Illithid - Non-Psionic - 3.5

[gurgleflep]

Okay, I have an idea for a character involving a mind flayer who's unable to use any of its psionic abilities but his mental speaking thing. It would keep all its stat bonuses (I've been talking things through with the DM), but lose all psion and magic capabilities. My question basically is this: would an illithid make a good barbarian or fighter without all that mumbo-jumbo?

[Urpriest]

Depends. What LA is the DM giving it?

[gurgleflep]

He's trying to bring the LA down as far as he can, thinking it will probably be around a two or three. Some of the ability bonuses may have to be decreased and he's losing a lot of abilities. Basically he was born/created without the ability to use his regular racial stuff.

[Aegis013]

Is LA buy-off being allowed?

[gurgleflep]

What's a buy off?

[Urpriest]

He's trying to bring the LA down as far as he can, thinking it will probably be around a two or three. Some of the ability bonuses may have to be decreased and he's losing a lot of abilities. Basically he was born/created without the ability to use his regular racial stuff.

Ok, so essentially here's what you've got:

8 Aberration Hit Dice (d8, 3/4 BAB, good Will, bad skills), Telepathy (cool if you can take the Mindsight feat from Lords of Madness, beyond that ok for party coordination), four tentacles with Improved Grab, and a mediocre ability to kill things after you've been grappling them for a few turns. You have +3 natural armor, Str +2, Dex +4, Con +2, and lots of Int Wis and Cha that might be decreased. Honestly, with that many racial hit dice that's barely worth LA +1. You'd need to make a pretty dedicated grappling build in order to get much mileage out of this, and the racial hit dice are going to really really slow you down. What's your starting level?

Edit:

What's a buy off?
Level Adjustment Buyoff is an alternate rule from Unearthed Arcana that lets you spend XP to reduce your level adjustment once you're higher level. You can read about it and various other monster-related things in my monster handbook, link in sig.

[gurgleflep]

We're all going to be starting off as level fives. We'll be meeting up sometime tomorrow or the day after to officially roll-out our characters.

[Urpriest]

We're all going to be starting off as level fives. We'll be meeting up sometime tomorrow or the day after to officially roll-out our characters.

Then you can't play this character, since Mind Flayers have eight racial hit dice, unless your DM is reducing that (which I'm assuming you would have mentioned).

[gurgleflep]

I honestly don't know if he's reducing the racial hit dice. This is the first time for him ever doing such a thing.

Edit: I really need to get in touch with the DM, we need to talk this thing through.

[Urpriest]

I honestly don't know if he's reducing the racial hit dice. This is the first time for him ever doing such a thing.

If you guys are unfamiliar with how monsters work then I would reiterate the suggestion that you and your DM read my monster handbook before you start trying to play or modify monsters. They're quite a bit more complicated than they seem.

[gurgleflep]

I'll head over to his place sometime today to read your book with him. And thank you for having made such a fantastic device, it's going to be quite helpful!

[Answerer]

Generally speaking, you're going to have 3/4 BAB, no real special/magical abilities, no damage bonuses, no bonus feats, and very few skills. That doesn't really leave you with much at all. The loss of BAB is going to make it difficult to be a good Grappler, since that depends so much on BAB, and your only real special feature depends on that. It's also going to make it hard to qualify for the best Fighter or Barbarian feats and/or PrCs, and you won't be much good at Power Attacking either.

Without a severe reduction in RHD and quite likely an elimination of LA, I don't really see this as playable. It doesn't really lend itself to any particular build very well.

[Starbuck_II]

Just be a Mindflayer have 4 negative levels:
Then you (Effectively) have 4 HD and 1 LA.

His backstory would include wight attacks and whatever deactivated most of his psionics.

[Fouredged Sword]

If you want to go for negative level cheese then why not be dropped back to 1 RDH and 1 LA or 2 LA, and then go class levels (the first RHD is replaced with class levels if you have only one RHD) for useful HD.

At that point you have good ability scores and lots of natural attack possibilities. Grab a greatsword and go barbarian. Get whirling frenzy and pounce.

[Khatoblepas]

Illithids are in the unique position wherein they can get a lot of reach very easily.

Natural Reach 5ft
Deformity (Tall) +5ft (devote yourself to an elder evil)
Tentacle Extensions +5ft (allows you to eat brains at a distance!)
Extend Tentacles (spell) +5ft (very low level)
Illithid Body Tamer 6 +5ft (also comes with boons for not using your psychic abilities)
=
25ft reach as a medium creature.

Rapidstrike can also give you more attacks, and Soul Eater can give you negative levels you can dole out. I'm sure there's a way to get even MORE natural attacks, but I can't think of any atm. (Deformity - Hands, maybe?)

I wouldn't recommend it unless you can get rid of most of the RHD and LA, but it's there.

[Fouredged Sword]

A illithid totemist would be nasty. ClawX4, slamx2, tenticals... Deformity tall will give you reach with all your natural weapons. Then go soul eater for tons of negative levels.

[Malimar]

Illithids are in the unique position wherein they can get a lot of reach very easily.

Natural Reach 5ft
Deformity (Tall) +5ft (devote yourself to an elder evil)
Tentacle Extensions +5ft (allows you to eat brains at a distance!)
Extend Tentacles (spell) +5ft (very low level)
Illithid Body Tamer 6 +5ft (also comes with boons for not using your psychic abilities)
=
25ft reach as a medium creature.

Also Extended Reach from Savage Species for another +5.

[Khatoblepas]

Also Extended Reach from Savage Species for another +5.

How could I have missed such an excellent feat? (seriously, Extend Tentacles is in the same book)

[Answerer]

There's also Inhuman Reach from ... Lords of Madness I want to say? But it may be Humanoid-only since it's supposed to be an aberration-tainted humanoid thing.

[Aegis013]

...Soul Eater...


...soul eater...

Keep in mind that the negative level ability from Soul Eater, by RAW, defaults to a standard action touch attack, as it doesn't specify otherwise. You'd need to make sure your DM would allow it to work on all natural weapon attacks.

[gurgleflep]

Hot-diggity-dang! That's a lot of reach. You're all quite helpful, so thank you all!
With the deformity (tall), would I be classified as a large? I know illithids are pretty lanky even without such things on them.