Advice: Warlock Gish

[barna10]

So, I want to make a Warlock that runs around in full plate, think a black knight from fairy tales.

What dips and such would you recommend to make this happen?

[Lostbutseeking]

The Battle caster feat (CA) will let a warlock cast in medium armor without penalty. Which means mithril full plate.

Otherwise you just have to mitigate the ASF, Spellsword will work, as will the twilight armor enchant from BOED, Feycraft from the DMG2 and the Thistledown extra from RotW.

[Tokuhara]

On the same topic (the Warlock Gish, not the "Guy in Armor"), is there a viable way to do Warlock as a hybrid Melee/Blaster?

[Snowbluff]

Well, it looks like you're going to want to use Eldritch Glaive or Eldritch Claws (from the Dragon Mags).

Eldritch Claws works best with Monk related stuff, so it is not really an option in Full Plate.

For the Glaive, I would suggest Escalation Mage, which can be used to quicken a Full Action Glaive into a Swift action. Demonbinder from Drow of the Underdark can give you some Temporary HP and other extra abilities that can be useful.

If you really want to crank out damage, the Glaive is a Melee Attack (and the word "weapon" never appears in Power attack's Benefits). Standard Hellfire Warlock and Uncanny Trickster/Legacy Champion wackiness are always an option for damage.

[Tokuhara]

Well, it looks like you're going to want to use Eldritch Glaive or Eldritch Claws (from the Dragon Mags).

Eldritch Claws works best with Monk related stuff, so it is not really an option in Full Plate.

For the Glaive, I would suggest Escalation Mage, which can be used to quicken a Full Action Glaive into a Swift action. Demonbinder from Drow of the Underdark can give you some Temporary HP and other extra abilities that can be useful.

If you really want to crank out damage, the Glaive is a Melee Attack (and the word "weapon" never appears in Power attack's Benefits). Standard Hellfire Warlock and Uncanny Trickster/Legacy Champion wackiness are always an option for damage.

Well, my question stems from being in a mostly beatstick party and I almost wanted the option to be able to switch-hit between melee and ranged as needed (outshoot what I can't outfight and outfight what I can't outshoot). Again, this is a party with 4 melee-based PCs who are as follows:

A cleric (non-beatstick)
a druid (non-beatstick)
a Half-Ogre Fighter (mostly beatstick with a BFR [big ******* rock])
a Goliath Barbarian (Beatstick)
A rogue (beatstick, in a sort)
and a Swordsage (one-hit wonder beatstick)

[Snowbluff]

Well, my question stems from being in a mostly beatstick party and I almost wanted the option to be able to switch-hit between melee and ranged as needed (outshoot what I can't outfight and outfight what I can't outshoot).

Ranged Shooting DPR? I would advise against it, but if you are doing that HF lock con queso you should have the switch hitting part down. The trick is that you hit on a Touch with Glaive and Blast. Once you get Vitriolic Blast, you don't have to worry about SR anymore. I think you can do a little better with BFC than the Barbarian, lending you some utility.

[AmberVael]

So, I want to make a Warlock that runs around in full plate, think a black knight from fairy tales.

What dips and such would you recommend to make this happen?

Generally, the most available resource to a D&D character (and thus the best thing to spend) is gold. So I would recommend getting the Full Plate part of things purely by spending gold, if possible.

Fortunately, you can do it. It's expensive, but possible. Most of the items needed to do so have already been mentioned by Lostbutseeking, but I'll give a full accounting here just for completion's sake.

First, make the armor Mithral, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#mithral) for a 10% reduction in ASF.
If you add a a Thistledown Suit (Races of the Wild, page 168), you can reduce ASF by a further 5%.
Make the armor Feycraft (Dungeon Master's Guide II, page 274), you can reduce the ASF by another 5%.
Make the armor Githcraft (DMG II, page 276), you reduce it by a final 5%.
Enchant the item to be +1 and give it the Twilight property (Magic Item Compendium page 15), and you bring the ASF of full plate armor down by the final 10% down to 0.

The stats of the final armor are like so:
+9 AC, +3 max dex, -4 ACP, 0% ASF
Cost: 15,850 gold.

If you feel inclined to make it more amusing, you can add in the Nimble enchantment from the Magic Item Compendium (page 13), and reduce the ACP to -2, and move the max dex bonus up to +4. At which point the armor would cost 20,850 gold..

Such armor would be very hard to come by, as it would have to be mithral armor supplemented by silken fabric forged on the Astral plane by a githyanki under the magical influence of a fey, then later enchanted, but procuring it would be well worth the effort, if only for style and awesomeness points. :smallwink:

[Tokuhara]

Ranged Shooting DPR? I would advise against it, but if you are doing that HF lock con queso you should have the switch hitting part down. The trick is that you hit on a Touch with Glaive and Blast. Once you get Vitriolic Blast, you don't have to worry about SR anymore. I think you can do a little better with BFC than the Barbarian, lending you some utility.

The issue is the game is this coming Sunday, and I'm outta ideas. If you want, we can PM so I can get some help, but the jist is it's a Faerun game starting at 3 with all written sources (1st, 2nd, and 3rd party) available. you've seen the party, and I dunno the "theme" of the game. Do note this is a mostly Good party (the druid is heading to Lion of Talisid and the Cleric is heading to a reskin of Radiant Servant of Pelor)

[Snowbluff]

The issue is the game is this coming Sunday, and I'm outta ideas. If you want, we can PM so I can get some help, but the jist is it's a Faerun game starting at 3 with all written sources (1st, 2nd, and 3rd party) available. you've seen the party, and I dunno the "theme" of the game. Do note this is a mostly Good party (the druid is heading to Lion of Talisid and the Cleric is heading to a reskin of Radiant Servant of Pelor)
If first/second party material is allowed, make a carbon-copied version of Hellfire Warlock, but with Good instead of Evil. Fluff the Con damage as you selflessly providing the energy for your attacks with your own substance.

I'd rather not PM. My message box tends to get really full, otherwise.

[Tokuhara]

If first/second party material is allowed, make a carbon-copied version of Hellfire Warlock, but with Good instead of Evil. Fluff the Con damage as you selflessly providing the energy for your attacks with your own substance.

I'd rather not PM. My message box tends to get really full, otherwise.

The DM is slightly strict on the fluff of the class. Plus, I know that the idea of a HF Warlock would get me some dirty looks from the Cleric and the Exalted Druid.

[Snowbluff]

The DM is slightly strict on the fluff of the class.

Really, because this directly conflicts with what I was told about the Cleric refluffing Radiant Servant of Pelor.:smalltongue:

Another idea, assuming your DM allows Practiced Spellcaster to work with EB progression, is to be an Enlightened Spirit, using Practiced Spellcaster to overcrank your EB a little.

This is all for Ranged Damage. Your Glaive is easier to hit with than most melee attacks, and should do fine.

[Lonely Tylenol]

The DM is slightly strict on the fluff of the class. Plus, I know that the idea of a HF Warlock would get me some dirty looks from the Cleric and the Exalted Druid.

I'm not seeing the conflict here. Hellfire Warlock doesn't have an "Alignment: Any Evil" restriction (you just must know Infernal). You're a Hellfire Warlock who "steals" power from the devils themselves--committing the ultimate act of good by subjugating evil. You are, in essence, the Malconvoker of invokers.

[Tokuhara]

Really, because this directly conflicts with what I was told about the Cleric refluffing Radiant Servant of Pelor.:smalltongue:

Another idea, assuming your DM allows Practiced Spellcaster to work with EB progression, is to be an Enlightened Spirit, using Practiced Spellcaster to overcrank your EB a little.

This is all for Ranged Damage. Your Glaive is easier to hit with than most melee attacks, and should do fine.

The only thing for RSoP is that Pelor isn't a Faerun deity, so he is instead choosing another sun deity instead of the Greyhawk Pelor.

As for Warlock specifically, I'm open to ideas for not just builds, but classes and ideas. The party handed me a proverbial grenade and said, "congratulations. you're the party's blaster. have fun."

[Snowbluff]

Here is the handbook I zombified. (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265455) I am currently in the process of sprucing it up. Feel free to look at it while I figure something out.

Blowing Stuff Up is the name of the game for Eldritch Theurge, but they don't melee so well. You'll have to make compromises between melee and range for warlock.

Other possible (and odd) classes would be things like the Incarnate or Binder. They can do some handfuls of d6 as well. Wizard would be a good choice as well.


I'm not seeing the conflict here. Hellfire Warlock doesn't have an "Alignment: Any Evil" restriction (you just must know Infernal). You're a Hellfire Warlock who "steals" power from the devils themselves--committing the ultimate act of good by subjugating evil. You are, in essence, the Malconvoker of invokers.
It requires openly consorting with diabolic forces. Even if what you are saying was the case, you are easily getting the raw end of the deal. They get some juicy life essence that they may perform untold evil with, while you gain some piddly d6 a lower level Warlock can put out himself.

[Larkas]

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211104) might be helpful. It IS third-party material, after all, and better brewed than 90% of the stuff published out there...

[Lonely Tylenol]

It requires openly consorting with diabolic forces. Even if what you are saying was the case, you are easily getting the raw end of the deal. They get some juicy life essence that they may perform untold evil with, while you gain some piddly d6 a lower level Warlock can put out himself.

So does the Malconvoker (which is actually explicitly non-Evil). It's bound to the fluff. There is nothing that says having direct contact with the forces of evil, by default, makes you an evil person yourself, and only three words--know thine enemy--are necessary to say that it can be done without being evil. Besides, mythology and folklore from every religion, real-world or imaginary, contains instances of good triumphing over evil--often by dealing directly with it. (I won't cite specific examples in real-world mythology, as a lot of it deals heavily in religion.)

It's easy to argue that one can cheat the devils' pact in order to create good. First, you could do it by binding Naberius, and giving the devils "false life"--essence that isn't essentially worth anything. Or, you could do it by using the power the devils have given you to eradicate evil and convert people to good, reducing the amount of evil that enters into the realm of the Nine Hells. This is an act of internal sacrifice for external good; you give of your own essence so that others don't give of theirs.

All of this is entirely within the realm of the intended fluff of the class--nothing says you have to give the devils your essence as an act of evil, or in order to commit acts of evil, which is probably why any Warlock (even the CG ones) can enter into the class. It may be considered unsavory to the high-and-mighty LG Cleric and NG Druid, to openly bargain with evil in order to cheat it--but to the CG Warlock, their refusal to gain an understanding of how evil works, and to fight evil on evil's terms, may be considered ignorance, anyway.

[Tokuhara]

Read it. Loved it. IDK if I will play a 'lock.

I am more or less looking for a fun blaster/controller/caster-in-general that won't make the healbots seem unimportant and still let the beatsticks shine.

[Kane0]

Can you use homebrew?

If so, there are plenty of good Warlock 'brews out there to choose from.

Shameless plug: You can find a bunch in my sig

[Tokuhara]

Can you use homebrew?

If so, there are plenty of good Warlock 'brews out there to choose from.

Shameless plug: You can find a bunch in my sig

Sorry. No.

[Snowbluff]

So does the Malconvoker (which is actually explicitly non-Evil). It's bound to the fluff. That is sometimes the case. This is not a case where it will be viewed as such by the poster's party.


It's easy to argue that one can cheat the devils' pact in order to create good. First, you could do it by binding Naberius, The demon's get what they want. They don't care. Evil is achieved, and they cackle joyfully while Naberius patches you up.

How much good can 6d6 damage do in the long run? Even if you could blow a good amount of stuff up with that, it's only 21 damage. Sure, 1 con isn't much, but 21 damage isn't a significant figure either. Fighting Evil with Evil still means you are doing Evil, which will upset the Exalted, who are aware of way to handle Evil without lowering themselves to that level.

[Tokuhara]

At one point, I had also considered:

A Warmage/Sandshaper/Prestige Bard/Lyric Thamaturge
A Killoren Anagakok/Sentinel of Bharrai/Wild Soul
A Kalashtar Telepath/Thrallherd

[barna10]

Can you use homebrew?

If so, there are plenty of good Warlock 'brews out there to choose from.

Shameless plug: You can find a bunch in my sig

Thanks a ton. I think I'll go with MammonAzrael's fix.

[Lonely Tylenol]

At one point, I had also considered:

A Warmage/Sandshaper/Prestige Bard/Lyric Thamaturge
A Killoren Anagakok/Sentinel of Bharrai/Wild Soul
A Kalashtar Telepath/Thrallherd

I have to ask.

What is an Anagakok?

Telepath/Thrallherd is fun. If you go that route, be sure not to skip on the Mindbender dip (using the Psionic adaptation of Mindbender, of course).

[Tokuhara]

OK.

Anagakok is a Dragon Magazine alternate wizard that gives up Illusion and Necromancy and their familiar for some druid spells, spontaneous Endure Elements, a luck bonus pool usable x/day, and illiteracy

and the reason no is to avoid having to explain Kalashtar in Faerun