Passive Telepathy [3.5]

[PlusSixPelican]

In reading up on a character I'm rolling up, (a Succubus), at second level (starting level third), I've got Telepathy with a range of 100 feet. It says I can communicate with any creature that has a language. Does this mean I could, say, distract a spellcaster by constantly spamming their mind with gibberish? Could I read the surface thoughts (stuff they're actively thinking) of anyone within a hundred feet? (as I also have Tongues, I could hear their thoughts in say, Gnoll and still get it.) I'm wondering what the limits of this ability are, since it could be very interesting.

[Fouredged Sword]

You can do anything you can already do with your voice, but through telepathy, so you can talk without making noise. You cannot distract spellcasters without a really good bluff, diplomacy, or intimidate check and a nice DM.

Take the mindsight feat. It turns that into 100ft auto detect everything with a mind.

[Psyren]

Ruleswise, Telepathy isn't much different than speech - it would be like trying to distract them by babbling constantly. I would say that the basic training (or natural talent) required to become a spellcaster in the first place lets them ignore such petty things.

Telepathy doesn't give you the ability to read thoughts unless it specifically says it does.

How are you starting at 3rd level as a Succubus? They have 6 RHD and 6 LA. A 3rd-level Succubus is a 15th level character.

[PlusSixPelican]

How are you starting at 3rd level as a Succubus? They have 6 RHD and 6 LA. A 3rd-level Succubus is a 15th level character.

There's a bunch of progression charts in Savage Species, for a lot of monsters, such as Minotaurs, Treants, various Giants, and yes, Succubi/Incubi. It's kind of like taking class levels in Monster. It gives out the abilities over time, so I've got some resists (no electric immunity yet), and only some of the SLAs 1/day, as well as getting Tongues/Telepathy at second level, and flight (50 feet/average) at third. I'm CR 2, but ECL 3, so I'm not a full-blown Succubus or anything.

[Urpriest]

There's a bunch of progression charts in Savage Species, for a lot of monsters, such as Minotaurs, Treants, various Giants, and yes, Succubi/Incubi. It's kind of like taking class levels in Monster. It gives out the abilities over time, so I've got some resists (no electric immunity yet), and only some of the SLAs 1/day, as well as getting Tongues/Telepathy at second level, and flight (50 feet/average) at third. I'm CR 2, but ECL 3, so I'm not a full-blown Succubus or anything.

If you're using that stuff, do be aware that it was made for the 3.0 succubus, and should be altered somewhat for 3.5. That said, Succubus is one of the better Savage Species monster progressions, so it's not all that bad a choice.

You can't use Telepathy itself to read minds, since the only information you get from others are their intentional responses to your communication.

[PlusSixPelican]

If you're using that stuff, do be aware that it was made for the 3.0 succubus, and should be altered somewhat for 3.5. That said, Succubus is one of the better Savage Species monster progressions, so it's not all that bad a choice.

Altered? How so? (I'm not familiar with the 3.0-to-3.5 differences.) I'm wondering if, say, the class skills are off.


You can't use Telepathy itself to read minds, since the only information you get from others are their intentional responses to your communication.

That's good to know.

[Karnith]

Altered? How so? (I'm not familiar with the 3.0-to-3.5 differences.)
Offhand, I seem to recall that the 3.0 succubus has a 10 percent chance of summoning a Balor when using its summon demon ability that the 3.5 succubus doesn't have. There are almost certainly other differences, but I don't have Savage Species handy and don't know for sure.

And for reference, the in-game definition of telepathy is as follows:

A creature with this ability can communicate telepathically with any other creature within a certain range (specified in the creature’s entry, usually 100 feet) that has a language. It is possible to address multiple creatures at once telepathically, although maintaining a telepathic conversation with more than one creature at a time is just as difficult as simultaneously speaking and listening to multiple people at the same time.

Some creatures have a limited form of telepathy, while others have a more powerful form of the ability.
Telepathy is basically just a non-audible substitute for speech; you can't force someone to communicate with you telepathically any more than you can force someone to talk to you.

[TuggyNE]

You can do anything you can already do with your voice, but through telepathy, so you can talk without making noise. You cannot distract spellcasters without a really good bluff, diplomacy, or intimidate check and a nice DM.
Ruleswise, Telepathy isn't much different than speech - it would be like trying to distract them by babbling constantly. I would say that the basic training (or natural talent) required to become a spellcaster in the first place lets them ignore such petty things.

Well, I'd personally say it could force a Concentration check; unfortunately, it'd be at a pretty low DC (10 or so), and probably wouldn't scale.

[NotScaryBats]

Succubi get Detect Thoughts (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectThoughts.htm) for exactly what you want -- reading surface thoughts. Dunno when in your progression you get it, but look forward to it!

[Urpriest]

Altered? How so? (I'm not familiar with the 3.0-to-3.5 differences.) I'm wondering if, say, the class skills are off.


I don't remember the details. There are a lot of little differences, though, with the summoning issue mentioned by Karnith being just one of them. I'd advise going through the two with a fine-toothed comb to figure out what changed and what didn't.

[Karnith]

I don't remember the details. There are a lot of little differences, though, with the summoning issue mentioned by Karnith being just one of them. I'd advise going through the two with a fine-toothed comb to figure out what changed and what didn't.
I just checked on it; as far as I can tell, the 3.0 succubus has a number of spell-like abilities that the 3.5 one doesn't (clairaudience/clairovyance, darkness, desecrate, doom, and unholy blight), its change shape ability lets it change into any small, medium, or large humanoid (in 3.5 it can't turn into a large humanoid), its SR is drastically lower (I suspect that they meant to say 6 + class levels, not 6 + HD), its damage reduction works differently because of the 3.0 DR rules, and the skill list is slightly different between the two versions (the 3.0 version has Ride and doesn't have Intimidate).

[PlusSixPelican]

I do need to look into how my spell resistance works...thanks for the heads up. ^u^

[Greenish]

(the 3.0 version has Ride and doesn't have Intimidate).Why would a succubus have Ride?

…

…Oh. :smallredface:

[Psyren]

Why would a succubus have Ride?

…

…Oh. :smallredface:

And many a wight was born that day, sporting massive grins.

[PlusSixPelican]

Could I make a case for having Ride *and* Intimidate?

[Psyren]

Could I make a case for having Ride *and* Intimidate?

Greenish's... *ahem* ...observations aside, I don't see why they would need Ride. The vulnerable damsel who can barely handle her horse making the gallant knight swoop her into the saddle behind him is a fairly standard trope, and would play right into the Succubus' plans. Looking too capable might raise suspicions.

[PlusSixPelican]

I suppose. I'd think Diplomacy would be on the list, since I mean, there's SO MUCH CHA being wasted if it's not. (Even if you're evil, Diplo lets you play it subtle.)

[Karnith]

I suppose. I'd think Diplomacy would be on the list, since I mean, there's SO MUCH CHA being wasted if it's not. (Even if you're evil, Diplo lets you play it subtle.)
Unfortunately, a monster's class skills are only those skills that the creature is listed as having ranks in in its stat block. Since diplomacy isn't really intended to be used on PCs, and since the people who built standard succubus didn't really intend for it to be played (and also had a dubious understanding of how to build effective monsters), it got no ranks in Diplomacy and instead got ranks in ever-useful skills like Concentration and Escape Artist.

[Slipperychicken]

Could I make a case for having Ride *and* Intimidate?

Succubi can fly as fast as a horse can run (50ft fly speed), and Greater Teleport at will. It strains credulity to suggest these beings would ever have use for the skill.

[Erik Vale]

As part of their cover they may need to ride a horse alongside [insert high profile person here].

Or to ride their suduced dragon mount...

[Phelix-Mu]

Greenish's... *ahem* ...observations aside, I don't see why they would need Ride. The vulnerable damsel who can barely handle her horse making the gallant knight swoop her into the saddle behind him is a fairly standard trope, and would play right into the Succubus' plans. Looking too capable might raise suspicions.

It takes all kinds, though.

Frankly, if I were DM...*ahem*her demonic overlord, I'd give the succubus a free retraining of five of her skills before every mission. Or just have a succubus for each skill set...I guess she can Bluff to pretend that she knows about x or y, and use other trickery, but I'd have to agree that Ride is not going to be the most effective device.

Succubus PC definitely needs Diplomacy as a racial skill. The racial skills lists are borked, btw, as an Int-based character in some of these races will rapidly have way more skill points then they have class skills to put them in. Remember to invest in skill tricks as a useful way to burn the difference. Several of the interaction skill tricks are very good for deceivers.

And while we are on the succubi matter, I would like to put in a plug for Fiend of Corruption NPC class for fiends in Fiend Folio. It probably shouldn't be available to PCs (talk to the DM...:smallwink: ), but it has some really cool abilities that would liven up some of the fiends you will likely be hobnobbing with as an immature succubus.

And while we are on the matter of sketchy...immature succubi...