A playable Succubus

[XiaLin]

Back in 3.x, Succubus could be used a playable characters.

Does anyone have any advice on how to create the equivalent of one in 4e?

Looking for the high diplomacy, intimidate and bluff with a whole lot of dominate flavor.

Some polymorph would also be good so the charm/seduction effects can be tailored to the race and gender of the target...

Thoughts?

[Surrealistik]

A base racial profile would be easy enough to do, just tweak the Changeling a bit.

The Succubus' more potent capabilities could only be implemented with racial feats, most of them Paragon/Epic tier.

[neonchameleon]

Back in 3.x, Succubus could be used a playable characters.

Does anyone have any advice on how to create the equivalent of one in 4e?

Looking for the high diplomacy, intimidate and bluff with a whole lot of dominate flavor.

Some polymorph would also be good so the charm/seduction effects can be tailored to the race and gender of the target...

Thoughts?

Start with either the Bard or the Vampire class and go from there? A vampire with only very minor modification would make a good succubus.

[Surrealistik]

Note that all future updates to the race will be taking place here: http://www.myth-weavers.com/showthread.php?p=6629340#post6629340

This is to eliminate the headache and time sink of having to update the same entry in multiple places; the below is probably completely out of date.

Succubus
Seductress fiends from the Nine Hells, they live to corrupt mortals into damnation, while often acting as spies and saboteurs for their infernal masters.
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Average Height: 5' 0"-6' 0"
Average Weight: 95-180 lb.
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Ability Scores: +2 Charisma; +2 Intelligence or +2 Wisdom
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Darkvision
- - - - - - - - - -
Languages: Common, Supernal
Skill Bonuses: +2 Diplomacy, +2 Bluff
Immortal (Devil): You are a devil of the Nine Hells, an immortal fiend. You have the Devil keyword and are considered to have the immortal origin for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin. As such, you are subject to effects and conditions that affect devils and immortals.
Fire Resistance: You have fire resistance equal to 5 + half your character level.
Succubus' Guise: You gain the Succubus' Guise racial power.
Charming Kiss: You gain the Charming Kiss racial power.

Succubus' Guise - Succubus Racial Power
Your flesh wavers and shifts to take on an appearance of your choosing.
At-Will * Polymorph
Minor Action - Personal
Effect: You alter your physical form to take on the appearance of any Small or Medium humanoid creature. The appearance of your clothing, armour and possessions do not change. This new appearance lasts until you end this effect as a free action, or you use this power again.
Any creature that attempts to see through your disguise makes an Insight check opposed by your Bluff skill +5. You may take 10 on this opposed check.

Charming Kiss - Succubus Racial Power
Your charming kiss dissuades an enemy from harming you.
Encounter * Charm
Minor Action - Melee 1
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma +3 vs Will
Level 11: Charisma +6 vs Will
Level 21: Charisma +9 vs Will
Hit: The target is subject to the following effects (save ends all):

It cannot attack you.
It considers you an ally for the purposes of powers, effects and other game mechanics beneficial to you.
You have a +5 bonus to Diplomacy and Bluff checks against the target.

This effect ends if you or one of your allies resolves an attack against the target, you drop to 0 hit points or fewer, or you use this power again.


Racial Feats (Succubus race is a prerequisite in all cases):

Heroic:

Suggestive Kiss
Prerequisite: Charming Kiss racial power
Benefit: You may use your Charming Kiss power as a Standard Action. If you do, its hit effect gains the following clause: "You can slide the target its speed and force it to make an at-will attack of your choice against a target of your choice."

Staggering Kiss
Prerequisite: Charming Kiss racial power
Benefit: You may use your Charming Kiss power as a Standard Action. If you do, you may add the dazed condition to its save ends effects.

Wings of the Temptress
Prerequisite: Immortal origin and devil keyword
Benefit: You gain a fly speed of 6 with altitude limit 1.

Pleasure From Pain
Benefit: The first time each turn you kill or bloody a creature, or a creature adjacent to you is killed or bloodied, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Charisma modifier.
Level 11: 5 + your Charisma modifier.
Level 21: 10 + your Charisma modifier.

Harsh Discipline of Baator
Benefit: Once at the start of your turn, you can take psychic damage equal to half your healing surge value that can't be reduced. If you do, you can making a saving throw to end an enemy effect with a conditional duration, even if that effect wouldn't normally end on a save.

Beguiling Guise
Prerequisite: Succubus' Guise racial power
Benefit: While you are adjacent to a creature whose appearance you are duplicating with Succubus' Guise you gain combat advantage against that creature.

Infernal Charm
Benefit: You gain a +1 racial bonus to attack and damage rolls with your Charm attacks. Enemies take a -2 penalty to their first saving throw against your Charm effects.

Devil's Tongue
Prerequisite:
Benefit: You gain the Devil's Tongue power:

Devil's Tongue - Succubus Racial Power
Your lies are undeniable like self-evident truths, your overtures of friendship that of a long-time companion.
Encounter * Charm
Free Action - Personal
Trigger: You make a Charm attack roll or Streetwise, Diplomacy or Bluff check and dislike the result.
Effect: You reroll the attack roll or check and take the result of your choice.


Perfect Guise
Prerequisite: Succubus' Guise racial power
Benefit: You can take 20 instead of 10 on opposed checks made against your Succubus' Guise disguise.

Love's Betrayal
Prerequisite: Charming Kiss racial power
Benefit: While the target of your Charming Kiss is subject to its effects, you have combat advantage against it. If your Charming Kiss effect ends because you attacked its target, it takes psychic damage equal to your Charisma modifier. At level 11 this damage increases to 5 + your Charisma modifier. At level 21 this damage increases to 10 + your Charisma modifier.

Infernal Telepathy
Benefit: You gain telepathy 5, and telepathy 100 when communicating with your Charming Kiss target.

Opportunistic Kiss
Prerequisite: Charming Kiss racial power
Benefit: You may use your Charming Kiss power in place of an melee basic attack when making an opportunity attack.

Irresistible Allure
Prerequisite: Charming Kiss racial power
Benefit: You may use your Charming Kiss power as a Standard Action. If you do so, you may subject its target to the following effect: Until your Charming Kiss effects end, the target can only willingly move to squares closer or adjacent to you.

Souldraining Kiss
Prerequisite: Charming Kiss racial power
Benefit: You may use your Charming Kiss power as a Standard Action. If you do so while attacking a living creature, your Charming Kiss gains the Healing, Necrotic and Psychic keywords for that attack, and its hit effect gains the following clause: "The target takes necrotic and psychic damage equal to your healing surge value plus your Charisma modifier and you can spend a healing surge, regaining additional hit points equal to your Charisma modifier."

Sorrowful Consort
Prerequisite: Charming Kiss racial power
Benefit: Your Charming Kiss effects don't end when you drop to 0 or fewer hit points. As long as you are dying and unconscious, your Charming Kiss target automatically fails saving throws against its effects.

Blown Kiss
Prerequisite: Charming Kiss racial power
Benefit: You can use your Charming Kiss as a Ranged 5 attack in addition to a Melee 1.


Paragon:

Tainted Love
Prerequisite: Charming Kiss racial power
Benefit: Whenever your Charming Kiss effect would end because you or an ally attacked its target, that target instead makes a saving throw to end the effect, even if the effect wouldn't normally end on a save.

Enduring Love
Prerequisite: Charming Kiss racial power
Benefit: Whenever your Charming Kiss target succeeds on a saving throw against its effects, that target rerolls the saving throw and takes the lower result.

Enervating Kiss
Prerequisite: Charming Kiss racial power
Benefit: You may use your Charming Kiss power as a Standard Action. If you do, you may add the weakened and slowed conditions to its save ends effects.

Infernal Stride
Benefit: You gain teleport 1 as a move speed.
Special: You can take this feat any number of times. Each time you take this feat, increase your teleport speed granted by this feat by +2.

Devoted Consort
Prerequisite: Charming Kiss racial power
Benefit: You gain the Devoted Consort power:

Devoted Consort - Succubus Racial Power
You beseech your charmed accomplice for help, exploiting his feelings of love and devotion to take a blow for you.
At-Will * Charm
Immediate Interrupt - Close burst 1
Trigger: You are targeted by an attack.
Target: Your Charming Kiss target within the burst.
Effect: Your target swaps places with you as an free action. If the triggering attack is a ranged or melee attack, the target becomes the target of that attack instead of you.



Epic:

Eternal Seducer
Prerequisite: Charming Kiss racial power
Benefit: Charming Kiss gains the Reliable keyword. Whenever all effects from your Charming Kiss end, it recharges.

Wings of Baator
Prerequisite: Wings of the Temptress feat
Benefit: Your flight speed has no altitude limit.

Glasya's Kiss
Prerequisite: Charming Kiss racial power, Staggering Kiss feat
Benefit: You may use your Charming Kiss power as a Standard Action. If you do, you may add the dominated condition to its save ends effects. On your turn, while you can communicate with the target, you may command the target to take an action by expending an action of the same type.

[Hyena]

Charming Kiss - Succubus Racial Power
Your charming kiss dissuades an enemy from harming you.
Encounter * Charm
Minor Action - Melee 1
Attack: Charisma +3 vs Will
Level 11: Charisma +6 vs Will
Level 21: Charisma +9 vs Will
Hit: The target is subject to the following effects (save ends all):
It cannot attack you.
It considers you an ally for the purposes of powers, effects and other game mechanics beneficial to you.
You gain a +5 bonus to Diplomacy and Bluff checks against the target.
This effect ends if you or one of your allies attacks the target, you drop to 0 hit points or fewer, or you use this power again

Sounds a little overpowered, doesn't it?

[Surrealistik]

Sounds a little overpowered, doesn't it?

Nah. Maybe the target can't attack you, but its allies can, and it is free to give your party members a whooping.

I'd consider say Dragon Fear more powerful and useful than this in balance. Likewise with Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes and Heroic Effort.

[ArcturusV]

Am I forgetting my DnD Cosmology or are (Succubusi? Succubuses? Succubi?) Demons and not Devils? Not that it's a huge thing. It might matter but I can't think of anything in 4th Edition where it'd come up necessarily other than RP side gristle when encountering other Devils, Demons, etc.

[Surrealistik]

Am I forgetting my DnD Cosmology or are (Succubusi? Succubuses? Succubi?) Demons and not Devils? Not that it's a huge thing. It might matter but I can't think of anything in 4th Edition where it'd come up necessarily other than RP side gristle when encountering other Devils, Demons, etc.

They're Devils in 4E. Just before Asmodeus had his Samuel L Jackson moment and literally lifted the Abyss above his head, twirled the plane about and drop kicked it into the sun (Elemental Chaos), he picked up their Succubi, because c'mon, Asmodeus is the pimp _king_.

The Erinyes have been murderously jealous ever since.

[XiaLin]

They're Devils in 4E. Just before Asmodeus had his Samuel L Jackson moment and literally lifted the Abyss above his head, twirled the plane about and drop kicked it into the sun (Elemental Chaos), he picked up their Succubi, because c'mon, Asmodeus is the pimp _king_.

The Erinyes have been murderously jealous ever since.

Thanks for all the advice and love the history lesson :)

[neonchameleon]

Am I forgetting my DnD Cosmology or are (Succubusi? Succubuses? Succubi?) Demons and not Devils? Not that it's a huge thing. It might matter but I can't think of anything in 4th Edition where it'd come up necessarily other than RP side gristle when encountering other Devils, Demons, etc.

In 4e demons and devils are different for a clear reason. Devils live within the system and think they should be running the place - they get the corruptors. Demons come from outside the universe and want to maim and destroy. Entirely different motivations and plots, and because there is now a clear distinction between Evil (think they should be in charge and grind down those below them) and Chaotic Evil (just want to watch the world burn), some devils and demons were moved to the other category. Succubi are very clearly corruptors rather than monsters that just want to watch the world burn so they became devils.

[vasharanpaladin]

Succubi are very clearly corruptors rather than monsters that just want to watch the world burn so they became devils.

And yet incubi are demons, which kinda throws that logic on its head. :smallmad:

[Surrealistik]

Entirely different motivations and plots, and because there is now a clear distinction between Evil (think they should be in charge and grind down those below them) and Chaotic Evil (just want to watch the world burn), some devils and demons were moved to the other category. Succubi are very clearly corruptors rather than monsters that just want to watch the world burn so they became devils.

That may be the rationale of the designers, but my explanation is what _actually happened_. :p

[Dimers]

The Succubus' more potent capabilities could only be implemented with racial feats, most of them Paragon/Epic tier.

That's true, but only if you're working within existing structure. I'd instead suggest taking the idea of theme attack powers and low-level race utility powers, and extending that to racial attack powers straight from 1st to 29th. That way you can set exactly when to allow the PC access to domination, and it comes at the expense of being able to do class stuff, and it doesn't change the number of powers the PC can have.

[Surrealistik]

Actually that would be expanding on existing (but only very recent) frameworks. But pedanticism aside, agreed, that is an alternate possibility (for powers anyways), much as I hate being made to choose between class capabilities and racial ones.

[OracleofWuffing]

...Wow. I woulda just rolled up a Tiefling and wrote "Has big boobs" on the character sheet and called it a day. But I'm learning a lot from this, too.

[Surrealistik]

Added some racial feats over here:

http://www.myth-weavers.com/showthread.php?p=6629340#post6629340

[ghost_warlock]

Succubus

RACIAL TRAITS
Average Height: 5' 0"-6' 0"
Average Weight: 95-180 lb.


Ability Scores: +2 Charisma; +2 Intelligence or +2 Wisdom
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares, Fly 6 squares (altitude limit 1)
Vision: Darkvision

Languages: Common, Supernal, choice of one other
Skill Bonuses: +2 Diplomacy, +2 Bluff, +2 to one other skill
Immortal (Devil): You are a devil of the Nine Hells, an immortal fiend. You have the Devil keyword and are considered to have the immortal origin for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin. As such, you are subject to effects and conditions that affect devils and immortals.
Infernal Lineage: You count as a Tiefling for the purposes of feat prerequisites.
Fire Resistance: You have fire resistance equal to 5 + half your character level.
Succubus' Guise: You gain the Succubus' Guise racial power:
Charming Kiss: You gain the Charming Kiss racial power:

Succubus' Guise - Succubus Racial Power
Your flesh wavers and shifts to take on an appearance of your choosing.
At-Will * Polymorph
Minor Action - Personal
Effect: You alter your physical form to take on the appearance of any Small or Medium humanoid creature. The appearance of your clothing, armour and possessions do not change. This new appearance lasts until you dismiss it as a free action, or you use this power again.
Any creature that attempts to see through your disguise makes an Insight check opposed by your Bluff skill +5. You may take 10 on this opposed check.

Charming Kiss - Succubus Racial Power
Your charming kiss dissuades an enemy from harming you.
Encounter * Charm
Minor Action - Melee 1
Attack: Charisma +3 vs Will
Level 11: Charisma +6 vs Will
Level 21: Charisma +9 vs Will
Hit: The target is subject to the following effects (save ends all):

It cannot attack you.
It considers you an ally for the purposes of powers, effects and other game mechanics beneficial to you.
You have a +5 bonus to Diplomacy and Bluff checks against the target.

This effect ends if you or one of your allies attacks the target, you drop to 0 hit points or fewer, or you use this power again.

Now you come up with the racial feats. :p

Honestly, I don't know if I'd ever play an actual tiefling if I had this to choose from instead. It's like you took the best parts of a tiefling and added flight and the charming kiss ability. On top of that, you gave them the option to take a tiefling's racial feats, which are some of the best racials in the game.

For that matter, it's like you took a changeling and gave them fire resistance, the charming kiss, flight, and access to all a tiefling's feats.

It's too much. Way too much.

[Surrealistik]

Honestly, I don't know if I'd ever play an actual tiefling if I had this to choose from instead. It's like you took the best parts of a tiefling and added flight and the charming kiss ability. On top of that, you gave them the option to take a tiefling's racial feats, which are some of the best racials in the game.

For that matter, it's like you took a changeling and gave them fire resistance, the charming kiss, flight, and access to all a tiefling's feats.

It's too much. Way too much.

Yeah, I actually agree with you on the Tiefling racial feats; to be fair, that's a crude kludge for before I got assed to make up a bunch for the Succubus, so I'll be removing that.

But best parts of a Tiefling (feats aside)? I personally don't see Blood Hunt, or Infernal Wrath which is upgradable into something truly badass with a single Heroic tier feat typically. Nice as fire resistance is, it's still a fairly situational trait.

I hear you on the flight; that should probably be feat enabled, and this may also be true of Darkvision. I think the Pixie, Drow and Deva are a good basis of comparison, as these are higher tier races (unlike the Changeling) with some key similarities. Charming Kiss is honestly not that impressive as encounter racials go out of the box; I personally don't see it. There are _many_ better racials out there. Versus Changeling Trick sure, it's astounding, but that's not saying much at all, haha.

[ArcturusV]

Hmm, all in all, kinda neat. There's a reference in the Epic Tier Feats to "Staggering Kiss" but I couldn't see it in there. I'm guessing it's a Heroic Tier feat that has something like "use as a Standard Action, your attack inflicts Dazed" as well?

Guess it just needs a Racial Paragon Path now. All in all, I like it. I could see myself throwing it into a game. Might throw it into the game I'm running now as the Infernal and Divine are major movers and shakers. Maybe give some of my party a little more diversification as they make/remake characters. First batch I had nothing but Half-elves and a Tiefling (And a guy who snuck in a drow despite me saying that there were no drow, just normal elves with dark skin). Second was a bunch of Humans and one Deva.

[Surrealistik]

Oh, I think Staggering Kiss was pasted over unfortunately; fixed.

As for a racial Paragon Path, yeah, I'll come up with one soon.

[XiaLin]

Oh, I think Staggering Kiss was pasted over unfortunately; fixed.

As for a racial Paragon Path, yeah, I'll come up with one soon.

Wow. I'm always amazed by the level of expertise and response to a query here.

I first came up with the idea of playing a succubus last year when my main character died a horrific death in an encounter.
Looking at races, I decided to play Tiefling as I never had and it seemed interesting.
Throw in a OT discussion with someone over a comic book from the late 90s, Purgatori, and I saw the possibility of playing a Succubus.

In 3.5, this was one of the options and they laid out all the abilities, characteristics and powers nicely.

In 4e, it seemed that flavoring a Tiefling Sorceress, adding a changeling like polymorph along with an Amulet of Seduction for the Charming Kiss-like domination and picking other items and powers with dominate and charm was as far as I could go.

You have all shown how limited my thinking was and I am truly grateful.

Any thought on having the Aura effect, Infernal Luck, or the enduring domination effect from Charming Touch, that Askavan, Dungeon Magazine 205, has?

[Surrealistik]

Wow. I'm always amazed by the level of expertise and response to a query here.

I first came up with the idea of playing a succubus last year when my main character died a horrific death in an encounter.
Looking at races, I decided to play Tiefling as I never had and it seemed interesting.
Throw in a OT discussion with someone over a comic book from the late 90s, Purgatori, and I saw the possibility of playing a Succubus.

In 3.5, this was one of the options and they laid out all the abilities, characteristics and powers nicely.

In 4e, it seemed that flavoring a Tiefling Sorceress, adding a changeling like polymorph along with an Amulet of Seduction for the Charming Kiss-like domination and picking other items and powers with dominate and charm was as far as I could go.

You have all shown how limited my thinking was and I am truly grateful.

Any thought on having the Aura effect, Infernal Luck, or the enduring domination effect from Charming Touch, that Askavan, Dungeon Magazine 205, has?

Thank you for the kind words; I'm glad I could help out.

Unfortunately I don't have access to Dungeon Magazine to comment, but I certainly would be interested in integrating those abilities with the race upon gaining access to the related material.


EDIT: Got the article. Charming Touch essentially a recent incarnation of Charming Kiss. I could add a feat that gives it the same longevity (I was toying with the idea earlier, but hadn't yet made the feat). This strikes me as being an Epic feat, Paragon at earliest.

I did add Infernal Luck as a Paragon feat gained daily racial power.

See the updated entry here: http://www.myth-weavers.com/showthread.php?p=6629340#post6629340

I will be making all further updates to the race solely in Mythweavers so I only have to maintain and update one instance.

[XiaLin]

Thank you for the kind words; I'm glad I could help out.

Unfortunately I don't have access to Dungeon Magazine to comment, but I certainly would be interested in integrating those abilities with the race upon gaining access to the related material.


EDIT: Got the article. Charming Touch essentially a recent incarnation of Charming Kiss. I could add a feat that gives it the same longevity (I was toying with the idea earlier, but hadn't yet made the feat). This strikes me as being an Epic feat, Paragon at earliest.

I did add Infernal Luck as a Paragon feat gained daily racial power.

See the updated entry here: http://www.myth-weavers.com/showthread.php?p=6629340#post6629340

I will be making all further updates to the race solely in Mythweavers so I only have to maintain and update one instance.

Cool. Thanks for the update.

Another suggestion, which might be worked into a Paragon Path or some other way, is the idea of creating thralls.
Currently Charming Kiss only targets one creature and even with the potential semi-permanent/permanent extension (Charming Touch), still it doesn't seem to allow multiple creatures in Thrall.
There should be a means to target in a burst multiple creatures and those that fail their saves could be extended as permanent thralls to do the Succubus bidding and be means of feeding.
I'm thinking that over time, as their life-essence dwindles, they become minions...

Thoughts?

[Surrealistik]

Multiple thralls are definitely beyond the purview of any published material I've seen about the Succubus through their innate racial powers. That is the sort of thing which would have to be accomplished through infernal pacts and the like.

I did however, author this paragon feat:

Enduring Corruption
Prerequisite: Charming Kiss racial power
Benefit: If your Charming Kiss target is affected by your Charming Kiss at the end of an encounter, the effect lasts for 24 hours from the time you last kissed the target (it still ends if you drop to 0 hit points or fewer, if you or one of your allies attacks the target, you dismiss it as a free action, or you use Charming Kiss on another target).
Once per encounter, you can attempt to force your Charming Kiss target to surrender with a Standard Action as per Intimidate, using Diplomacy in place of Intimidate for this opposed check. Creatures that were unfriendly or hostile before being subject to your Charming Kiss count as being unfriendly or hostile for this check. Elites get a +5 bonus to their Will defense for this check. Solos get a +20 bonus to their Will defense for this check.

[XiaLin]

Multiple thralls are definitely beyond the purview of any published material I've seen about the Succubus through their innate racial powers. That is the sort of thing which would have to be accomplished through infernal pacts and the like.

I did however, author this paragon feat:

Enduring Corruption
Prerequisite: Charming Kiss racial power
Benefit: If your Charming Kiss target is affected by your Charming Kiss at the end of an encounter, the effect lasts for 24 hours from the time you last kissed the target (it still ends if you drop to 0 hit points or fewer, if you or one of your allies attacks the target, you dismiss it as a free action, or you use Charming Kiss on another target).
Once per encounter, you can attempt to force your Charming Kiss target to surrender with a Standard Action as per Intimidate, using Diplomacy in place of Intimidate for this opposed check. Creatures that were unfriendly or hostile before being subject to your Charming Kiss count as being unfriendly or hostile for this check. Elites get a +5 bonus to their Will defense for this check. Solos get a +20 bonus to their Will defense for this check.

Hmm, are you aware of any powers that would give the Thrall type aspect or is that something that would need to be flavored as well?

Following up on your reference to infernal-pacts, do you consider Succubi to be a better fit for Warlocks and Sorcerers or some of the classic Assassins/Thiefs/Spies?

[Surrealistik]

Hmm, are you aware of any powers that would give the Thrall type aspect or is that something that would need to be flavored as well?

Following up on your reference to infernal-pacts, do you consider Succubi to be a better fit for Warlocks and Sorcerers or some of the classic Assassins/Thiefs/Spies?

I think they fit both extremely well to be honest, though probably the former slightly more than the latter.

Enduring Corruption fits the 'thrall' bit well enough in spite of its limitations, especially when used with Glasya's Kiss.


As for multiple thralls, the only thing I can think of is a custom 'Infernal Pact' ritual which can only be used out of combat, and probably comes at the cost of healing surges while the pact is outstanding and the deal has yet to terminate/close; the loss of healing surges represents your investiture of power. Once the terms of the pact conclude, you gain control over the counterparty at-will; essentially you can apply/remove the dominated condition with an unlimited duration as a free action at-will.

Naturally if you enslave multiple thralls and bring them with you into combat, this can break the game in all kinds of ways, so it's something that would have to be heavily moderated by your DM.

[XiaLin]

I think they fit both extremely well to be honest, though probably the former slightly more than the latter.

Enduring Corruption fits the 'thrall' bit well enough in spite of its limitations, especially when used with Glasya's Kiss.


As for multiple thralls, the only thing I can think of is a custom 'Infernal Pact' ritual which can only be used out of combat, and probably comes at the cost of healing surges while the pact is outstanding and the deal has yet to terminate/close; the loss of healing surges represents your investiture of power. Once the terms of the pact conclude, you gain control over the counterparty at-will; essentially you can apply/remove the dominated condition with an unlimited duration as a free action at-will.

Naturally if you enslave multiple thralls and bring them with you into combat, this can break the game in all kinds of ways, so it's something that would have to be heavily moderated by your DM.


I like the idea of a ritual to handle the kiss recipient becoming a thrall.

What about a pact?
A character would make a pact with the Succubus and once the deal was consummated, the character would become a thrall of the Succubus, doing her bidding and serving as a source of health.

Also any thought on languages? In 3.5, Succubi had the Tongues spell like ability to understand any spoken language. This allowed it to communicate with those it was trying to seduce and dominate. Also by default I would assume they would speak Abyssal as well as Supernal.

Under 3.5, Succubi had resistance to Acid, Cold and Fire and a natural immunity to poison and Electricity (guessing lightning in 4x) and could summon a vicious demon (vrock) protector as a daily. This vrock could summon it's own smaller demons, dretches to act as disposable foot soldiers. Succubi also had some other spell-like abilities that were mostly dailies or multiple times per daily depending on level.

Thoughts?

Lastly as part of shape-shifting, a Succubus can become male as well as female. In the older versions of D&D, that's how they described male Succubi, Incubi. They also mention that the grand-children, by humans, of Succubi/Incubi are Tieflings.

[Surrealistik]

Immortals that speak Supernal can effectively speak and understand all languages. I think I'm going to nerf this though by requiring a feat investment.

[XiaLin]

Immortals that speak Supernal can effectively speak and understand all languages. I think I'm going to nerf this though by requiring a feat investment though.

Hmm, my mistake. Forgot that Supernal is the underlying basis for the others.
So agree with your original position that we don't need a spell or feat to accomplish this :)

Any thoughts on the other attributes?

[Surrealistik]

I could maybe see giving the Succubus racial feats that allow her to summon a couple of Hellguard Legionnaire minions (devil footsoldiers), as well as some resistance feats.

[Surrealistik]

and could summon a vicious demon (vrock) protector as a daily. This vrock could summon it's own smaller demons, dretches to act as disposable foot soldiers.

Here's a Paragon feat that roughly does what you're looking for:

Call of the Legion
Benefit: You gain the Call of the Legion racial power:

Call of the Legion - Succubus Racial Power
Having proven yourself in the eyes of your dark masters, you have been granted authority over a small squad of Hellguard Legionnaires; for a price.
Daily * Fire, Necrotic, Summoning
Minor Action - Close burst 5
Requirement: You must lose a healing surge to use this power. If you have no healing surges remaining, you take necrotic damage equal to your healing surge value that can't be reduced.
Effect: Four Hellguard Legionnaires appear in unoccupied spaces within the burst. Whenever you spend a standard action to command one, the others can also take an action of that type. Whenever you take a move action, each Legionnaire can also take a move action. Each Legionnaire has its own opportunity actions. You don't lose a healing surge until all of the Legionnaires are destroyed.

Hellguard Legionnaire
Medium immortal humanoid (devil); Level is equal to your level.
HP: 1 (a missed attack never damages a minion)
Defenses: AC 16 + your level, Fortitude 13 + your level, Reflex 11 + your level, Will 12 + your level.
Perception: 6 + half your level, Darkvision
Speed: 6, Teleport 3
Resist: 15 fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Traits:
Squad Tactics: While adjacent to an ally, the devil gains a +2 bonus to all defenses, can't be flanked, and grants superior cover instead of cover to allies. While flanking, the devil gains a +2 bonus to attack rolls against the creatures it flanks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Standard Actions:
Melee Basic; Hellforged Longsword (fire, necrotic)* At-Will
Attack: Melee 1 (one creature); Your level + 5 vs. AC
Hit: 4 + half your level damage. Until the end of your next turn, if the target willingly leaves its space, it takes an equal amount of fire and necrotic damage.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Triggered Actions:
Zeal of the Legion * Encounter
Trigger: The devil is destroyed
Effect (No Action): Close burst 2 (one ally in the burst) The target gains a +2 bonus to its attack rolls, saving throws and defenses and deals +5 extra damage with an attack of its choice until the end of the active creature's next turn.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skills & Attributes:
Athletics: 8 + half your level, Endurance: 8 + half your level
Str: 16 (+X) - Dex: 12 (+X) - Wis: 12 (+X)
Con: 16 (+X) - Int: 10 (+X) - Cha: 12 (+X)
Alignment: Evil - Languages: Supernal

[XiaLin]

Here's a Paragon feat that roughly does what you're looking for:

Call of the Legion
Benefit: You gain the Call of the Legion racial power:

Call of the Legion - Succubus Racial Power
Having proven yourself in the eyes of your dark masters, you have been granted authority over a small squad of Hellguard Legionnaires; for a price.
Daily * Fire, Necrotic, Summoning
Minor Action - Close burst 5
Requirement: You must lose a healing surge to use this power. If you have no healing surges remaining, you take necrotic damage equal to your healing surge value that can't be reduced.
Effect: Four Hellguard Legionnaires appear in unoccupied spaces within the burst. Whenever you spend a standard action to command one, the others can take an action of that type. Whenever you take a move action, each Legionnaire can also take a move action. Each Legionnaire has its own opportunity actions. You don't lose a healing surge until all of the Legionnaires are destroyed.

Hellguard Legionnaire
Medium immortal humanoid (devil); Their level is equal to your level.
HP: 1 (a missed attack never damages a minion)
Defenses: AC 16 + your level, Fortitude 13 + your level, Reflex 11 + your level, Will 12 + your level.
Perception: 6 + half your level, Darkvision
Speed: 6, Teleport 3
Resist: 15 fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Traits:
Squad Tactics: While adjacent to an ally, the devil gains a +2 bonus to all defenses, can't be flanked, and grants superior cover instead of cover to allies. While flanking, the devil gains a +2 bonus to attack rolls against the creatures it flanks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Standard Actions:
Melee Basic; Hellforged Longsword (fire, necrotic)* At-Will
Attack: Melee 1 (one creature); Your level + 5 vs. AC
Hit: 4 + half your level damage. Until the end of your next turn, if the target willingly leaves its space, it takes an equal amount of fire and necrotic damage.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Triggered Actions:
Zeal of the Legion * Encounter
Trigger: The devil is destroyed
Effect (No Action): Close burst 2 (one ally in the burst) The target gains a +2 bonus to its attack rolls, saving throws and defenses and deals +2 extra damage until the end of the next round.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skills & Attributes:
Athletics: 8 + half your level, Endurance: 8 + half your level
Str: 16 (+X) - Dex: 12 (+X) - Wis: 12 (+X)
Con: 16 (+X) - Int: 10 (+X) - Cha: 12 (+X)
Alignment: Evil - Languages: Supernal



Very, very cool. I'm really loving this and can't wait to play her.

If you get a chance,please update her further with a Paragon path, etc.
I'll be checking out your link either way as you have some other nice races.
Thanks for all your help.

Xia

[Unseenmal]

If you get a chance,please update her further with a Paragon path, etc.
I'll be checking out your link either way as you have some other nice races.
Thanks for all your help.


I second this. I'd like to use a Succubus in my next 4e game...probably as an NPC to start with but she may become a PC depending on if anyone would want to try it out.

[Surrealistik]

Working on it!

[Surrealistik]

...and the first draft is done:

http://www.myth-weavers.com/showthread.php?p=6678444#post6678444

[Surrealistik]

Will probably get around to making a racial Epic Destiny sometime.

Right now I'm looking for PEACH on both the race and the PP.

[XiaLin]

Will probably get around to making a racial Epic Destiny sometime.

Right now I'm looking for PEACH on both the race and the PP.

Don't know how PEACHy I'm being, but I really like the PP.
It fits very nicely with the whole theme and extends the racial aspects in a common sense way.

I am putting together a character based upon this and will start playing it in a campaign next week.
I'll let you know how it goes but I expect it to be a lot of fun.