

[Xaragos]

Ok on the flip side of this discussion. What are the most effective ways to counter a Beholder's gaze weapons? Things I should expect the PCs to use.

[The Glyphstone]

Ok on the flip side of this discussion. What are the most effective ways to counter a Beholder's gaze weapons? Things I should expect the PCs to use.

The Ray Deflection Spell, the Shield Ward feat, anything else to raise their Touch AC or saves.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Ok on the flip side of this discussion. What are the most effective ways to counter a Beholder's gaze weapons? Things I should expect the PCs to use.

Polymorph into something with high NA and cast scintillating scales?

[Mnemnosyne]

Friendly Fire.

[Alienist]

The problem with the 'drop them in lava' scenario is...what does the beholder get out of it?


It gets to live. Any party stupid enough to attack a Beholder is strong enough to beat it (practically by definition).

The Beholder has Int 17. Heck even a Gauth has Int 15. It may look like a dumb punching bag, but if you play it as one you're doing it (and the players) a huge disservice.



Another feat I thought of that the beholder should definitely take is Tomb-Tainted Soul, so it can use its inflict moderate wounds eye ray as self-healing. Throw that onto the beholder, and anytime it takes any appreciable damage, it can retreat down one of its many tunnels, then spend a couple rounds hitting itself with inflict moderate wounds to heal back up.

Nice trick. :D

[ahenobarbi]

It gets to live. Any party stupid enough to attack a Beholder is strong enough to beat it (practically by definition).

Each and every beholder (according to MM) believes it's The Bestest creature ever. So wouldn't it (acting on that belief) try to make killing lesser creatures more profitable?