Ability Focus + Manifesting = ?

[Rubik]

Every time I see psionic manifesting in a character-with-psionic-class-levels' entry, it's marked "psionics" under special attacks. If I'm reading that correctly, Ability Focus (Psionics) should grant +2 to the DCs of all powers I manifest if I play, say, a psion.

Something similar goes with spellcasters, as well.

Am I reading RAW correctly, or am I totally off my nut?

[HC Rainbow]

if I'm not mistaken I thought a Psionic Manefestation was a Spell Like Ability, and not a Special Attack. I was always told that ability focus was meant specifically for creatures, such as breath attacks, etc.

As a DM I would NEVER let my Psion take that feat for fear he would break the system, which he already manages to do.

Mainly I wouldnt let him take that because its a monster manual feat.

[Urpriest]

if I'm not mistaken I thought a Psionic Manefestation was a Spell Like Ability, and not a Special Attack. I was always told that ability focus was meant specifically for creatures, such as breath attacks, etc.

As a DM I would NEVER let my Psion take that feat for fear he would break the system, which he already manages to do.

Mainly I wouldnt let him take that because its a monster manual feat.

Spell Like Abilities are Special Attacks, and Monster Manual feats are for any monster, including PCs.

That said, this is one of two things: either it's the same trick that others have proposed with Supernatural Transformation, in which case it relies on some very sloppy wording, or you're simply relying on the fact that it appears in the Special Attacks line, in which case the same applies to Spellcasting and anything else that offers a save.

[HC Rainbow]

Spell Like Abilities are Special Attacks, and Monster Manual feats are for any monster, including PCs.

That said, this is one of two things: either it's the same trick that others have proposed with Supernatural Transformation, in which case it relies on some very sloppy wording, or you're simply relying on the fact that it appears in the Special Attacks line, in which case the same applies to Spellcasting and anything else that offers a save.

Ahh.. My mistake. Regardless there has to be something stopping a Psion from doing this, otherwise they would become very ridiculous, even in the eyes of a wizard.

[sreservoir]

Spell Like Abilities are Special Attacks, and Monster Manual feats are for any monster, including PCs.

That said, this is one of two things: either it's the same trick that others have proposed with Supernatural Transformation, in which case it relies on some very sloppy wording, or you're simply relying on the fact that it appears in the Special Attacks line, in which case the same applies to Spellcasting and anything else that offers a save.

manifesting is explicitly a PLA, and there is some direct equivalence between PLA and SLA. the same is not true of spellcasring.

[Urpriest]

manifesting is explicitly a PLA, and there is some direct equivalence between PLA and SLA. the same is not true of spellcasring.

Hence why I phrased my post the way I did. Either the OP is exploiting that direct equivalence, in which case he's relying on exploiting some aggressively sloppy and poorly thought-out wording, or he's simply trying to exploit the fact that manifesting is a special attack, in which case the same applies to spellcasting and anything else a character does that allows a save.

[SaintRidley]

Pretty sure the way spells, SLAs, powers, and PLAs are handled by Ability Focus is on the level of a single spell.

You can take Ability Focus (Fireball) but not Ability Focus (Spells), Ability Focus (Ego Whip), but not Ability Focus (Psionics).

[Rubik]

Hence why I phrased my post the way I did. Either the OP is exploiting that direct equivalence, in which case he's relying on exploiting some aggressively sloppy and poorly thought-out wording, or he's simply trying to exploit the fact that manifesting is a special attack, in which case the same applies to spellcasting and anything else a character does that allows a save.The latter, actually. Ability Focus applies to any ability when that ability allows for a save, not just Spell-Likes. It can apply to Natural, Supernatural, and Extraordinary abilities as well, so I don't know why it wouldn't apply to Psi-Likes and Spell-Likes. And since "psionics" is listed as one ability, it should apply...

[TuggyNE]

Pretty sure the way spells, SLAs, powers, and PLAs are handled by Ability Focus is on the level of a single spell.

You can take Ability Focus (Fireball) but not Ability Focus (Spells), Ability Focus (Ego Whip), but not Ability Focus (Psionics).

That would be nice, but the granularity of the Special Attacks is on the level of Spells/Psionics, not individual spells or powers, and that's what counts for the feat. Good RACSD decision, but not RAW.

[Psyren]

"(Psionics)" in the MM, and Psionics the system, are two different things. The former is for games that don't even have the XPH; when you do have actual psionics, you're supposed to replace that entry entirely.

However similar PLAs and SLAs are, they are still not the same thing, and transparency doesn't extend to feats.

[Urpriest]

"(Psionics)" in the MM, and Psionics the system, are two different things. The former is for games that don't even have the XPH; when you do have actual psionics, you're supposed to replace that entry entirely.

However similar PLAs and SLAs are, they are still not the same thing, and transparency doesn't extend to feats.

That said, NPCs with manifesting still have it listed in their Special Attacks, IIRC. So the argument should still go through.