The Puppet Master (3.5 monster, PEACH)

[Frathe]

Puppet Master

{table=head]
Size/Type: |
Medium Outsider (Evil, Extraplanar)


Hit Dice: | 5d8+5 (27 hp)


Initiative: | +7


Speed: | 30 ft. (6 squares)


Armor Class: | 19 (+4 Dex, +5 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 15


Base Attack/Grapple: | +5/+5


Attack: | String +9 melee (1d6)


Full Attack: | 2 strings +9 melee (1d6)


Space/Reach: | 5 ft./5 ft. (30 ft. with strings)


Special Attacks: | Strings


Special Qualities: | Body of darkness, darkvision 60 ft., shadow figments


Saves: | Fort +5, Ref +8, Will +4


Abilities: | Str 10, Dex 19, Con 13, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 18


Skills: | Hide +16, Listen +14, Move Silently +16, Perform (comedy) +12*, Spot +14


Feats: | Alertness, Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse


Environment: | Any evil-aligned plane


Organization: | Solitary, troupe (2-4)


Challenge Rating: | 4


Treasure: | Standard


Alignment: | Always chaotic evil


Advancement: | 5-11 HD (Medium)


Level Adjustment: | — [/table]

Puppet masters are gaunt, shadowy, vaguely humanoid figures who use the silvery enchanted strings that emerge from their fingers to take control of others’ bodies. They are about eight feet tall and weigh about 80 pounds.

Puppet masters speak Abyssal and Common.

Combat
Puppet masters will start a battle by throwing their strings, trying to dominate the most powerful creatures they can; then, if successful, they will make those creatures attack their allies.

A puppet master’s natural weapons, as well as any weapons it wields, are treated as evil-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Strings (Su)
To use this ability, a puppet master must hit a humanoid opponent with its string attack. If the opponent fails a DC 16 Will save, the puppet master gains control of the opponent as a dominate person spell, but with a new save allowed every round, with the same DC as the first; no common language requirement for complex commands; and an exclusion of all other activities, even those needed for survival. In addition to this effect, the controlled opponent temporarily gains the puppet master’s Dexterity, and cannot move more than 30 ft. from the puppet master. The save DC is Charisma-based.

A puppet master can control up to two opponents at a time in this manner; however, they cannot attack normally with the strings thus occupied. Any opponent that has succeeded on its Will save to negate the effect may make a DC 15 Strength check or a DC 20 Escape Artist check to escape the strings. If the opponent fails to escape, the puppet master may try to dominate it again on the puppet master’s next turn without making another attack.

Body of Darkness (Su)
A puppet master's very essence is made of shadows, bleeding darkness in all directions. A puppet master manifests a constant darkness effect, centered on itself. Within this area of darkness, the puppet master has total concealment (50% miss chance), due to its shadowy form. The puppet master can activate or dismiss this effect as a free action.

Shadow Figments (Su)
As a swift action, a puppet master can summon 1d4+1 figments, with AC 10 and 5 Hit Points, in any area of shadow or darkness within line of sight. These figments cannot deal damage, but are used as a distraction, allowing the puppet master to ambush its targets. The figments disappear when reduced to 0 health. A puppet master can only sustain a number of figments equal to or less than its Hit Dice. Any figments summoned in excess of this number dissolve back into shadow.

Skills
Puppet masters have a +8 racial bonus on Perform (comedy) checks.

[Frathe]

Could anyone help me figure out this thing's CR? It doesn't have too much offensively except for the ability to potentially turn two party members against the rest of the party (which, if it's a four-member party, turns into 2-on-2).

[LordErebus12]

id say a CR 4 or weak 5

[LordErebus12]

how would you feel about adding an ability? Displacement...

[Frathe]

id say a CR 4 or weak 5
Thanks for your response! I think that sounds pretty reasonable.


how would you feel about adding an ability? Displacement... I'm not sure I understand the logic behind that...

[LordErebus12]

Thanks for your response! I think that sounds pretty reasonable.

I'm not sure I understand the logic behind that...

when i think puppet master, i think evasive and illusions disguising its presence. while i think its a potent monster as is but its gonna be target #1, displacement would add a sense of urgency and fear to an otherwise short but brutal encounter. it would also allow it to survive for a bit longer, which is helpful.

Logic is overrated, madness is underrated. :smallbiggrin:

[Frathe]

What about something more like darkness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkness.htm) (20% miss chance)? Fits with the shadowy nature, although it's not that great percentagewise.

[LordErebus12]

What about something more like darkness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkness.htm) (20% miss chance)? Fits with the shadowy nature, although it's not that great percentagewise.

i wish it was more than that, but yeah.

perhaps an improved version for the advanced puppetmaster?

[Frathe]

Maybe I could have some small-radius "Deeper Darkness" that blinded (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm) characters. I like the idea of magical darkness, but I want a higher miss chance; this gets both.

[LordErebus12]

Body of Darkness (Su):
A puppet master's very essence is made of shadows, bleeding darkness from every pore. A puppet master manifests a constant deeper darkness effect, centered on itself. While within this area of darkness, the puppet master has a 50% concealment, partially due to its shadowy form. The puppet master can activate or dismiss this effect as a free action.

[Frathe]

Body of Darkness (Su):
A puppet master's very essence is made of shadows, bleeding darkness from every pore. A puppet master manifests a constant deeper darkness effect, centered on itself. While within this area of darkness, the puppet master has a 50% concealment, partially due to its shadowy form. The puppet master can activate or dismiss this effect as a free action.

Thanks! Sorry, I wouldn't have said "Deeper Darkness" if I realize there was an actual spell called that. :smallredface: I was just making up names. Actually, I might want to just use darkness (sorry about the misunderstanding), because a 60-ft. radius (12 squares) seems awfully large.

Edit: I've added that, with a few changes.

[LordErebus12]

CR 5 might work now. still feels like a strong CR 4 to me, though.

[LordErebus12]

so... we got its defensive ability and its offensive ability...

how about crowd control?

i purpose an ability to create shadowy figments or illusions within any darkness within a set range (not necessarily its own). purely for intimidation, rather like the Owl butterfly's eye spots on its wings.

it lures a few of the members of the party away from the group, fighting phantoms that they see. then the puppet master sneak up and grabs its first victim.

Edit: swift action, summon 1d4+1 figments (AC 10; hp 5). they cannot deal damage, but it wont stop the illusion from doing its job.

[Frathe]

so... we got its defensive ability and its offensive ability...

how about crowd control?

i purpose an ability to create shadowy figments or illusions within any darkness within a set range (not necessarily its own). purely for intimidation, rather like the Owl butterfly's eye spots on its wings.

it lures a few of the members of the party away from the group, fighting phantoms that they see. then the puppet master sneak up and grabs its first victim.

Edit: swift action, summon 1d4+1 figments (AC 10; hp 5). they cannot deal damage, but it wont stop the illusion from doing its job.

I've changed the CR to 4.

Shadow Figments (Ex)

As a swift action, a puppet master can summon 1d4+1 figments, with AC 10 and 5 Hit Points, in any area of shadow or darkness within line of sight. These figments cannot deal damage, but are used as a distraction, allowing the puppet master to ambush its targets.

How's that look?

[LordErebus12]

How's that look?

Awesome...

Im gonna throw it at my gaming group this saturday to see how it goes. Their level 3 right now, should be a tough challenge.

add in some kind of cap, they can only have up to their HD worth of figments. otherwise im seeing a massive army of shadowy illusions for no reason.

bet it would be frightening, after three rounds of it hiding from the party, suddenly the place explodes with a dozen shadows, moving slowly towards the party.

also, it needs rules dealing with it being a illusion, a saving throw, etc.

[Debihuman]

This is a pretty good way to estimate CR (it's not exact but it's one I use often)

Vorpal Tribble’s CR estimator

#1. Divide creature's average HP by 4.5 to 6.5.
4.5 for 5 HD or lower, 5 for 6-10 HD, 5.5 for 11-15 HD, 6 for 16-20 HD., 6.5 for 20-25 HD.

#2. Add 1 for each five points above 10 its AC is, subtracting 1 for every 5 below.

#3. Add 1 for each special attack (+2 to +5 or more if it has a decent number of spells in its spell-like abilities).

#4. Add 1 for each quality unless you deem it worthy of more. Add 1 for each resistance and 10 points of DR it has, and 2 for each immunity. Subtract 1 for each vulnerability.

#5. Add 1 for every two bonus feats it has.

#6. Divide total by 3. This should be its rough CR.

Debby

[Frathe]

Awesome...

Im gonna throw it at my gaming group this saturday to see how it goes. Their level 3 right now, should be a tough challenge.

add in some kind of cap, they can only have up to their HD worth of figments. otherwise im seeing a massive army of shadowy illusions for no reason.

bet it would be frightening, after three rounds of it hiding from the party, suddenly the place explodes with a dozen shadows, moving slowly towards the party.

also, it needs rules dealing with it being a illusion, a saving throw, etc.

As far as I can tell, the spell mirror image (somewhat relevant) doesn't offer a saving throw. I'm not sure what you mean about an army of figments; they're only getting 1d4+1 of them (maximum 5).

Edit: Oh, wait, they could use it a bunch of times. Didn't think of that. Good call; I'll add the restriction.

Edit: Tell me how that goes!


This is a pretty good way to estimate CR (it's not exact but it's one I use often)

Vorpal Tribble’s CR estimator

#1. Divide creature's average HP by 4.5 to 6.5.
4.5 for 5 HD or lower, 5 for 6-10 HD, 5.5 for 11-15 HD, 6 for 16-20 HD., 6.5 for 20-25 HD.

#2. Add 1 for each five points above 10 its AC is, subtracting 1 for every 5 below.

#3. Add 1 for each special attack (+2 to +5 or more if it has a decent number of spells in its spell-like abilities).

#4. Add 1 for each quality unless you deem it worthy of more. Add 1 for each resistance and 10 points of DR it has, and 2 for each immunity. Subtract 1 for each vulnerability.

#5. Add 1 for every two bonus feats it has.

#6. Divide total by 3. This should be its rough CR.

Debby

Thanks. I got around 3.667 with this method, which somewhat squares with the CR 4 I already have.

[Frathe]

I changed Shadow Figments to be a (Su) supernatural ability. It seems like it'd be magical.

Edit: The cloaker's (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/cloaker.htm) shadow shift ability seems fairly similar to some of the things we're giving this (manipulating shadows to get figments and concealment); it's (Su).

[Frathe]

Hey, Erebus, did you end up using this?

[LordErebus12]

Hey, Erebus, did you end up using this?

A group of three of them, a Coven of Shadows of sorts led a half dozen Shadows (http://dndsrd.net/monstersS.html#shadow)against the party.

Naturally I gave the party a bit of backup in the weapon department, two weapons that allowed a double roll for Concealment. Overall it was a massacre, two of the five PC's died, while one was seriously injured. The only cleric having died, the party nearly crumbled until a quick retreat saved them.

A lucky idea crossed the rogue's mind. The following day he ran to the Church and got the Cleric of Palor (backup character for the old ocean cleric) and then went to the blacksmith (barbarian backup for the other dead guy). With both in hand, they made an ambush site near the lair of the Coven of Shadows. The ambush did better, a dozen sunstones (like solar grenades, really) "borrowed" from the High Cleric of Palor, they set a ring around where they would lure them.

It went off without a hitch when the three of them entered the area, the trap sprung correctly. Blind and wounded, the three were fell upon by enchanted steel and magic. They no longer exist.

The party were all 4th level.

[Frathe]

Cool! Sounds like my monster was put to good use.

[LordErebus12]

the special qualities on your table are not formatted.

[Frathe]

the special qualities on your table are not formatted.

What do you mean?

[LordErebus12]

What do you mean?

the text is the wrong size.

speaking of which, you should shrink the text a bit overall, its kind of too big, imo.

[Frathe]

the text is the wrong size.

speaking of which, you should shrink the text a bit overall, its kind of too big, imo.

Yeah, it's a weird size because it was machine-converted from a word-processor document. Saves work, but you can end up with slightly odd-looking formatting choices. Look better now?

[LordErebus12]

Try this:

Puppet Master

{table=head]
Size/Type: |
Medium Outsider (Evil, Extraplanar)


Hit Dice: | 5d8+5 (27 hp)


Initiative: | +7


Speed: | 30 ft. (6 squares)


Armor Class: | 19 (+4 Dex, +5 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 15


Base Attack / Grapple: | +5/+5


Attack: | String +9 melee (1d6)


Full Attack: | 2 strings +9 melee (1d6)


Space/Reach: | 5 ft./5 ft. (30 ft. with strings)


Special Attacks: | Strings


Special Qualities: | Body of darkness, darkvision 60 ft., shadow figments


Saves: | Fort +5, Ref +8, Will +4


Abilities: | Str 10, Dex 19, Con 13, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 18


Skills: | Hide +16, Listen +14, Move Silently +16, Perform (comedy) +12*, Spot +14


Feats: | Alertness, Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse


Environment: | Any evil-aligned plane


Organization: | Solitary, troupe (2-4)


Challenge Rating: | 4


Treasure: | Standard


Alignment: | Always chaotic evil


Advancement: | 5-11 HD (Medium)


Level Adjustment: | — [/table]


Puppet masters are gaunt, shadowy, vaguely humanoid figures who use the silvery enchanted strings that emerge from their fingers to take control of others’ bodies. They are about eight feet tall and weigh about 80 pounds.

Puppet masters speak Abyssal and Common.

Combat
Puppet masters will start a battle by throwing their strings, trying to dominate the most powerful creatures they can; then, if successful, they will make those creatures attack their allies.

A puppet master’s natural weapons, as well as any weapons it wields, are treated as evil-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Strings (Su)
To use this ability, a puppet master must hit an opponent of any size with its string attack. If the creature fails a DC 16 Will save, the puppet master gains control of them, in an effect comparable to a dominate person spell, but with a new save allowed every round, with the same DC as the first; no common language requirement for complex commands; and an exclusion of all other activities, even those needed for survival. In addition to these effects, the target temporarily gains the puppet master’s Dexterity, and cannot move more than 30 ft. from the puppet master. A puppet master can only control up to two targets at a time in this manner, and they cannot attack normally with the strings thus occupied. A creature who has succeeded on its Will save to negate the effect may make a DC 15 Strength check or a DC 20 Escape Artist check to escape the strings; if the creature fails to escape, the puppet master may try to dominate it again on the puppet master’s next turn without making another attack.

Body of Darkness (Su)
A puppet master's very essence is made of shadows, bleeding darkness in all directions. A puppet master manifests a constant darkness effect, centered on itself. Within this area of darkness, the puppet master has total concealment (50% miss chance), due to its shadowy form. The puppet master can activate or dismiss this effect as a free action.

Shadow Figments (Su)
As a swift action, a puppet master can summon 1d4+1 figments, with AC 10 and 5 Hit Points, in any area of shadow or darkness within line of sight. These figments cannot deal damage, but are used as a distraction, allowing the puppet master to ambush its targets. The figments disappear when reduced to 0 health. A puppet master can only sustain a number of figments equal to or less than its Hit Dice. Any figments summoned in excess of this number dissolve back into shadow.

Skills
Puppet masters have a +8 racial bonus on Perform (comedy) checks.

[LordErebus12]

The basic text really doesnt need to be sized.

[Frathe]

The basic text really doesnt need to be sized.

As I said, that's the program. I don't do that normally. Your stat block looks kind of small to me, though. I'm afraid that'd be hard to read.

Edit: Seriously though, the one you're offering is smaller than any creature formatting I've ever seen on these forums. Also I'm not sure: do you want me to change the size of things, or is it just the redundant "[size=2]" tags that bother you?

[LordErebus12]

As I said, that's the program. I don't do that normally. Your stat block looks kind of small to me, though. I'm afraid that'd be hard to read.

Edit: Seriously though, the one you're offering is smaller than any creature formatting I've ever seen on these forums. Also I'm not sure: do you want me to change the size of things, or is it just the redundant "[size=2]" tags that bother you?

no, i simply do not need all the text to be so large, and find it extremely redundant when i can simply zoom in on the page to make it bigger. so i find it a extremely minor nuance if all of the stat block is too large to neatly fit on each line.

Its just a suggestion, its a pet peeve of mine. Sorry about it.:smallsigh:

[Debihuman]

Strings should be reworded so that it matches the dominate person spell, which means it ONLY works on Humanoids. Even though Supernatural abilities are always charisma-based, it should still be mentioned. I also fixed some grammatical issues.


Strings (Su): To use this ability, a puppet master must hit a Humanoid opponent with its string attack. If the opponent fails a DC 16 Will save, the puppet master gains control of the opponent as a dominate person spell, but with a new save allowed every round, with the same DC as the first; no common language requirement for complex commands; and an exclusion of all other activities, even those needed for survival. In addition to this effect, the controlled opponent temporarily gains the puppet master’s Dexterity, and cannot move more than 30 ft. from the puppet master. The save is Charisma-based.
A puppet master can control up to two opponents at a time in this manner. However, they cannot attack normally with the strings thus occupied. Any opponent that has succeeded on its Will save to negate the effect may make a DC 15 Strength check or a DC 20 Escape Artist check to escape the strings. If the opponent fails to escape, the puppet master may try to dominate it again on the puppet master’s next turn without making another attack.

Debby

[Frathe]

Strings should be reworded so that it matches the dominate person spell, which means it ONLY works on Humanoids. Even though Supernatural abilities are always charisma-based, it should still be mentioned. I also fixed some grammatical issues.


Strings (Su): To use this ability, a puppet master must hit a Humanoid opponent with its string attack. If the opponent fails a DC 16 Will save, the puppet master gains control of the opponent as a dominate person spell, but with a new save allowed every round, with the same DC as the first; no common language requirement for complex commands; and an exclusion of all other activities, even those needed for survival. In addition to this effect, the controlled opponent temporarily gains the puppet master’s Dexterity, and cannot move more than 30 ft. from the puppet master. The save is Charisma-based.
A puppet master can control up to two opponents at a time in this manner. However, they cannot attack normally with the strings thus occupied. Any opponent that has succeeded on its Will save to negate the effect may make a DC 15 Strength check or a DC 20 Escape Artist check to escape the strings. If the opponent fails to escape, the puppet master may try to dominate it again on the puppet master’s next turn without making another attack.

Debby

Okay, I have put those changes through, with a few changes of my own. I would dispute that those were "grammatical errors" so much as logical ones, though. But thanks for the mechanical corrections.