Pathfinder - Battle Cleric

[Nullmancer]

Hey guys, I joined a group of pathfinder guys and so far, I've been having a lot of fun being the tank/caster of the group. For the first few levels, I know combat is really the only thing I have to utilize since spells are few and hard to come by. Also, I don't much like metamagic feats since they sacrifice spells (the same philosophy I had in D&D 3.5). So, I'd like to focus on combat feats mostly.

At first, I made a level 1 cleric of Torag, but having 14 health and 18 AC in the beginning auto-locked me into the tank position. I actually prefer the tank spot versus healing everyone (because i've done healing for 5 years and I'm burnt out on it). With that being said, do you have any advice for an aspiring battle cleric who likes sword and board?

Here's what I'm looking at:

Str 18
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 15
Cha 13

Human Cleric of Torag 1

Feats:
Heavy Armor Prof.
Toughness

The kind of build I'm looking for is something that will utilize my strength as a combat advantage, yet refrain from hindering my magic capabilities. Prestige classes are welcome, and in fact, I've been looking into Holy Vindicator as a PrC to work towards. I would prefer a sword and board play style since I like being up front, but, if the feats required for it are too numerous to make such a build viable, using a two-handed weapon with power attack is also an option. Any thoughts?

[Xerxus]

I would pull off five levels of fighter with the tower shield specialist archetype and get the shield focus + specialization, to get the most out of using a shield (tower shield). Though this is only if you want to be a shielded tank (and your DM goes along with attacking you since he might as well not, unless you find some way to force him to). Another more viable way is to go cleric till lvl 7, using a dwarven waraxe and putting weapon focus and power attack + the necessary aligned channel feat thing in there. Since the only reason to use a shield is for that one class feature and once you are hit you lose the bonus, you might as well drop the shield once that happens and twohand it. Before getting any vindicator levels you might as well twohand it all the time from level 3 onward. Then you go for the cleave feat tree.

This is just if you actually want to be a holy vindicator.

[VeggieWombat]

Don't multiclass ! Seriously, spells are still the best way to be a better fighter than the fight, so deal with the lack of feats for 2 levels.
I understand what you say, about being a bandaid, i just burned my daily allowance of spells on cure light wounds (level 3 Battle Oracle of Gorum & stuff, not the band-aid type ^^ )

Being a doesn't doesn't mean investing like a mad men in the shield stuff.
"Being a tank" means that no one is able to get pass you, and hit you squishy friends. If you're just a bunch of HP and armor, your friends will be slaughtered, and you'll get down with a little time.

Throw buffs around. Bonus to AC and to-hit means that your allies will take less hits each round, and the combat will be shorter, so even less damage.
I'd say : focus on buffs, and hit stuff around.

If you need to be a roadblock in a hallway, : Hide armor + Tower shield + Total defense will give you 23 AC...

Anyway, add more details about your group, i can only help.

Edit : how the hell do you got 14HP ? 8 base + 2CON +1 Toughness + 1 Fav.class = 12 ?

[Baroncognito]

Edit : how the hell do you got 14HP ? 8 base + 2CON +1 Toughness + 1 Fav.class = 12 ?

+3 for toughness at first level, then nothing for two levels, then +1 for toughness at 4th level.

[Occasional Sage]

Edit : how the hell do you got 14HP ? 8 base + 2CON +1 Toughness + 1 Fav.class = 12 ?


No favored class bonus at first level, just as a point of interest.

[Baroncognito]

No favored class bonus at first level, just as a point of interest.

I'm inclined to believe there is:

The choice of favored class cannot be changed once the character is created, and the choice of gaining a hit point or a skill rank each time a character gains a level (including his first level)

[Squirrel_Dude]

If you multiclass at all, I would do a 2 to 3 level dip in Paladin. You'll get the basic stuff (lay on hands, smite evil), bonuses to all your saves, and increase your BAB.

As for combat style, I would actually go sword and board because there isn't a good two-handed weapon on the cleric list, and you have the warhammer (a good 1 handed weapon) as a proficiency already. The Holy Vindicator can give himself a large boost to AC when he uses a shield, so I would take advantage of that.

[Ravens_cry]

Are you allowed the old Campaign Setting guide Battle Cleric? Trade away your domains for heavy weapon proficiency, full BAB, and d10 hit die?

[Gavinfoxx]

So have you read the handbooks?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/rogue-eidolon-s-lab/rogue-eidolon-s-guide-to-clerics

http://pfs.shadowsofcommand.com/Cleric%20Optomization.htm

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/beckett-s-lab

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1h6-_4HvPvV-Tt7I67Gi_oPhgHmeDVA5SBl-WrJSgf5s/edit?hl=en#

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13218094#post13218094

[navar100]

Have you played yet? If you're still in character creation mode then perhaps switch your wisdom and charisma and play an Oracle of Battle Mystery instead. Be proficient in heavy armor and martial weapons and always act in a surprise are the favorite goodies. As a spontaneous caster you get to spam buff spells when needed. For example, a cleric most likely prepares only one Bull's Strength. As an oracle, just before the BBEG fight you know is about to happen you can buff everyone in the party with Bull's Strength who could use it or any other non-personal buff spell you know.

Even if you'll stay with cleric (not a bad choice), consider lumping not using a shield, wield a weapon two-handed, and use Power Attack for the -1/+3 ratio from 3rd level on. At 5th level take Furious Focus and don't have any penalty to hit using Power Attack for your first attack which you're only getting one of anyway. At 8th level when you get a second attack that takes the Power Attack penalty, but that's what your 18 Strength and buffs are for to offset.

[Nullmancer]

The group consists of:
2 clerics
- Me
- One that worships the fire god and fills in for everything I don't do (healing or taking my place when I take too much damage)
2 Fighters
- Both melee beat sticks
1 Oracle - She generally buffs the group when she can. Other than that, she just stands around and lets us do our business
1 Sorcerer - A chaotic evil person in real life attempting to play a neutral good tiefling in a campaign where everyone hates demon looking things.

I've been at the forefront of every fight, healing, dealing damage, and being the roadblock between my allies that are dying and the enemy that is slowly killing me. (seriously, I had my dex reduced to 2 just to save their asses from a cockatrice)

I've already made my character, so I can't adjust him. The strengths of this group is that they can take a lot of damage. Other than that, they don't do much. I end up providing the damage that's needed, since our sorcerer doesn't know how to play a sorcerer, and the oracle just kind of sits on her butt buffing with her one spell for the day, and then fumbling with her fingers afterwards. I'm the dude who picks up for everyone else because no one else does their research. I was the dude who had to drag the fighter back to town, even though if we'd waited one more day (because the party wanted treasure), he would have turned into a flying tentacle monster. <.<

[Metahuman1]

In about 4-7 levels, Start investing in Lesser Metamagic Rods of Persist. Use them to get some of your choice buffs going all day.

If you can make to long enough to do that, you'll be golden.

[Baroncognito]

In about 4-7 levels, Start investing in Lesser Metamagic Rods of Persist. Use them to get some of your choice buffs going all day.

If you can make to long enough to do that, you'll be golden.

This is pathfinder, persist doesn't do that anymore.

[navar100]

Still take Power Attack and Furious Focus. Since your Wisdom won't be optimal don't bother preparing attack spells. Concentrate on buffs and remove afflictions. Buff yourself and the other fighters. Don't multiclass. You don't need to. If you really, really want to anyway, that's fine. You just don't need to be a front-line warrior. Fighter is an option for the feats, naturally, plus martial weapons and heavy armor. Once your Charisma is 16 Paladin is a viable option instead for Divine Grace along with heavy armor and martial weapons. You'll only have one Smite Evil so use it for the BBEG and their lieutenants. The extra damage isn't much, but the pluses to hit and AC are what matters. However, go with fighter if you're feat starved.

Going this route with two-handed Power Attack, Shield of Faith becomes your BFF to make up the AC loss for lack of a shield until you get a Ring of Protection 2+.

[Baroncognito]

Going this route with two-handed Power Attack, Shield of Faith becomes your BFF to make up the AC loss for lack of a shield until you get a Ring of Protection 2+.

Since Shield of Faith is a shield bonus and Ring of Protection is a deflection bonus, what's wrong with both?

Edit; Ah. I see. Shield of Faith is a deflection bonus. I hadn't known that.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Since Shield of Faith is a shield bonus and Ring of Protection is a deflection bonus, what's wrong with both?

Edit; Ah. I see. Shield of Faith is a deflection bonus. I hadn't known that.It's also required to make the Ring of Protection, so try and take advantage of that.

Also if you do decide that you want to multiclass, I would as your DM if you could change your feats up. No reason to take heavy armor proficiency if you're just going to gain it from another class, and you'll want quite a few feats to deal damage as a tank and be a holy vindicator.

Off the top of my head:
As previously mentioned; Power attack and Furius Focus
Extra Channel
Alignment Channel or Elemental Channel.

That's 3 to 4 feats, and normally you want to enter a prestige class at 6th to 8th level. Y

[Metahuman1]

This is pathfinder, persist doesn't do that anymore.

I though there was a Persist version that was Pathfinder Legal, just not a Divine Meta Magic, hence me suggesting some rods instead of DMM and Nightsticks.

[Gavinfoxx]

I though there was a Persist version that was Pathfinder Legal, just not a Divine Meta Magic, hence me suggesting some rods instead of DMM and Nightsticks.

Yea, but it still doesn't do that any more. Persist does an entirely different thing.

[Metahuman1]

Huh, what does Persist do now if not make spells last all day?

[Ravens_cry]

Huh, what does Persist do now if not make spells last all day?
Makes enemies have to save twice (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/persistent-spell-metamagic).

[Metahuman1]

Huh, well, advice withdrawn then.

[Nullmancer]

Thanks for your help with this, guys. I appreciate it.

Here is an idea I came across. Once a ranger achieves 2nd level, they get two-weapon fighting as a feat per choice. What if I went a little like this for my build?

1 - Cleric
2 - Ranger
3 - Ranger: Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Shield Bash
4 - Cleric
5 - Cleric - Alignment Channel (Evil)
6 - Cleric
7 - Holy Vindicator - Shield Slam
8
9 - Holy Vindicator - Saving Shield
10
11 - Cleric - Tower Shield Proficiency (one of my goals is to make a tower shield light enough to bash with)
12
13 - Cleric - Shield Mastery

Any thoughts on this?

[Gavinfoxx]

I would, uh, not ever lose a caster level of Cleric.

I also wouldn't focus on Tower Shields.

Seriously -- you have to think a bit -- is what you are thinking of doing supported by the game as a good idea??

And did you read the Handbooks? You are asking questions as if you haven't!

Clerics are just fine melee combatants on their own!

[Nullmancer]

Duly noted, thank you

[Zubrowka74]

In the APG there are ranger variants with Sword'n'board fighting style. Also THF and even X-bow. Takes the flavor out of the class, if you ask me, but it's RAW.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Woah there! Do not use a tower shield if you are going sword and board fighting style. You can not shield bash with a tower shield.

[Xerxus]

Woah there! Do not use a tower shield if you are going sword and board fighting style. You can not shield bash with a tower shield.

You can't pull off a shield basher with a straight cleric anyway. Too many feats, too little attack bonus. The idea behind the tower shield was the five levels of tower shield specialist, and the point was getting shield specialization for five points of very useful CMD. The fifth level removes the to hit penalty from tower shield.

[Occasional Sage]

I'm inclined to believe there is:

Well heck, lookit that. I have a character sheet to update.