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View Full Version : How do you figure out what a magic item does without Identify?



Trekkin
2013-02-20, 02:10 AM
I'm in a modern fantasy game right now where we have an artifact (or at least, it isn't made of normal matter, casually violates the laws of physics as regards its own mass, etc), but no clue what it does except that a lot of very powerful people want it...and we're basically a bunch of fatally creative IT guys, so we have a significant impetus to figure out what it does rapidly.

It occurs to me, then, that someone somewhere has to have adapted existing procedures for dealing with dangerous unknowns to D&D, ideally in the form of a checklist like the Air Force one for checking if a plant is poisonous. Has some genre savvy gamer tried to compile a standard operating procedure for figuring out how to operate something known to be magical while knowing next to nothing else about it?

The setting is based on Cthulhutech, by the way, so the chances are very good it will be fatal in some way.

ArcturusV
2013-02-20, 02:26 AM
Well, it's evil space squid tentacle monster gods... so my general advice would be to lock it away in a secure vault and don't even bother. It will probably kill you off faster if you mess with it.

Based on setting of course some things are worth mentioning... I've seen theories that measuring electrical fields and current being channeled through the device could help gauge it's power. Generally for settings where electricity following Natural Law, and Magic following Supernatural Law don't mix. Regular, measurable inputs of electricity will be warped by the magic. The more magic there is in the device, the worse the warping effect off what you'd normally expect off running similar tests with mundane objects of similar composition. So that as a start could give you a quick "power estimate" for just how powerful this supernatural artifact is.

Beyond that it's USUALLY a case that I see in a more modern/low magic setting that you figure stuff like that out from reading some ancient book which goes, "Hey, picture of item, here's what it's called and what it does in quasi-vague terms!"

Rhynn
2013-02-20, 02:34 AM
If it's Cthulhuesque, the standard approach is research in dusty, forbidden tomes kept in special collections at university libraries (conveniently all in the United States!).

Most RPG identify-the-hard-way methods tend to be very item-dependent, having a small animal taste drops of potions, dropping them on plants, etc. If this is an artifact, it's probably got some highly specific use requiring a particular place or ritual, and you don't have a hope of randomly figuring it out.

FWIW, though, expose it to different elements/situations (put it under water, hold it aloft in a thunderstorm, set it on fire, etc.), and see how it reacts.


Well, it's evil space squid tentacle monster gods... so my general advice would be to lock it away in a secure vault and don't even bother. It will probably kill you off faster if you mess with it.


:smallfurious: Then why even play a horror game?

ArcturusV
2013-02-20, 02:39 AM
To get to the end of it. And not end the game right off the bat by poking the evil artifact that will turn me inside out right off the bat. :smallbiggrin: Usually the way those go in my experience, someone wants the Artifact and is trying to use it for Bad Things(t) anyway, so not using the Artifact is more foiling the enemy's plans... and probably making you a huge target because as long as you have it (And are not using it to trigger the Bad Thing) they will keep coming at you.

Which I'm fine with.

Erik Vale
2013-02-20, 03:49 AM
You use it in various ways and see what it does.

Oh wait, that system. You just burn it and watch the pretty lights hoping it wasn't ment to be burned.

Trekkin
2013-02-20, 04:29 AM
Burning it was my first thought, but we're assuming going forward that at some point, someone's going to want it back and figure out we have it, and it may even be in our best interests to give it to them--but in order to figure out who, we need to know what it is.
So if we destroy it, we're certainly dead, but if we poke it until it does something sanity-destroying, there's a statistically negligible chance we can survive this. Besides, if we set off the Apocalypse sideways by accident, other people might survive too! I'm an optimist.
It's a necklace and pendant, by the way, so other than wearing it, using it as a hair tie, and trying to hypnotize each other with it, we're out of different ways to use it. It changes temperature depending on who wears it, has near-if-not-zero thermal and electrical conductivity despite being made of metal, and its mass varies randomly over a hundred-fold range several times a second.

Also, when we locked it in a vault (breaking into the vault to do so, by the by) it came back.

GnomeFighter
2013-02-20, 04:56 AM
Slip it in to another member of the partys pocket and run. Fast. Let them deal with it.

Or alternatively, arcana and religion checks from as many people as possible and see what the DM gives you and work from there.

You could try random things but this has two problems:
1) it could be lethal
2) it could take a long time to find the right way to set it off (And there are probably hundreds of wrong ways, DM dependant).

Rhynn
2013-02-20, 05:13 AM
Since it's a necklace, have different people wear it, then do different things to them (submerge in water, etc. - start with stuff that's not harmful in and of itself). Have a man wear it, a woman wear it, a virgin wear it, child, old person, priest, heretic, murderer, condemned man, etc.

It really is entirely possible that, in and of itself, it does nothing. It might hold some kind of information if treated or examined the right way. It could contain a trapped soul or essence of some being.


Slip it in to another member of the partys pocket and run. Fast. Let them deal with it.


:smallfurious: Then why even play a horror game?

:smallfurious: :smallfurious:

Jack of Spades
2013-02-20, 07:09 AM
A necklace, eh?

Try killing/feeding/loving someone who's wearing it in as many ways (and meanings for those three words) as possible. Repeat for all the types of people Rhynn suggested. While doing the tests have those people make random noises so that you can possibly end up stumbling upon an activation word in the eldritch tongues.

Did the emotional/mental/physical/spiritual/psychological state of the wearer correspond in any way to the mass/temperature difference? If you don't know, take notes!

Go to every art gallery, dusty library, and decrepit old house in town and look for a painting that has the pendant in it.

Try to fit the pendant into every single blemish that looks like it may be a slot.

Try eating it. See if it appears outside the person's stomach, and whether it burrowed its way out or just went poof.

Failing all of that, try to break it. Important magical items can't be broken most of the time. And if they are breakable, they're probably holding the important magical item rather than actually being the important item.

Then, repeat all of that at night.

Then, repeat all of that for each phase of the moon each month until you figure it out.

Meanwhile, make sure to watch where the stars are during each of those tests, as there may be an astrological trigger.

And by the time you're done, they'll probably have found another damn pendant and will leave you alone.:smallbiggrin:

DigoDragon
2013-02-20, 08:31 AM
With the last modern campaign I took part in, the introduction a magic item usually meant spending several days going through old books in the library to try and research the item. Sometimes there's a historical text that might give a good clue as to what the object does.

Other than that, not much could be done other than experimentation.

Though if you're a team of creative IT folks, you could probably build a few robots to test the thing at a distance first. Just in case it explodes or something.

FreakyCheeseMan
2013-02-20, 09:55 AM
Whose worn it, and what temperatures has it gone to?

Frozen_Feet
2013-02-21, 07:02 AM
Jack of Spades gave you a good start. Other things to consider:

Dip it in various acids. See how or if it reacts.

Sacrifice small animals / people / whatever to it. Dip it in their blood.

Recite all prayers and names of Lovecraftian beings you can find from your local Necronomicon variant while holding the pendant at hand.

Repeatedly smash it with a hammer. If it doesn't break, find a bigger hammer.

Get hold of different metals. When the pendant changes density, get it in contact with metal of closest to equivalent density.

See if you can get the temperature to rise high enough to burn something, or low enough to freeze something.

Get a microscope and examine the surface.

Try taking tiny samples of the pendant and see if it keeps its properties.

llehctim
2013-03-20, 11:31 AM
New information on the item: it has two pieced of cloth one on either side of the "blade" of the pendant. The left cloth is black with red letters that translates to "From Conquest Comes Peace". The right cloth is white with blue letters that translate to "From Peace Comes Prosperity".

Lord Torath
2013-03-20, 12:06 PM
It's probably a katana in disguise. Just hang on to it until its true owner shows up. :smalltongue::smallannoyed:

If asking about libraries doesn't spontaneously cause them all to disappear, I'd recommend the research route. There are so many possibilities of things that could activate it, and so many possibilities of what it does, that, unless you can read the DM's mind (or peek at his notes), you're unlikely to stumble upon it through "testing."

mjlush
2013-03-20, 12:52 PM
I'm in a modern fantasy game right now where we have an artifact (or at least, it isn't made of normal matter, casually violates the laws of physics as regards its own mass, etc), but no clue what it does except that a lot of very powerful people want it...and we're basically a bunch of fatally creative IT guys, so we have a significant impetus to figure out what it does rapidly.


Well the very powerful people who want it clearly know what it does... why not do a little penetration testing on their IT systems and 'ask' them.

You may get some info from the goons that were sent to get it. They may have been issued with a silver lined case or been given specific instructions on what not to do.

Rhynn
2013-03-20, 01:30 PM
New information on the item: it has two pieced of cloth one on either side of the "blade" of the pendant. The left cloth is black with red letters that translates to "From Conquest Comes Peace". The right cloth is white with blue letters that translate to "From Peace Comes Prosperity".

Given all the info from the other thread (I'm assuming this is the same campaign)...

The item doesn't even have a defined use or purpose until your GM comes up with it. If you deduce what it is, it'll change.

You're just hanging on to this McGuffin until the railroad conductor asks for it back.

Sith_Happens
2013-03-20, 05:44 PM
It's probably a katana in disguise. Just hang on to it until its true owner shows up. :smalltongue::smallannoyed:

Beat me to it.

Anyways, considering the above, I suggest throwing it into the fires of Mount Doom and pretending it never existed.

Deffers
2013-03-20, 06:10 PM
Yeeaaah... good odds you won't figure it out if he doesn't want you to. I'd go to a college and use an electron microscope to look at its surface. Maybe chip a bit off of it and do some spectroscopy on it? Hey, it worked for the color out of space...

Waspinator
2013-03-20, 07:06 PM
Try smacking people with it and see what happens to them?

JackRose
2013-03-20, 07:19 PM
Lick it. Actually an option in some systems.

(Pathfinder lets you use perception to determine the nature of a potion).

ReaderAt2046
2013-03-20, 07:31 PM
Try bringing it into a church and see if it reacts in any way.

Dip it in holy water and communion wine, if you can find any.

Soak it in blood and other bodily fluids.

Throw it in a furnace.

If it doesn't react to any of the above, try scratching off a bit of the material and see if it keeps its properties.

llehctim
2013-03-21, 09:57 AM
I suspect that any attempts to destroy it would likely fail, as it keeps popping up in my characters possession.
My theories for why this is the case is my character is also from another reality and uses magic that's not available in the setting (not as awesome as it sounds since I have to research everything from scratch).
Which by technicality also make the "prophecy" that vaguely refers to the savior could refer to me, but I'm pretty sure I'm not powerful enough to be considered a savior of much of anything (except the people I heal I suppose)
Clearly the artifact is trying to find the Mary Sue and my character is the closest it can find ... crap.

Feddlefew
2013-03-21, 10:08 AM
-Eat it. Remind DM of the final stages of digestion....

Deffers
2013-03-21, 10:11 AM
Might not be a bad idea. With all luck, Sue will be disgusted enough to let you be the savior.

randomhero00
2013-03-21, 11:47 AM
Well maybe this is too obvious but...have you tried your own unique magic on it? Tried using it as some sort of focus? I have no idea how your magic system works but its obviously responding to your foreign energy signature.

Is it magnetic? I don't think anyone asked that but I forget.

Is there anything that blocks your magic? Like an anti magic field? Or perhaps a faraday cage?

My idea being, put the amulet away somewhere, then put some blood/hair/skin shavings in a beaker (use as much as you can, and as much as you can think of just in case), enter cage, and see if the amulet pops out to your un-shielded (temporarily) alive cells.

Anyways, that would tell you for certain if its reacting to YOU or just the foreign energy signature. After all there could be something else unique about your character. Perhaps there is another piece that goes with the amulet and you actually have it on your character...it could be innocuous like a rabbits foot key chain.

Sith_Happens
2013-03-21, 01:19 PM
I suspect that any attempts to destroy it would likely fail, as it keeps popping up in my characters possession.
My theories for why this is the case is my character is also from another reality and uses magic that's not available in the setting (not as awesome as it sounds since I have to research everything from scratch).

Take it back to your reality* and see if its behavior changes at all?


* And stay there. I believe I've gone over this plan in the other thread already.

Feddlefew
2013-03-21, 02:08 PM
Take it back to your reality* and see if its behavior changes at all?


* And stay there. I believe I've gone over this plan in the other thread already.

While you're there, bury it in a pile of coffee grounds.

Deffers
2013-03-21, 02:29 PM
Oh, crap. Yeah. Do testing with it on liquor and coffee grounds. GM might give you an amusing anecdote which you can then use to make him rue the day he was born-- a long shot, but hell.

randomhero00
2013-03-21, 07:27 PM
Oh, crap. Yeah. Do testing with it on liquor and coffee grounds. GM might give you an amusing anecdote which you can then use to make him rue the day he was born-- a long shot, but hell.

huh??

are you referring to the myth that strong liquor or coffee can fool a dogs nose?

otherwise, at least me, have no idea what you are talking about.

?

Feddlefew
2013-03-21, 07:40 PM
huh??

are you referring to the myth that strong liquor or coffee can fool a dogs nose?

otherwise, at least me, have no idea what you are talking about.

?

Background information. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275152)

Coffee and Alcohol seem to have some kind of waveform-collapsing effect on the setting.

JackRose
2013-03-21, 07:42 PM
huh??

are you referring to the myth that strong liquor or coffee can fool a dogs nose?

otherwise, at least me, have no idea what you are talking about.

?

Myth? It's a well known fact that the best way to get past guard dogs is to get them well and truly drunk.

Deffers
2013-03-21, 07:50 PM
I'll vouch for that, but... yeah. Mostly an inside joke about these guys' unbelievable DM.

Feddlefew
2013-03-21, 07:52 PM
I'll vouch for that, but... yeah. Mostly an inside joke about these guys' unbelievable DM.

Their DM isn't unbelievable- I don't think someone could make this stuff up. :smalltongue:

Jay R
2013-03-21, 10:28 PM
In Call of Cthulhu, there's a straightforward three-step procedure for finding out what an item does.

1. Examine it carefully.
2. Pick it up and attempt to use it.
3. Roll up a new character.

llehctim
2013-03-22, 12:34 AM
In Call of Cthulhu, there's a straightforward three-step procedure for finding out what an item does.

1. Examine it carefully.
2. Pick it up and attempt to use it.
3. Roll up a new character.

I wish, I made a mistake on my second character, I took the GM up on the offer to play myself who got the ability to use magic and fell in (literally) right when my first char, who i was bored with since as amusing as he was I am not good at playing martial artists, died. (a few other things happened as well making the event almost infinitely improbable)
So I can't kill off this character or put myself in any unnecessary danger without having my own sanity OOC questioned, not that I really want to make a new character, but playing yourself in an RPG is ... initially funny for the shock value, but not something I want to do long term. The GM has also stated that when the Mary sue shows up, he will recognize me, but i wont recognize him. Meaning that following the trends I may or may not have some form of "plot armor".
And given his views on the multivariate setting, I would say this artifact might actually have beneficial results (possibly only when certain people use it)

tldr: I doubt the GM would have given me a artifact that would make me make a new character if he thought I had a chance in hell to use it. :smallannoyed:


"Well maybe this is too obvious but...have you tried your own unique magic on it? Tried using it as some sort of focus? I have no idea how your magic system works but its obviously responding to your foreign energy signature."

This is probably something that should have been our first thought upon figuring that out, in hindsight, ty.

Lord Torath
2013-03-22, 09:23 AM
Wrong thread. Sorry

Hopeless
2013-03-22, 09:45 AM
Do you still have access to the Detect Magic spell as well as an overwhelmingly high Spellcraft skill?

If this is Cthulhu based then yes the magic item is very bad but the books are far worse!:smallbiggrin:

If its a ring let a) someone else put it on, if its a sword then b) someone already has picked it up and if its anything else follow the a part above!:smallbiggrin:

llehctim
2013-03-22, 01:39 PM
Do you still have access to the Detect Magic spell as well as an overwhelmingly high Spellcraft skill?

If this is Cthulhu based then yes the magic item is very bad but the books are far worse!:smallbiggrin:

If its a ring let a) someone else put it on, if its a sword then b) someone already has picked it up and if its anything else follow the a part above!:smallbiggrin:

I do have detect magic, but the thing doesn't detect as magic, I think its a focus for something or a ritual components, or something like that, but it could be heavily shielded. Its a pendant, we have tried putting it on other people, but it keeps coming back to me.

Also that's how I got my magical power, I read a book that fell on my head and the knowledge came out of the book and into my brain :smalltongue:

randomhero00
2013-03-23, 10:53 AM
Considering the book...Maybe hit yourself in the head with the pendant and see if you gain any knowledge? :smallbiggrin: lol

A Tad Insane
2013-03-25, 02:23 AM
I generally throw it at everything, shouting a random word or phrase until something happens. It's very effective, but for some reason magical items always cast the spell that could do the most damage to me when I do that.