Flavorful, but not overpowered, epic spells

[Moonwolf727]

The title of the thread should give away my base intention but I feel that it alone is not enough to fully convey the concept I am trying to achieve. What I am hoping to do with this thread to encourage our fellow playground goers to have a crack at making some new epic spells. Some that could really be used to have a dramatic impact on a campaign, either by the BBEG or by an epic player. I don't want these to be overpowered DC 0 spells nor do I wish to simply accumulate a legion of instant-win or impenetrable-buff spells.

In order to start everything off I would like to provide you with an example of what I am hoping for I.E something that can really have a tangible effect on the story of a game.


Arisen servant
Conjuration (Healing)
Spellcraft DC: 50
Components: V, S, DF, XP
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Dead creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving throw: None
Spell resistance: Yes (Harmless)
To develop: 450,000 gp; 9 days; 18,000 XP. Seeds: Compel (DC 19), Life (DC 27). Factors: Ensuring initial loyalty, outlook and personality (ad hoc +14 DC), 1-action casting time (+20 DC). Mitigating factors: Burn 3,000 XP (-30 DC).

Upon uttering the verbal component of this spell and performing the appropriate somatic gestures above the touched corpse it regenerates and arises as with a new life. The touched creature is raised from the dead as described in the life seed, including loss of a single level (or point of constitution if it was level one), however the soul which originally inhabited it need not consent to being raised because it isn't involved in the slightest. A entirely new soul is created and imbued into the corpse, the new sentient being possesses all of the original creatures memories, abilities (Including spell casting), Levels (barring the one lost) and is loyal to the caster. It's outlook, leftover vestiges of personality and alignment have all been altered to mesh better with the caster (the degree to which this is the case is decided upon by the DM). Even though the raised servant is entirely loyal to the caster upon being created it is under no magical compulsion to serve them, although it likely will due to the aforementioned loyalty and gratefulness, and over time can come to dislike or even be enemies with the caster if they reach too many disagreements or otherwise oppose each other.

XP Cost
3,000 XP.


A simple example of how that spell could be used to contribute to a campaigns story is that a dead party member or ally could be raised and subsequently turned to the opposing side, providing plenty of drama and opportunities for role play.

I am looking forward to seeing what you can make. :smallbiggrin:

[Slipperychicken]

Much more efficient (and safe!) to Rez the character into a position where he is at your mercy, beat him up until he can't resist (this should be easy, considering you have the jump on him, you're in a location of your choosing, and you're an epic spellcaster), and cast Mindrape until you win.

Why would a character smart enough to cast Epic spells allow the possibility of his servant to rebel?

Origin of Species (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/originOfSpeciesAchaierai.htm) has some story potential.

[Deaxsa]

cast Mindrape until you win.

what's mindrape? i take it that's not the name of the real spell.

[Ravenica]

that IS the name of the spell...

Many people on this board use the book of vile darkness a little too often :smalleek:

[Flickerdart]

Much more efficient (and safe!) to Rez the character into a position where he is at your mercy, beat him up until he can't resist (this should be easy, considering you have the jump on him, you're in a location of your choosing, and you're an epic spellcaster), and cast Mindrape until you win.
Except creatures can refuse to be resurrected, normally. So you'd still need something like the spell above.

[Silva Stormrage]

Except creatures can refuse to be resurrected, normally. So you'd still need something like the spell above.

You can animate them as an undead, control the undead and force them to accept the resurrection if you want them alive.

[Ravenica]

You can animate them as an undead, control the undead and force them to accept the resurrection if you want them alive.
won't work, even true res requires the undead to have been destroyed (and therefore out of your control) before it can bring them back

[Urpriest]

That said, this seems like a bit of a logistical nightmare...can the original still be resurrected with spells that don't require the body? Can true seeing or the like see that you've got a new and different person? What can?

Anyway, in terms of balanced epic spells, one important element is counters. There are a bunch of things that can't be protected from pre-epic, like Mordenkainen's Disjunction. Ideally, there would be epic abjurations to handle that. I'd take a look at the old Iron Siege threads on the WotC forums. They allowed characters with epic spells, but required them to be reasonable, and their reasonable spell ideas may overlap to some extent with yours.

[Ravens_cry]

Given things like Greater Teleport, it's easy to negate, but being a space fiend, I love the potential applications of Nailed to the Sky (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/nailedToTheSky.htm).Tweaked a little, and you got a space program right there.

[Slipperychicken]

Many people on this board use the book of vile darkness a little too often :smalleek:

In a game full of bad guys doing bad things to people, it helps to have sources which specialize in mechanics for that stuff. Similarly, the torture rules can be very helpful, since PCs (regardless of alignment) default to torture as a means of interrogation.

And it also helps to point at a book while you say "No, your Paladin will fall for killing the angel to harvest its wings".

[Flickerdart]

You can animate them as an undead, control the undead and force them to accept the resurrection if you want them alive.
Animating their body gives you no command whatsoever over their soul.

[Urpriest]

Animating their body gives you no command whatsoever over their soul.

No, but it does keep anyone else from resurrecting them. Plus, many non-mindless undead keep the souls of the original creature anyway.

[Phelix-Mu]

I once made a ritual spell for druids that created a cloud of flesh-eating spores that only ate dead flesh, including undead. Used to thwart necromancers and undead armies. Pretty cool, it was a plot device since several of the PCs could participate in the ritual.

Artifact spells and War spells both can fill a similar role to what the OP wants, effects that are cool enough to figure into the plot. Not quite flavorful, but you can avoid some of the silliness of epic spell design.

[Ravens_cry]

In a game full of bad guys doing bad things to people, it helps to have sources which specialize in mechanics for that stuff. Similarly, the torture rules can be very helpful, since PCs (regardless of alignment) default to torture as a means of interrogation.

No, they don't. Maybe yours do, but that's too broad a statement.

[Ravenica]

No, they don't. Maybe yours do, but that's too broad a statement.

I'm going to have to agree and raise the "how many times is mindrape suggested to be used by players on these forums especially as an argument to why wizards beat everything" argument as well.... google says too many :smalleek: lol

[Kazyan]

I'm going to have to agree and raise the "how many times is mindrape suggested to be used by players on these forums especially as an argument to why wizards beat everything" argument as well.... google says too many :smalleek: lol

On the optimization forums, every high-level character has Mind Blank and every Wizard bans Enchantment, except when someone wants to use Mindrape.

[Ravenica]

site:giantitp.com/forums mindrape into google turns up 14,700 results...

TELL me thats not disturbing :smallwink:

Enworld and min/max bring it up often too but I find it specifically getting called out for player use way more often here :smalltongue:

[herrhauptmann]

I once made a ritual spell for druids that created a cloud of flesh-eating spores that only ate dead flesh, including undead. Used to thwart necromancers and undead armies. Pretty cool, it was a plot device since several of the PCs could participate in the ritual.

How do you protect your own gear that's made from leather?

[Phelix-Mu]

On the optimization forums, every high-level character has Mind Blank and every Wizard bans Enchantment, except when someone wants to use Mindrape.

Mindrape is much, much better as a plot device than as a tool. Any decent NPC that doesn't have some work around for mindrape isn't thinking too hard about worst case scenarios, and thus is pretty fail (especially if he/she is a caster). Similarly, using it on PCs is not as cool as having it happen to people the PCs care about.

[Phelix-Mu]

How do you protect your own gear that's made from leather?

The primary caster was VoP in this case, so he didn't wear armour. The caster decides where the cloud appears and directs its movement. Don't allow allies to be caught in the area of effect, I guess. The druids didn't care about much aside from the annihilation of the undead army, so a little collateral leather armour loss was permissible.

[Larkas]

I once made a ritual spell for druids that created a cloud of flesh-eating spores that only ate dead flesh, including undead. Used to thwart necromancers and undead armies. Pretty cool, it was a plot device since several of the PCs could participate in the ritual.

And suddenly you have a magical version of chemical peel techniques. I'm sure that druid must be very popular with all the nymphs and dryads around, not to mention all the elven maidens! Great use for an epic spell! :smallbiggrin:

[herrhauptmann]

And suddenly you have a magical version of chemical peel techniques. I'm sure that druid must be very popular with all the nymphs and dryads around, not to mention all the elven maidens! Great use for an epic spell! :smallbiggrin:

I dunno, do chemical peels take out hair too? I doubt all the ladies are digging the chemo-patient look.

[Flickerdart]

No, but it does keep anyone else from resurrecting them. Plus, many non-mindless undead keep the souls of the original creature anyway.
The point is that [animated corpse of guy] is not the same creature as [living guy] and commanding one does not allow you to force the other to accept coming back to life.

[Urpriest]

The point is that [animated corpse of guy] is not the same creature as [living guy] and commanding one does not allow you to force the other to accept coming back to life.

Ah I see. I misread the post you quoted as "force them to accept the resurrection if they want to live", rather than what it actually said.

[Larkas]

I dunno, do chemical peels take out hair too? I doubt all the ladies are digging the chemo-patient look.

Hey, we're talking epic spells here, I'm sure you can shape the spell however you want! Also, painless bikini wax! :smallbiggrin:

[Starbuck_II]

The title of the thread should give away my base intention but I feel that it alone is not enough to fully convey the concept I am trying to achieve. What I am hoping to do with this thread to encourage our fellow playground goers to have a crack at making some new epic spells. Some that could really be used to have a dramatic impact on a campaign, either by the BBEG or by an epic player. I don't want these to be overpowered DC 0 spells nor do I wish to simply accumulate a legion of instant-win or impenetrable-buff spells.
I am looking forward to seeing what you can make. :smallbiggrin:



Bladeturn
Abjuration
Spellcraft DC: 30
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 10 minute
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Until expended or 24 hours
To Develop: 270,000 gp, 10,800 xp. Seed: Reflect (DC 27). Factor: 100% duration (+2 DC), 5 extra attacks reflected (+20 DC) . Mitigating Factor: increase casting time to 10 minutes (-18 DC), burn 100xp (-1 DC).

While this spell is active, the creature protected automatically turns the first 10 melee attacks he receives back on their source. The reflected attack rebounds on the attacker using the same attack roll. Once the allotted attacks are reflected, the spell expires.

What about that?

Or this:

Destroch's Acid Rain
Evocation [Acid]
Spellcraft DC: 34
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 minute
Area: 2 mile radius, centered on the caster
Duration: 20 hours
Saving Throw: Yes
Spell Resistance: Yes
To Develop: 306,000gp; 7 days; 12,240 XP. Seed: Energy (weather) 25DC; Seed: Energy 19 DC. Factors: Recurring damage (ad hoc +10 DC). Mitigating Factors: Burn 2,000 XP (-20 DC)

Destroch's Acid Rain summons forth a large unmoving raincloud that forms during 10 minutes after the spell has been cast. The raincloud then releases a
torrential downpour of potent acid that dissolves everything caught in the rea dealing 10d6 damage every minute. The acid continues to pour down within the area for 20 hours, usually leaving behind nothing but a bare infertile field.
XP Cost: 2,000 XP



Lesser Crimson Wall
Evocation, Necromancy (Death)
Spellcraft DC: 19
Seeds: Energy (Wall/Dome form) (DC 19), Slay (Negative Levels) (DC 25)
Casting Time: 11 Minutes
Range: 300 feet
Area: Wall with area of up to one 200 foot square
Duration: 20 hours
Saving Throw: See Text
SR: Yes
Mitigating Factors: Increase Casting Time by 10 minutes (-20 DC), decrease Damage Die by 1 step (on Energy; damage die d4)

This potent, simple spell brings into existence a flaming wall of death. Anyone passing through the wall takes 2d4+20 points of Fire damage and must make a Fortitude save or receive 2d4 Negative Levels. Those merely passing within one side of the wall (chosen by the caster at the time of casting) take 2d4 damage if within 10 feet of the wall, or 1d4 damage if within 20 feet of the wall. Creatures are allowed a Reflex save to reduce the Fire damage by half.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

I had one idea for a campaign, some time ago, that would have revolved around the end of the world - not preventing it, but surviving it, protecting the creation of the next world, and eventually making their way into it. Sort of an "It's actually the universe's time to go" thing, rather than a "Some madman is trying to destroy the universe" thing.

As part of this, a number of forces from outside the mortal world had begun to come in, either to play their role in the apocalypse, or to settle the last of their business with this world, or to mess around (As their actions no longer mattered.) There was one super-being smith who came down and started to enchant artifact-quality weapons for free, something which took him only a few seconds to do; this was actually part of a bet about how the microcosm and macrocosm mirror, and whether the influx of weapons would directly lead to a more violent apocalypse.

Anyway, mixed in with this were a number of epic spells that had world-wide consequences. The only one I remember was a very simple spell; all it did was open locks.

All locks. Everywhere. At once.

Trying to remember the others, cause I had some fun ones in there. Will let you know if I do.

[Flickerdart]

Or this:

Destroch's Acid Rain
Evocation [Acid]
Spellcraft DC: 34
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 minute
Area: 2 mile radius, centered on the caster
Duration: 20 hours
Saving Throw: Yes
Spell Resistance: Yes
To Develop: 306,000gp; 7 days; 12,240 XP. Seed: Energy (weather) 25DC; Seed: Energy 19 DC. Factors: Recurring damage (ad hoc +10 DC). Mitigating Factors: Burn 2,000 XP (-20 DC)

Destroch's Acid Rain summons forth a large unmoving raincloud that forms during 10 minutes after the spell has been cast. The raincloud then releases a
torrential downpour of potent acid that dissolves everything caught in the rea dealing 10d6 damage every minute. The acid continues to pour down within the area for 20 hours, usually leaving behind nothing but a bare infertile field.
XP Cost: 2,000 XP


Should be 1d6/round rather than 10d6 per minute, because then you get weird things like people standing in the rain for a minute with nothing happening and suddenly they die.

[Starbuck_II]

Should be 1d6/round rather than 10d6 per minute, because then you get weird things like people standing in the rain for a minute with nothing happening and suddenly they die.

True, but 1d6 can't harm an object with Hardness and 10d6 can.

[Ravens_cry]

True, but 1d6 can't harm an object with Hardness and 10d6 can.
Not to mention being completely nullified by a second level spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resistEnergy.htm) at minimum caster level.

[Flickerdart]

If an object is waterproof, and you rain water on it, nothing will happen. If an object is acidproof and you rain acid on it, why do you expect a different result? "A pitter-patter of acid isn't strong enough to dissolve most things" isn't nearly as silly as "every 60 seconds, a whole bunch of stuff falls down, but between those points nothing happens".

[Slipperychicken]

True, but 1d6 can't harm an object with Hardness and 10d6 can.

Acid bypasses hardness.

[Starbuck_II]

Acid bypasses hardness.

Not exactly:
Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit. Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 4 before applying the hardness.

It isn't reduced like fire, Cold, Electric, but only psionic sonic ignores hardness.

According to this link, the FAQ said hardness applies: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156620

Saph agrees and I respect her opinion as well.

[Phelix-Mu]

"A pitter-patter of acid isn't strong enough to dissolve most things" isn't nearly as silly as "every 60 seconds, a whole bunch of stuff falls down, but between those points nothing happens".

Hmm, but don't most spells that deal ongoing damage work this way? The damage is "ongoing," but you really only need to dodge the damage at the exact turn on initiative in which it is applied (usually on the turn of the caster/originator of effect, or on the turn of the target). As long as you are immune at the instant that the damage is registered, I think you don't take any damage at all. Hmm, on second though, I really don't know if any of what I just said is true.....:smallcool:

I do kind of agree on the point about 10d6 a minute being weird. But I think you can pretty much do w/e you want with epic spells, so who are we to question. It was very affordable as epic spells go, too. You could always jack up the DC to make it more dangerous to people, instead of mostly dangerous to terrain features/structures.

[Bronk]

I've been trying to come up with a spell that is similar to Mass Frog, except that I want it to mimic 'Baleful Polymorph'. Mass Frog just turns everything into frogs but they keep their minds. I want to turn everything into chickens, but have the possibility of having the minds of chickens.

Would that entail the Compel seed somehow? Is there a better seed to use for this? Or would this be more of an increase in the spellcraft DC?

[Slipperychicken]

Not exactly:

I mean, it's supposed to bypass Hardness. And makes logical sense to do so. And there's no reason the writers would specify it "deals damage... as they do to creatures" if they intended Acid damage to be reduced (they just wouldn't have included that line if it wasn't supposed to be an exception).

It's like drown-healing, or deciding that nonmagical fire can't deal damage to a wooden object, because the stick has Hardness 5 and Fire only deals 1d6 damage which is halved against most objects. Completely asinine and missing the point, in unflinching service of RAW.

[TuggyNE]

Hmm, but don't most spells that deal ongoing damage work this way? The damage is "ongoing," but you really only need to dodge the damage at the exact turn on initiative in which it is applied (usually on the turn of the caster/originator of effect, or on the turn of the target). As long as you are immune at the instant that the damage is registered, I think you don't take any damage at all. Hmm, on second though, I really don't know if any of what I just said is true.....:smallcool:

That's true, but unavoidable: there simply isn't any finer resolution time-wise than a round (the various action types have no listed duration). So continuous damage has to be accounted for on a round-by-round basis perforce; there's no other option.

[Madeiner]

The hardness thing can easily be resolved by adding a clause:

The damage from the spell is counted as a single source each minute for purposes of damage reduction.
It is after all an epic spell, mustn't be negated by low level spells.

So you do take 1d6 damage each round, but if you have resistance 10, you negate the first 10 damage you take each minute.

[TuggyNE]

The hardness thing can easily be resolved by adding a clause:

The damage from the spell is counted as a single source each minute for purposes of damage reduction.
It is after all an epic spell, mustn't be negated by low level spells.

So you do take 1d6 damage each round, but if you have resistance 10, you negate the first 10 damage you take each minute.

You mean energy resistance, not damage reduction. Otherwise, yes.

[Ravens_cry]

The hardness thing can easily be resolved by adding a clause:

The damage from the spell is counted as a single source each minute for purposes of damage reduction.
It is after all an epic spell, mustn't be negated by low level spells.

So you do take 1d6 damage each round, but if you have resistance 10, you negate the first 10 damage you take each minute.
Even with what you actually meant, how does that bypass hardness?
Also, It is still almost entirely negated on average by a max CL resist energy as, if my math is right, 35 average every minute.
It's also still confusing what happens. Do you once every minute gain back 10, 20 or 30 hit points?
Also, protection from energy still guts it for the duration as it provides not resistance but outright immunity within a certain limit. Once it is about to fill up, bam, pop another one.

[Darius Kane]

I like the spell Eidolon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/eidolon.htm).

[Cirrylius]

I worked out the math for a very similar spell to the acid storm, once. If you're going for a large-scale effect rather than damage, just have it deal 2d6. The duration is 20 hours, so over that period anything with less than hardness 12 WILL melt/collapse. Eventually.

[Starbuck_II]

It's like drown-healing, or deciding that nonmagical fire can't deal damage to a wooden object, because the stick has Hardness 5 and Fire only deals 1d6 damage which is halved against most objects. Completely asinine and missing the point, in unflinching service of RAW.

Haven't you always wondered why it is so hard to start a fire? Because of the hardness of wood. :smallbiggrin:
Because wood is vulnerable to fire it isn't reduced like normal (1/2).