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SowZ
2013-02-20, 03:21 AM
1. If you introduce a gladiator arena in a game with any level of sandbox, it will not be a one session thing. The party will stay there until they are the champions. They might stay after for awhile, expecting someone to challenge them as champions. If no one does, they will start challenging potential challengers to challenge them. The party may start to wonder why the Big Bad doesn't just show up and duel them in the arena since it is so much simpler. It isn't a minor distraction, it is a whole sub-plot.

2. Especially in modern or sci-fi games, someone always wants to be the antihero. The guy who will kick the dog and kill the evil but unarmed prisoner with government pull because 'it has to be done' and I'm so BA. Inevitably, at least two people will want to be this guy. They will try and out morally grey each other by doing more and more horrible but somewhat justifiable things until the only sensible thing is to send a massive manhunt for the PCs. Bonus points if most the party had it in mind to be the anti-hero. Everyone ends up grumpy that no one is appalled by their actions, demanding reasons for their deeds as a set up for their perfect Clint Eastwood one liner.

3. They may spend only two minutes planning on how they are going to assault the impenetrable castle/cave of the Big Bad Dragon/Platoon of elite soldiers no matter how many hints you drop that charge in and stab will result in TPK. Should they succeed, though, and you make recovering the loot difficult? As in, you try and make certain things immovable or there is too much stuff so you figured some of it has to be left behind? They will spend forty minutes devising some ingenious way to transport it all.

4. Trust me. There is nothing for predicting which NPCs the party will latch onto and love and which they will despise. It is totally arbitrary. You can spend half an hour on a backstory and personality, giving an NPC personality and clever retorts. Whenever he recurs? They'll say, "Oh, that guy, again..." But you introduce a guide you expect to have four lines and you even think he is a little annoying and the party will adopt him as a pet/mascot.

Hyena
2013-02-20, 03:33 AM
5. If you grant your BBEG even remotely sympathetic goals, don't ponder why your party decided to join him after a while. After all, why not join this man/woman/genderless blob from outer space, if one thing he wants is to help humanity? It does not matter, if his/her methods are a little bit harsh - PCs shoot the dogs every day, so how are they different?
6. If you introduce the police force or city guard in your game, don't expect your murder hobos to befriend the arm of the law. Most likely, they will try to dispose of them, because nobody likes to be punished for things like collateral damage or shooting in public.

supermonkeyjoe
2013-02-20, 04:50 AM
7. no matter how obvious the clue is, don't ever expect the Players to pick up on it, include at least 3 clues per plot point.

8. this goes double for puzzles in dungeons

9. this goes triple for riddles

Maugan Ra
2013-02-20, 05:26 AM
10) If you leave any sort of choice up to your PCs with the expectation that they will do a particular thing (press a certain button, say a certain phrase, kill a certain man, whatever), the chances of them doing so are significantly less than you might think.

10b) The more the plot rests on the strength of a particular decision, the less likely the PCs are to chose the intended option.

GnomeFighter
2013-02-20, 05:49 AM
11) Give the party a choice, no matter how simple, that cannot be solved at the end of a sword or fireball, they will argue for hours.

11a) Even when given a time pressure. All discussion suddenly becomes "out of charicter" no matter how much it seems to the GM this should be in charicter.

11b) use this time for toilet and food brakes. There is nothing better to make a party come to a decision quickly than the GM not being there when they want him/her to be.

hymer
2013-02-20, 05:50 AM
12) Getting useful feedback from players is like pulling teeth.

ArcturusV
2013-02-20, 06:05 AM
13) If you provide a non-combative objective, players will deal with it one of two ways, saying "I roll (relevant skill)" with no elaboration at all, or coming up with a Scooby-Doo Villain level plan where they try to make people think the cabbage patch is infested with Lycanthrope mummy ghosts from Baator just to get the farmer to sell them for half price.

DigoDragon
2013-02-20, 08:39 AM
4. There is nothing for predicting which NPCs the party will latch onto and love and which they will despise. It is totally arbitrary.

So true. So very true.


14. If you're going to make an exception to a rule for one player, always assume that the other players all want an exception too. Also, it may not necessarly be an exception to the same rule.

15. Do not build NPCs on different rules than what the players are allowed to use. The players will assume what you did is fair game and exploit it themselves.

Kaveman26
2013-02-20, 08:53 AM
16.Never aware make PC's aware of a secret door they may have missed. Expect a full excavation project to begin.

17.kobolds with class levels are cliche. Corrollary: Once in every parties life they must meet Tucker's Kobolds.

Jay R
2013-02-20, 10:01 AM
18. Don't make it flammable if you don't want it burnt.

Hyena
2013-02-20, 10:21 AM
19. Nobody likes it when villain is ranting. Players will usually try to shoot the bastard or attempt to kill him mid-speech in some other way.

Elderand
2013-02-20, 10:26 AM
20. Someone will end up quoting monty python or the princess bride.

Morbis Meh
2013-02-20, 10:56 AM
20. Someone will end up quoting monty python or the princess bride.

20 a.) or Dead Ale Wives on DnD

Mono Vertigo
2013-02-20, 11:11 AM
21) If you expect a situation to be resolved in any binary and mutually exclusive way (example: when saving an NPC in distress, that character should either end up free or not free), the players will inadvertently find a 3rd option ("I make a deal with a demon to free the NPC, but make sure it won't take my soul as payment!" "... well, the demon frees the NPC, but in exchange, it separates their soul from their body and keeps it. 'cause that's what demons do.").
Even buttons will end up in a different state than pushed and unpushed.
And it's not even going to be intentional.

GnomeFighter
2013-02-20, 11:17 AM
19. Nobody likes it when villain is ranting. Players will usually try to shoot the bastard or attempt to kill him mid-speech in some other way.

Thats why all villains have the power "monologue"...

BlckDv
2013-02-20, 11:57 AM
22) One of your players is plotting to make Pun-Pun. In any party, someone thinks that the game has to have one winner, and they will pick an aspect of the game (Loot, Level, etc.) that determines who is winning, and will plot ever more elaborate ways to make sure they have the character on top of this ranking. Some lucky groups are able to move past this once a player feels that he has "won" and wants to try other things, other groups are cursed with Charlie Sheen always "Winning!" their games.

EccentricCircle
2013-02-20, 06:07 PM
23) No Plan survives contact with the Player Party.

24) Any section of Plot will take at least twice as long as you expect it to.

25a) Just because it seems obvious to you doesn't mean that it will seem obvious to your players.

25b) Just because it doesn't seem obvious to you doesn't mean that your players won't see through it instantly.

26) Expect the Unexpected...

HC Rainbow
2013-02-20, 07:27 PM
27) Do not make a very deep pitfall, The players will jump into it because potato.

28) Do not make the end of the dungeon too hard to locate, the players will search for pitfalls and jump into them.


They forgot about one door in my dungeon, and decided to jump into an endless pit, hoping it would lead the way.
There were no survivors.

Kaun
2013-02-20, 07:47 PM
29) When your players devise a plan that is more then likely to result in their deaths but with a tiny tiny tiny chance of success, outlining the odds of TPK vs Win to them only increases their enthusiasm for said plan.

29.B) When TPK occurs they will undoubtedly pin all blame on you.

30) If you don't want the players to have it, don't put it in your game. Poorly worded flavor text is the bane of every DM at some time or another.

A Tad Insane
2013-02-20, 07:56 PM
31) If you let the party go where ever they want, notes will do you no good when they inevitably invent space travel or survive falling off the edge of the world.

Jacob.Tyr
2013-02-20, 08:37 PM
Going back to #1... I had the exact opposite happen. I wanted to do a few arena fights and set up some complex scenarios to test out their builds. I set up antimagic cells made of adamantium, epic level locks, guards, reinforced walls.

They stayed in their holding cells for all of 15 minutes before figuring out a way to escape that involved gratuitous amounts of punching and some slas I didn't plan for.

For our start I told the players "You're on a ship to X town, I don't know why, I'm not your character". My little arena scenario managed to turn a few sessions worth of planned simple gaming into one of the most obscene sandbox games I've ever ran, as I just rolled with whatever reasons they gave me for heading to that town and rolled out an impromptu world based on what they said were their characters motivations.

Kaun
2013-02-20, 08:47 PM
by the sounds of it, you forced them into the arena where the op just offered it as a side thought.

Joe the Rat
2013-02-20, 11:27 PM
32) If you expect them to fight, they'll talk their way out of it. If you expect them to talk to something, they'll try to kill it.

33) If you have an ABSOLUTELY VITAL clue that is needed to make progress on their quest/mission/thing, don't expect them to look for it.

Guizonde
2013-02-21, 12:36 AM
32) If you expect them to fight, they'll talk their way out of it. If you expect them to talk to something, they'll try to kill it.

33) If you have an ABSOLUTELY VITAL clue that is needed to make progress on their quest/mission/thing, don't expect them to look for it.

thanks for laconically quoting my first experience as dm.

34: beware magic. seriously, it makes physics, logic, plot, and sanity run in a corner to cry.

35:rule 0 exists for a reason. do not abuse it, but remember why it exists next time your bard and sorceror intrepid duo rip off the town treasury by throwing barracudas in the town palace.

(ok, there's causation-correlation between the two :smallannoyed:)

36: cheat-sheets for character profiles are encouraged. looking for a specific profile for 5 minutes will bore the players, who'll most likely go into full-on murderhobo mode while you're not paying attention.

37: never say "i didn't expect that". it encourages the pc's to continue doing unpredictable things. (like collapsing the dungeon to bypass the load-bearing boss)

Saito Takuji
2013-02-21, 12:40 AM
Going back to #1... I had the exact opposite happen. I wanted to do a few arena fights and set up some complex scenarios to test out their builds. I set up antimagic cells made of adamantium, epic level locks, guards, reinforced walls.

They stayed in their holding cells for all of 15 minutes before figuring out a way to escape that involved gratuitous amounts of punching and some slas I didn't plan for.

For our start I told the players "You're on a ship to X town, I don't know why, I'm not your character". My little arena scenario managed to turn a few sessions worth of planned simple gaming into one of the most obscene sandbox games I've ever ran, as I just rolled with whatever reasons they gave me for heading to that town and rolled out an impromptu world based on what they said were their characters motivations.

this is my mainstay of GMing when i do so, i usually have some kind of backbone as to what is going on and if the players don't follow that backbone, well they had the opurtunities, and the concequences are on them

SgtCarnage92
2013-02-21, 04:02 AM
38) When you expect to run a sandbox, the PCs will stand around with no idea of what to do. If you run a plot-focused game, they will turn it into a sandbox.

Ranting Fool
2013-02-21, 07:38 AM
39:

When the PC's capture any humanoids who don't have giant glowing signs saying "I'm Evil" they will inevitably spend the next hour or so arguing whether or not the local laws are fair enough for the crime of said prisoner, if the punishment is Death or Dismemberment and at least one player disagrees then expect this to take longer :smallbiggrin:

Surfnerd
2013-02-21, 09:06 AM
@SgtCarnage isn't that the truth of it!!!!!

40. Expect players to paraphrase or take out of context or just plain misunderstand rules in their favor. "I'm pretty sure full defense is just something you declare at the beginning of combat and lasts the whole time....Thats how I read it.... What? No I um.. didn't bring my rulebook."

Jane_Smith
2013-02-21, 10:08 AM
41: Alway's expect a player to punch a npc. No, they don't need a reason. But if they DO have a good reason, no amount of traps, guards, anti magic fields, pitfalls, blackmail, inevitables or the fact that npc is a DRAGON, nothing will stop that player from falcon punching them. Yes, even if that player is a caster (especially if its a caster). Yes, even if it results in a TPK. And alway's expect them to ask to perform an unarmed attack with a touch spell or power while doing it. Or even try to provoke a bullrush. Extra points if fire is used in some way during the punch.

EccentricCircle
2013-02-21, 10:33 AM
42) Don't Panic

43) "Erosion" is the little known eighth school of magic: Fire and Frost spells will inevitably be used for purposes of breaking hinges, bars, walls, doors, etc.


edit: My appologies, I nearly made point 42 the one about Erosion, but of course it isn't.

A Tad Insane
2013-02-21, 11:22 AM
44) If you note something of importance during your narration, the PCs will write it off as unimportant. If, however, you mention an unimportant object on a whim, they will spend th next half hour seeing if it is a trap/contains loot

RolandDeschain
2013-02-21, 11:31 AM
45) Never expect spellcasters to have any idea about how magic works or what his/her spells actually do w/o spending a minimum of 15 minutes with his/her nose in a rule book every time they cast a spell.

46) Accept the fact that it is your fault when randomly generated items/treasure are not readily usable by the party

ArcturusV
2013-02-21, 02:19 PM
46-a: Expect that even IF the items are readily usable that your players will still consider it "junk" to sell off and complain about not getting GOOD items.

SgtCarnage92
2013-02-21, 03:53 PM
47. If the PCs capture anyone, at least one player will suggest resorting to torture, and it will often be the most "good" aligned character in the party.

48. Players will be angry with you if you do not use their back story for a plot hook, and they will be even more angry with you if you don't do it how they would have.

49. You will accidentally crit with a monster that was supposed to be an easy fight, and you will horribly fail every roll related to the boss monster.

50. If the monster is even vaguely female and humanoid, somebody will try to have sex with it. No exceptions.

51. All PCs at one time or another contemplate what would happen if they tried to kill one of the Gods. Some of them will actually succeed.

Erik Vale
2013-02-21, 04:31 PM
50. If the monster is even vaguely female and humanoid, somebody will try to have sex with it. No exceptions.


I think that one was given the wrong number.

ArcturusV
2013-02-21, 04:34 PM
50-a: Even if it grants negative levels anytime it touches you.

50-b: ESPECIALLY if it grants negative level anytime it touches you.

50-c: They will still list it as their favor PC deaths.

Jane_Smith
2013-02-21, 07:32 PM
50-D: Especially if they had levels in bard.

Fable Wright
2013-02-21, 08:51 PM
52. Do not try to predict the PC's actions.
52a. If you think you can (or can) accurately predict the PC's actions, don't tell them.
52b. If you do tell them, don't be surprised when the next building full of defenseless people is firebombed.

Komodo
2013-02-21, 09:22 PM
53) If a PC destroys a major structure, and that structure is fixed instantly/the next time he is in that part of town, the player will be pissed.

54) If there is some mechanic that is supposed to affect the Player's roleplaying (i.e.: something that makes him angry, takes away his anger, makes him happy, makes him insane) then they will either continue roleplaying in the exact same way with no noticeable differences and find some excuse for why it works that way, or they will fight the change with all their might.

55) Any mechanic that is supposed to affect a PCs memory doesn't work. If they are supposed to forget a significant event, the player won't, and at least one will still act as usual. If they are selling a memory in some strange Otherworld, the experience will mean nothing to them. If they're supposed to now think that the big great magic sword isn't so big and great and magic, they will fight to the death to regain that memory before selling away the sword.

56) Do not put in any characters that you hope will not die; do not put in any characters who you claim cannot die. The former will probably die, the latter will become #1 on the players' hit list, and killing him becomes less of a matter of wearing off his hit points and more a matter of wearing off your patience.

Raimun
2013-02-21, 09:26 PM
57. Seriously, puzzles with one right solution are right out. Especially if they are meant to open a door. Include them only if everyone present enjoys 30+ minutes of trial and error that leads them nowhere. No one will come up with the solution. Not even that smart guy. Nor that one who should get the reference. Nor the one with the good intuition. The power gamer can't solve it because it's about the min of his max. How about that guy who just gets lucky every time? Not this time.

ArcturusV
2013-02-21, 09:31 PM
54: No matter how clever you think it would be to have an entire dungeon based off Puzzles/Minigames... no. Don't. It is a terrible idea. You end up with Stop and Go playing where every puzzle/minigame stops you from playing DnD and puts you into playing something else until you finish it. And then you get about 3 minutes of DnD again until you run into the next Stop.

55: Players, even ones who claim to be clever, have no knowledge of basic scam theory. They will fall for every single, basic scam you can think of. If this is a Shell Game Con, or Three Card Monty variant, or even just the pickpocket who pretends to be a helpful guide. Even the guy who is playing the supposedly paranoid character will accept these scams at face value. Even in a world where divinations and healing are common place they'll still presume the kid pretending to be a blind cripple is in fact a blind cripple and in no way conning them.

Joe the Rat
2013-02-22, 12:03 AM
42) Don't Panic

Joke aside, that's good advice.

Seharvepernfan
2013-02-22, 05:02 AM
60. They will not do it the easy/simple way. They'll probably avoid the obvious and easy path in favor of a more difficult one that will involve their class abilities.

I'm pretty sure somebody already said it, but: it will take longer than you think.

If you think they can handle the enemy, you're probably wrong. If you think the enemy will be challenging, you're probably wrong.

Shoot Da Moon
2013-02-22, 07:13 AM
61) Always be mindful of which languages the party and its hirelings/allies/prisoners/spirit friends/animal companions/helpful bystanders/whatever know. It's not just important to have a shared language across the entire party (logistical troubles of this sort slow the action down like it was directed by George Lucas), but to have a language that is useful for information gathering.

Jack of Spades
2013-02-22, 07:19 AM
61) Always be mindful of which languages the party and its hirelings/allies/prisoners/spirit friends/animal companions/helpful bystanders/whatever know. It's not just important to have a shared language across the entire party (logistical troubles of this sort slow the action down like it was directed by George Lucas), but to have a language that is useful for information gathering.

Also, PvP language use is always hilarious. The last PF game I was in involved a lot of that between my Halfling and the Dwarf: we muttered profanities in Giant at one another, realized we both knew Giant, then started saying them in our racial tongues instead :smalltongue:

DigoDragon
2013-02-22, 08:14 AM
62. Build your BBEGs smarter, not tougher. Big nasty dragons are fairly standard and forgettable, but they'll always remember that evil Bard who has the city guard eating out of his hand when the party can't seem to get him arrested for anything.

GnomeFighter
2013-02-22, 08:21 AM
55) Any mechanic that is supposed to affect a PCs memory doesn't work. If they are supposed to forget a significant event, the player won't, and at least one will still act as usual. If they are selling a memory in some strange Otherworld, the experience will mean nothing to them. If they're supposed to now think that the big great magic sword isn't so big and great and magic, they will fight to the death to regain that memory before selling away the sword.

63) Yet players will never remember things you think they should. Names of important people, places, what they were actualy sent on the quest to do. Sent them off to recover an artifact from a dungeon and they will clear the place down to a microbiological level given the chance, as long as they get some loot, yet when they get to the end you will be lucky if the remember they were looking for the "Thingamy. For whats his name back in that town", more likely try and walk off from the boss without the item they came to find unless you mark the thing in neon lights.

64) When they do find the artifact never make it something usefull to them or they will start to calculate the value of keeping it themselves.

RolandDeschain
2013-02-22, 09:41 AM
65. The words "Tactical Withdrawal" do not exist in the PC lexicon, and it's your fault.

66. Each player is allotted approximately 25 minutes per turn, but your fifteen monsters(including the BBEG) must complete their actions in 2 minutes or less.

Techmagss
2013-02-22, 10:00 AM
67: Should you play with a known meta gamer make all the things he tries to pull or use logic against either eat him or break off.

68: If your PCs ever cast a level 6 or above spell in town have them arrested for conspiring with demons

68a: Bonus points if it's necromancy.

69: Should a succubus walk up to one of your PCs they will always have sex with it.

69a: Even if they're a paladin.

RolandDeschain
2013-02-22, 10:08 AM
69: Should a succubus walk up to one of your PCs they will always have sex with it.

I'm pretty sure there is a rule that states all succubi are recumbent

Jay R
2013-02-22, 10:21 AM
70. It's your job to build the problem. It's their job to find a solution. (If you invent the solution, then nothing else will work. But if you just build an escape-proof death trap, then any clever plan they come up with might work.)

Techmagss
2013-02-22, 10:27 AM
I'm pretty sure there is a rule that states all succubi are recumbent

But it doesn't say that
It says that all succubi are rectum bent

RolandDeschain
2013-02-22, 10:45 AM
Actually it doesn't say that anywhere in the SRD nor Wikipedia, the word is not even mentioned.

guess I should have added a smiley face or something to indicate that I was joking...wait, unless you're joking too :smallsmile:

HC Rainbow
2013-02-22, 12:10 PM
65. The words "Tactical Withdrawal" do not exist in the PC lexicon, and it's your fault.

66. Each player is allotted approximately 25 minutes per turn, but your fifteen monsters(including the BBEG) must complete their actions in 2 minutes or less.

both are too true, I lol'd too hard.

71. Its your fault they failed their saves, period.

72. there is always 1 racist member of every party, No exceptions.

73. Never entertain the idea of dwarf tossing, the bar will collapse.

74. If one of your PCs are a barbarian, expect everything to be broken. Everything.

Razanir
2013-02-22, 03:45 PM
74. If one of your PCs are a barbarian, expect everything to be broken. Everything.

74a) If your PCs are chaotic, expect everything broken.

74b) Especially if they're Chaotic Stupid Neutral

Story:
They were gifted a small house in the city in exchange for capturing a criminal. Around the same time, they thought it'd be fun to steal a painting. One successful heist later, they punched a hole in the wall of their house so they'd have somewhere to hang it. Later they found a cabin in the woods to use as a base. They punched another hole in the wall FOR NO REASON then declared they needed another painting

ArcturusV
2013-02-22, 07:42 PM
75) No one will have a thesaurus handy. This will cause no short amount of grief as the game goes on.

So one time I was playing a game and my wizard (4th Edition Game, I also had the Staff of Defense Implement Mastery for added confusion) was the "Face" of the party and negotiating with a local lordling on the terms of their mission agreement. I asked for an estate in the city, free of charge, and "Personal Staff" to take care of the estate. He presumed that I meant a Wizard Implement Staff. I meant things like a butler, maid, cook, etc.

ShadowFireLance
2013-02-22, 07:44 PM
76) When One DM runs a Epic 3.5 Game, Epic Spellcasting should be banned, If not, Dm should be slapped by other, Non caster players.

Morph Bark
2013-02-22, 08:03 PM
41: Alway's expect a player to punch a npc. No, they don't need a reason. But if they DO have a good reason, no amount of traps, guards, anti magic fields, pitfalls, blackmail, inevitables or the fact that npc is a DRAGON, nothing will stop that player from falcon punching them. Yes, even if that player is a caster (especially if its a caster). Yes, even if it results in a TPK. And alway's expect them to ask to perform an unarmed attack with a touch spell or power while doing it. Or even try to provoke a bullrush. Extra points if fire is used in some way during the punch.

As a DM, I am especially aware of things in the same vein as this one. This largely has to do with the fact that the one campaign I was a player in, rather than DMing it, I played a monk/barbarian whose entire stick was JUSTICE and punching. Lots and lots of punching. In the end, she died from shattering the bones in her fist and bleeding out while at extremely low hp after rolling triple-1s against an enemy (the triple-1/triple-20 thing was used as a houserule that campaign).

Shoot Da Moon
2013-02-22, 08:38 PM
77) If you got a "freakshow" (party consists entirely of highly exotic races that are obscure, strange and elaborately powered) on your hands, the best approach is to simply have whatever plot and setting you have ignore it completely.

Have you ever spent the better part of an evening role playing a whole societies' worth of racist suspicion and disdain? It gets old, constantly detailing how children in the street are throwing dirt at them, the waiters spitting in their food, city watchmen searching their saddlebags with their polearms readied...

Skip the lengthy hassle, the threat of campaign derailment and the severe negativity your players will be subjected to.

Templarkommando
2013-02-22, 10:22 PM
78) Problems that can be solved with simple roleplay (i.e. can I borrow your shovel Farmer John) will end up involving law enforcement.

79) Problems that can be solved without destroying anything are at least 60% likely to involve the city's arson squad.

80) No PC can take a hint... ever. Attempts on the part of the DM saying things like "Go that way," or "Don't open that door" or "Maybe we should check for traps first" are completely futile and will likely make the situation more complicated. "The DM is just trying to get us to make a mistake" is a common meme here.

81) The PCs will roll a 35 or better on attempts to find and disarm simple traps. The complex save or die trap will not be disarmed nearly so easily.

82) Even in situations where the party is clearly outclassed by an enemy, the clear solution is to "inspire courage by charging blindly on."

83) NPCs that are meant to be trusted will be regarded with suspicion while shady NPCs will be trusted without reservation.

84) When you're trying to have a serious moment (i.e. heroic NPC death) All sorts of ridicule will ensue. This ridicule includes but is not limited to Monty Python references, internet memes, Star Wars quotes, etc.

85) Death will stalk the PCs at unexpected moments for both PCs and DMs (i.e. discovering that mind flayers automatically kill party members after a successful grapple attempt) and this will only be discovered when checking the rules to clarify a mechanic - not during dungeon creation.

86) PCs will surprise you occasionally with great depth. i.e. One PC's crime spree can turn into a defining moral moment for another PC. Be warned though, this can also result in PvP.

Jack of Spades
2013-02-23, 09:36 AM
87. Feel free to name your NPC's, but remember that all of them will be only be referred to as "guy with the beard" or "that chick who sells potions" or "that guy who we saw on the road," no matter how many times you refer to the NPC by name.

Alejandro
2013-02-23, 11:07 AM
88. Good cooking is your friend. Find someone in your group who can cook, and have everyone else give them a few bucks for the ingredients. This results in delicious and much cheaper food for the gaming session, and prevents 89:

89. A group of gamers will take longer to debate what kind of takeout or carryout to get, than they will planning how best to expose their PCs to lethal danger.

TempestLOB
2013-02-23, 12:02 PM
90. If you create a portal to hell, they will go through it. Even if it is clearly labeled and they have no reason to do so.

Razanir
2013-02-23, 01:43 PM
62. Build your BBEGs smarter, not tougher. Big nasty dragons are fairly standard and forgettable, but they'll always remember that evil Bard who has the city guard eating out of his hand when the party can't seem to get him arrested for anything.

62a) Bonus points if you manage to build them smarter AND tougher.

(I'm not planning to use homebrew to make a SAD gish built off Cha... That would be absurd)

Pesimismrocks
2013-02-23, 02:14 PM
91) If a PC is chaotic neutral, don't let them start doing whatever they want. Casting spells on the party for no reason isn't RP

92) In a town, fire-proof everything

ArcturusV
2013-02-23, 02:36 PM
91-a) If your players choose a ______ Neutral alignment, know what they really mean a vast majority of the time is ______ Evil, and that's how they are going to play it. Even down to the theory that all Evil characters are out to screw their party for no reason at all, or even the slightest hint of short term profit. "I'll give you 2 cp if you kill your team." "DONE! HEHEHEHEHEHE!"

91-b) Exceptions exist for games where Awful Stupid alignment has colored all other "Good" alignments, and thus players choose Neutral to avoid being told they have to play by Awful Stupid standards.

Jay R
2013-02-23, 03:13 PM
93. No matter what the character sheet say, there are only 3 PC alignments: Lawful Snotty, Neutral Greedy, and Chaotic Backstabbing.

Lonely Tylenol
2013-02-23, 07:01 PM
94. Your players will make you learn every single system, sub-system, spell, feat interaction, perk, trait, obscure skill use, and even alternative rule system in order to make their characters work exactly how they intend. Yes, this includes the grapple rules, no matter how convoluted they are. They will not learn these systems themselves. On more than one occasion, this will lead to the grappler asking which dice to roll, or the Duskblade learning Bard spells, or not knowing what the spells they know do.

Kaiisaxo
2013-02-23, 09:35 PM
95) Beware, if there is a slight chance the PCs will kill each other, they will kill each other.

95b) Specially if you somehow encouraged PVP

95c) Never, ever encourage PVP, not even for RP reasons

ArcturusV
2013-02-23, 09:40 PM
94-a) There will be at least one point in a session where you have to remind a player who has "Given up" against some impossible challenge that they purposefully asked you to learn a system/ability that their character has which easily bypasses it.

AttilaTheGeek
2013-02-23, 10:15 PM
50. If the monster is even vaguely female and humanoid, somebody will try to have sex with it. No exceptions.

This actually happened once. It was a dragon. The 26-CHA bard actually managed to seduce it, even after rolling a 1 on his Knowledge:Nature check...and then found out it was a male.

Sith_Happens
2013-02-23, 11:55 PM
This actually happened once. It was a dragon. The 26-CHA bard actually managed to seduce it, even after rolling a 1 on his Knowledge:Nature check...and then found out it was a male.

96) Female dragons in D&D 3.5 have a 100% conception rate. Make sure not to tell your players this in advance.

Fighter1000
2013-02-24, 04:26 AM
(97). Whenever your player characters are in a city, always expect them to cause a motherload of trouble for everyone just for the fun of it, usually beginning at the tavern.

(98). Always expect to have at least one player who doesn't rp at all, but at least participates in combat. But don't expect that player to pay any attention to what is actually happening in the combat when it isn't their turn.

(99). It is a good idea to have an NPC accompanying the PCs at all times. This way you can communicate to the players whenever you want, through that NPC. But make sure that NPC is at least somewhat knowledgeable and can hold their own in a fight, otherwise the players won't respect him or her at all. Oh, and make sure that NPC is a male character, otherwise that NPC will get cop and feeled by the most perverted and least-self-controlled member of the group.

hymer
2013-02-24, 04:29 AM
100: If you read all that, it's too late already.

SgtCarnage92
2013-02-24, 04:29 AM
96) Female dragons in D&D 3.5 have a 100% conception rate. Make sure not to tell your players this in advance.

Assuming you use BoEF...which...I think says that things with a 100% conception rate can pretty much choose whether or not they will be impregnated. Still, the players don't have to know that. :smallwink:

101) The players will spend hours checking for traps and enemies in an empty room, but will forget to do so as soon as a monster is about to ambush them. Use it to your advantage.

102) The players will have no respect for the dead, especially on the holy ground of the goddess of death.

103) There is always one player who complains that the system does not simulate real world combat and will make sure you know about it constantly.

104) If the healer takes minimal damage from an attack, he will heal himself first leaving his ally who is in the red to die horribly.

105) You will forget the attack of opportunity rules and the players will refuse to remind you of them until you accidentally provoke one.

106) If you stat it, they will try to kill it. No exceptions.

edit: Numbers were ninja'd

hymer
2013-02-24, 04:34 AM
Hey! That's six numbers too many! It's 100 Things, not 106! :smallwink:

GnomeFighter
2013-02-24, 04:42 AM
Hey! That's six numbers too many! It's 100 Things, not 106! :smallwink:

Only goes to prove:

107) no matter how low your expectations of your players they will do there best to disappoint you in new and interesting ways.

Jane_Smith
2013-02-24, 04:48 AM
I say we add a 0 to the title and keep going. >_>

Jack of Spades
2013-02-24, 08:02 AM
108. If your group uses PDFs, no-one's computer will even be turned on until the moment one of those PDFs is absolutely needed... Right in the middle of your big tense climactic moment you've been building up to all session.


(I tried and failed to make that last sentence sound like less of an innuendo... Oh well.)

Jane_Smith
2013-02-24, 08:08 AM
109: If a problem can't be solved with violence then your obviously overestimating your parties abilities and mindset and are giving them a impossible encounter. ALWAYS leave violence as a option, even if its not the best one, it will just save you a headache later.

110: If a race is suppose to be a specific alignment or unplayable due to its culture, the players will try to play it, and will argue till the end of time to play that race or come up with a backstory like "oh my drow wore a helm of opposite alignment" or "my ghoul was a monk in life and never got hunger pains even after death". When you approve, they will then feel odd about playing that type of character for some silly reason or another, and then argue about playing another uncommon race within 24 hours until you approve it as well. Also, its quicker to kick them out of the game and find another player who is fine with playing the base races then say no, this character won't fit, because they will simply rage/fume/plot ways to get there ideas threw by any means necessary and generally tantrum to make you feel guilty. :smallsigh:

Jack of Spades
2013-02-24, 08:29 AM
110: If a race is suppose to be a specific alignment or unplayable due to its culture, the players will try to play it, and will argue till the end of time to play that race or come up with a backstory like "oh my drow wore a helm of opposite alignment" or "my ghoul was a monk in life and never got hunger pains even after death". When you approve, they will then feel odd about playing that type of character for some silly reason or another, and then argue about playing another uncommon race within 24 hours until you approve it as well. Also, its quicker to kick them out of the game and find another player who is fine with playing the base races then say no, this character won't fit, because they will simply rage/fume/plot ways to get there ideas threw by any means necessary and generally tantrum to make you feel guilty. :smallsigh:
110a. If the race isn't common in the game, when the PCs meet that race they will expect them all to act and/or think like their explicitly-an-oddball party member. This will continue to be the expectation-- nay, the assumption-- no matter how many times normal members of the race are encountered.

111. It only takes ONE player who thinks he's a goddamn comedian to break immersion and tone for everybody in a serious game. That player will never get better, will never start playing seriously, and will never stop metagaming. Don't expect him to.I mean, seriously. I know funny in my bones, dude, I'm a lifelong comedy nerd. You're just screwing up my damn game and making it so that I can't run more than a one-off of anything because you won't take anything in the world seriously and won't make a character who's more than a single transparent, sloppily-executed joke trying to pass off as a part of the game.</rant>

Jane_Smith
2013-02-24, 09:03 AM
111a: This can be flipped around for great effect in the case of dreamspun sorcerers or characters with the dreamborn template or have a form of insanity suddenly spouting nonsense about d20 rolls and levels in classes and templates in the actual game world leaving all the npc's and players in character scratching there heads. Bonus points if the character is named Gary, and invents one of the most best selling popular board games in all the world's setting.

(My group has a dreamborn human dream-sorcerer/wizard illusionist that often has his character talk to the dm and other players ic/oocly hybrid, and leaves npcs and the other characters extremely confused at his apparently one sided conversations. Its hilarious.)

ArcturusV
2013-02-24, 02:09 PM
109-a) Or Fire.

EccentricCircle
2013-02-24, 04:54 PM
112) Contrary to popular belief: the grappling rules are actually fairly straight forward.

113) contrary to popular belief: Everybody expects the spanish inquisition.

huttj509
2013-02-24, 07:10 PM
112) Contrary to popular belief: the grappling rules are actually fairly straight forward.

113) contrary to popular belief: Everybody expects the spanish inquisition.

112a) Unless you're playing ADnD (and 2e actually simplified it from 1e).

FreakyCheeseMan
2013-02-24, 07:53 PM
93. No matter what the character sheet say, there are only 3 PC alignments: Lawful Snotty, Neutral Greedy, and Chaotic Backstabbing.

93-b: And Maniacally Laughing Evil.

Slipperychicken
2013-02-24, 10:38 PM
114. If you roleplay item-purchasing and selling, it will consume half the session. Especially if the PCs go to multiple different merchants to do it. Either the PCs will spend 30 minutes alternating between haggling and threats of violence to save a copper piece, or someone will try to steal something. Seriously, hand-wave it with a single roll. This will save you hours of gameplay.

Darthteej
2013-02-25, 12:26 AM
115) If you describe something for flavor purposes, it will immediately be assumed to be a trap or loot.

116) Traps and loot are the universally understood "pay attention" symbols to PCs.

117) Players will ALWAYS bring in physics, biology, chemistry, psychology, and even Magic-ology in order to contradict your point, ESPECIALLY if it will give them a perceived advantage.

118) The party monk, rogue, or sometimes psion is going to want to try some balls-to-the-wall crazy stunt in order to inflict damage. Consult 4th edition's advice on this, no matter what edition you're running.

Jack of Spades
2013-02-25, 12:47 AM
117) Players will ALWAYS bring in physics, biology, chemistry, psychology, and even Magic-ology in order to contradict your point, ESPECIALLY if it will give them a perceived advantage.

117a. This isn't a two-way street. If you try to use physics, biology, chemistry, psychology, magicology, or any other -ology, your players will never allow it unless you do it in a way explicitly allowed (and outlined) by the rules.

117b. Thus, it is best to homebrew and write down every nifty real-world idea you want to bring into the game. Written rules always seem more fair than "No, this is my table, and we're doing this."

Forrestfire
2013-02-25, 12:52 AM
117) Players will ALWAYS bring in physics, biology, chemistry, psychology, and even Magic-ology in order to contradict your point, ESPECIALLY if it will give them a perceived advantage.

117c) If players do bring in -logies into factor to contradict my point, I will counter with a reason why it works. Or with a suitably mysterious description of how it doesn't work like they expect it to. If this means that the BBEG has an extra wizard on his staff, or possesses a reality-warping artifact, so be it :smallamused:

Templarkommando
2013-02-25, 10:47 AM
119) Beware overly adventurous PCs - especially at lower levels. If you aren't careful a single ambitious character will try to sneak off to the dungeon before the rest of the party and solo the dungeon without help. The best way to stress the importance that D&D is a team game is to kill that PC or at the very least incapacitate him until the rest of the party can arrive.

a) failure to at least incapacitate the character will result in this single character eating up the rest of the session.

120) Try to make sure that people that you invite to your gaming table aren't enemies IRL. This can lead to a player kill in the first 15 minutes of game play after spending an hour and a half building characters.

121) At the most generous estimate, only two of your players have a good grasp of the rules. While not necessarily a bad thing, sometimes this means you need to give a few generous suggestions for what a character should do out of game.

122) At least one of your players is intent on abusing the rules as much as possible.

a) This can take the form of a player finding the most obscure rules and classes from various sources.

b) If you don't know the rules by heart, these obscure sources will include the PhB and DMG.

123) When a mechanic doesn't work the way the player thinks it does, it will be attributed to innocent ignorance.

124) When a mechanic doesn't work the way the DM thinks it does, it will be attributed to malice.

125) That mechanic that you don't fully understand but want to use anyway because "Hey, it looks like it could make for a cool encounter," will bog down the session for the next fifteen minutes while you try to justify it by looking up the source for it again.

a)This source will be forgotten unless written down. Expect to look through at least three rulebooks before finally remembering where you saw the mechanic.

b)writing down where the source is doesn't mean that you will find where it was written down any time soon.

126) Simple situations are unsolvable given the materials and manpower that the party has available.

127) Complex situations are solvable with chewing gum and a paper clip.

128) Anachronism is no excuse for your high fantasy setting party to be unable to fully operate an automatic rifle or even futuristic disruptors and phasors... at least according to them anyway.

129) That recurring villain wizard NPC that you start at low level, and you spent an hour and a half putting his spell list and everything together will die after one round when the ranger one-shot crits him for all of his hit points.

Kazyan
2013-02-25, 11:10 AM
130) It's very difficult to judge the difficulty of an encounter. Your "tough" battle will either be facerolled or kill half the party. Your straightforward tussle with the monster you picked semirandomly from MMIV could be the most memorable part of the campaign, or maybe it will be indistinguishable from an ogre after a day of fuzzy memory.

Mr Tumnus
2013-02-25, 11:34 AM
131) Make sure to write down all the exceptions or allowances you make for players. Several months down the road they WILL attempt to convince you that you made the exception.

Grendus
2013-02-25, 02:57 PM
62a) Bonus points if you manage to build them smarter AND tougher.

(I'm not planning to use homebrew to make a SAD gish built off Cha... That would be absurd)

You don't need homebrew. Sorcadin (of Tyranny/Slaughter) with PaO (or just two scrolls of the spell) gets you the physical stats of whatever creature you turn into and your primary casting stat as a bonus to all saves. SAD gish with everything worth worrying about based on charisma.

132) There will always be the one player who knows every rule and will remind you of them, even when you try to "forget" them to help another player.

AttilaTheGeek
2013-02-25, 04:06 PM
132) There will always be the one player who knows every rule and will remind you of them, even when you try to "forget" them to help another player.

132a) or when you give a house rule to avoid spending 20 minutes looking through the rules compendium.

132b) or three rounds after you gave a house rule to avoid spending 20 minutes looking through the rules compendium.

Karoht
2013-02-25, 04:26 PM
133: Beware of deceptive CR's.
Aboleth's played right against a CR appropriate party are very lethal.
Aboleth's played wrong are wimps against virtually any other party.

134: Stat Damage
Players will complain about stat damage. Period.
Did you have them pick up a wand of Lesser Restoration as loot?
Did they immediately sell it, therefore having only themselves to blame about the LONG walk back to town with a 6 strength and 6 con? Yeah, it will happen. Be absolutely certain to rub it in. Might as well, they will be ticked off at you either way.

EccentricCircle
2013-02-25, 04:50 PM
135: The most important thing to remember when running any game is that everyone should be having fun.

135a: This includes you!

Leecros
2013-02-25, 05:36 PM
96) Female dragons in D&D 3.5 have a 100% conception rate. Make sure not to tell your players this in advance.


Assuming you use BoEF...which...I think says that things with a 100% conception rate can pretty much choose whether or not they will be impregnated. Still, the players don't have to know that.

Actually, if you're using the BoEF, Dragons have an 80% conception chance with other dragons. When cross-species is done, you use the lowest conception chance %. The ones that have a 100% conception rate are Fey, Celestials, and Fiends all can choose whether or not there will be babies(if they both have 100% there's an opposed will save).

on this matter


136. Only introduce information in the BoEF if you feel your group is mature enough to handle it. Otherwise you'll run into immature jokes and giggles about it's content.

136B. It may be prudent to hide your use of the BoEF for the reasons listed above.


137. When players have an 8 Intelligence, they'll roleplay like they have a 3 Intelligence and be barely able to speak. If they have an 8 Strength, they'll roleplay like they have a 3 strength and be barely able to carry anything. If they have an 8 Cha, etc....etc.....etc....


edit:

138. Always make sure to double check the wording of a player's abilities if you feel the player's honesty is questionable. They may "forget" little parts of their abilities that make them less better than they are.

ShadowFireLance
2013-02-25, 05:52 PM
139) When roleplaying in a Long, Long running game, (For about 3 Years), With mature people, and you decide to let in BoEF, Never, Ever let the player with the Bard character get hold of it. :smallsigh:

Explanation:

So, In this one game, i've been running for a few years, one of my friends has a Well known bard character, now they all are ~22nd level, Being Epic, anyways, this plot of a game was a Red Dragon BBEB, that was attempting to hunt down all good Dragons in the world, and eat them.
So, I had been testing my group on matureity level, and...well, I thought they where pretty good, so, during a Bar Scene, The Bard was attempting to as useual, Seduce the Maid, So...:smallamused: *Cue evil smile* (At that point, my group lunged for their Shields, oOG) and I pulled out my BoEF.
I went through the rules, and had the bard go through the everything.
...It went fairly well...(The faces of the Paladin and Cleric where the best thing ever...)
Anyways, So He got the idea, He traveled (With Flame protection and whatnot) to the Red Dragon's Cave.
He rolled 3 Straight 20's to seduce, and Sex the Dragon...
Ooooo....My turn for deer in the headlights look.
So, She pretty much would not harm him, Cue me calling end for game for rewriteing script. :smallsigh:
Moral: Never, ever give the bard the BoEF.

AttilaTheGeek
2013-02-25, 08:44 PM
139) When roleplaying in a Long, Long running game, (For about 3 Years), With mature people, and you decide to let in BoEF, Never, Ever let the player with the Bard character get hold of it. :smallsigh:


This actually happened once. It was a dragon. The 26-CHA bard actually managed to seduce it, even after rolling a 1 on his Knowledge:Nature check...and then found out it was a male.

We don't even play 3.5!

139b) If a bard, anywhere, ever says the word "seduce", have the rogue stab him.

Slipperychicken
2013-02-25, 10:14 PM
He rolled 3 Straight 20's to seduce, and Sex the Dragon...

Should have had the questgiver shout "No, no, NO! I said slay the Dragon, not lay the Dragon!"

Jack of Spades
2013-02-25, 10:53 PM
132a) or when you give a house rule to avoid spending 20 minutes looking through the rules compendium.

132b) or three rounds after you gave a house rule to avoid spending 20 minutes looking through the rules compendium.

Heh.. Guilty.... :smallredface:

It's not my fault I get bored and read the weird sidebars in my RPG books!

But it is my fault that I don't pay enough attention during combat.. :smalltongue:

ShadowFireLance
2013-02-25, 11:36 PM
Should have had the questgiver shout "No, no, NO! I said slay the Dragon, not lay the Dragon!"

Funny thing, one of the players was a Elf Fighter/Mage Hybrid.
She came back with that picture, and smacked me.
(Friendly, But still)
I actually think i hurt myself laughing, then I showed it to the bard.
His face, I swear, That was the best part. :smallcool: I consider that a awesome part of my Dm'ing skillz.

Notreallyhere77
2013-02-27, 11:19 PM
140. Remember that, whatever your intended plot is, there should be D&D in every direction.

To clarify: If the PCs decide to join the orcs in raiding the elf village (for whatever convoluted reason), then that is what the campaign is now about. You do not provide the plot, the players do. You just provide the world and its reactions.

141. If you're playing in a world that you played in as a PC in another campaign, it's fine to bring in your old character, but only under the following conditions:
a) He or she must be accompanied by the rest of the party if possible/plausible.
b) He or she cannot have attained God-like power to spotlight hog the session. "He didn't stop adventuring." is no excuse for pausing the session for 15 minutes to describe him summoning a fiendish aquatic tarrasque to destroy the invasion fleet of a hostile nation you only introduced minutes before.

Yes, I had to sit through that, and, being a new player to the group, I had no idea who this guy was or why he was there. Turns out the DM wanted to feed his ego and pretend his character had gained epic level status. At least the other party members from that campaign made appearances, too (as similarly powerful characters), for continuity.

Jack of Spades
2013-02-28, 08:25 AM
140. Remember that, whatever your intended plot is, there should be D&D in every direction.
140a. Goes double if you're not playing DnD. A glowy barrier into DnD-land should be enough to discourage your L5R group from straying from your brilliant story! Muahaha! :belkar:

141. If you're playing in a world that you played in as a PC in another campaign, it's fine to bring in your old character, but only under the following conditions:
a) He or she must be accompanied by the rest of the party if possible/plausible.
b) He or she cannot have attained God-like power to spotlight hog the session. "He didn't stop adventuring." is no excuse for pausing the session for 15 minutes to describe him summoning a fiendish aquatic tarrasque to destroy the invasion fleet of a hostile nation you only introduced minutes before.

Yes, I had to sit through that, and, being a new player to the group, I had no idea who this guy was or why he was there. Turns out the DM wanted to feed his ego and pretend his character had gained epic level status. At least the other party members from that campaign made appearances, too (as similarly powerful characters), for continuity.
STORY TEIM
So, the group I was playing with had a single continuity for all of its WoD games, mostly with one GM, but occasionally ran by others in the group. One such offshoot was a Werewolf game in which the GM guy made a charisma-focused character named Gideon. Over that summer, we heard many a story at our other games of his propensity to make powerful NPCs like him so much that by the time the game fizzled out, there was simply no-one in the area who would be willing to kill or even attack Gideon without provocation (which was not forthcoming). This infuriated the GM of that particular campaign (we'll call her Amy), as nice guys like that are generally enough to kill plot as quickly as it appears. Also, enough for Gideon to gain boatloads of Renown and therefore power.

Fast forward to that winter, we were playing a survival-horror Mortals game where a prize would go to the main-game character of the player who lasted the longest. Long story short, my character and Amy's ended up in an SUV, driving through a blizzard, when I did not-quite-well-enough on a Drive roll and we get into an accident. And who should pop out of the other car but Gideon. It was priceless watching Amy struggle to keep her OOC urge to murder the man down, especially since Gideon was actually extremely helpful and ended up giving us the car he was driving to use for the night.

So, a day later our characters had settled on staying in town to wait out the storm. At that point, a knocking on the door and a tense conversation led to the revelation that the were-cat who had been stalking Amy's character had found us. Thinking quickly, we quietly contacted Gideon, who we knew was in the motel, and a fight broke out between the two of them. Unfortunately for Amy, the were-cat knew the "The Herd must not know" bit of the Oath of the Moon, and mentioned that Amy's character knew about the supernatural things going on in the area. After the fight, the police responded to the call of yells and animal noises coming from the motel and took Amy's character into protective custody against her will (she was playing a minor). And who should stroll into the holding cell wearing a stolen police uniform... But Gideon.

DigoDragon
2013-02-28, 08:47 AM
142. Always mind the little extra details such as using a battle mat, drawing player handouts, and music to accent the mood you want to convey. A little bit can go a long way toward immersing your players into the campaign.

Sith_Happens
2013-02-28, 09:03 AM
Actually, if you're using the BoEF, Dragons have an 80% conception chance with other dragons. When cross-species is done, you use the lowest conception chance %. The ones that have a 100% conception rate are Fey, Celestials, and Fiends all can choose whether or not there will be babies(if they both have 100% there's an opposed will save).

I'm referring to a passage from the Draconomicon, actually:


Ovulation begins with mating, and a female dragon can produce eggs much less often, if she wishes, simply by not mating.

Either that's supposed to mean that dragons always get pregnant, or it's trying to subtly imply that dragons don't believe in contraceptives. Or both.

GigaGuess
2013-03-22, 05:24 PM
143.) Players have the mentality of moths and/or magpies. If something is flashing and gloing their reactions are invariably to watch in stunned silence, if not to try and carry it off themselves.

Man on Fire
2013-03-22, 07:26 PM
130) It's very difficult to judge the difficulty of an encounter. Your "tough" battle will either be facerolled or kill half the party. Your straightforward tussle with the monster you picked semirandomly from MMIV could be the most memorable part of the campaign, or maybe it will be indistinguishable from an ogre after a day of fuzzy memory.

130a) For that reason you will pull a hour from your time and test bos battles before the game. unless you are into Dark Destroyer of Worlds being beaten in three rounds.

144) You will have copies of character sheets.

SowZ
2013-03-23, 11:57 PM
130) It's very difficult to judge the difficulty of an encounter. Your "tough" battle will either be facerolled or kill half the party. Your straightforward tussle with the monster you picked semirandomly from MMIV could be the most memorable part of the campaign, or maybe it will be indistinguishable from an ogre after a day of fuzzy memory.

Did a six month long campaign once. The deadliest battle was a random encounter against a CR appropriate plant/fungus thing. They ran away after doing very little damage and almost all dying. I was sure half the party was done for. I'm known for being a bit of a killer DM, so they assumed I was being super mean, but I really intended this to be a normal fight.

Note: In this game, the party took on CR+8, (admittedly unoptimized enemies but still,) encounters with some regularity and won. THIS thing, though... I am sure the same players would run in fear if this thing ever popped again. Even over a year later.

Ekul
2013-03-26, 01:40 PM
145. Especially in sandbox campaigns, self-made Random encounter tables can be great. Just make sure you weight them correctly, and don't have the bottom 10% all filled with different unlikely scenarios. I once had a DM who would end up having us run into a "rare" event almost every other time, and I suspected the above to have at least contributed, since it happened to me. The most memorable time I have used Random Encounter Tables is when I did a nautical campaign.

146. Give your players a good reason to stick together. One time I started a campaign with one player being surrounded with skeletons. Then the other player came in and pulled some from him- however, he was overwhelmed and the skeletons started to drag him away. I expected my other player to save him, but nope. Said he "My character doesn't know him, nor does he know whether the other guy's dead. Why would I risk my life for him?". I started to protest, but then I realized that the character was just treating the guy he left for dead as he would an NPC. The other player was... not pleased. But it wasn't the first time his character got killed before he even introduced himself

Velaryon
2013-03-26, 05:58 PM
4. Trust me. There is nothing for predicting which NPCs the party will latch onto and love and which they will despise. It is totally arbitrary. You can spend half an hour on a backstory and personality, giving an NPC personality and clever retorts. Whenever he recurs? They'll say, "Oh, that guy, again..." But you introduce a guide you expect to have four lines and you even think he is a little annoying and the party will adopt him as a pet/mascot.

This is true in my experience. In my most recent campaign, the party inexplicably took a liking to another party of NPCs I designed as a one-off encounter for them (I only gave them names to help differentiate their character sheets for my own use). The party warlock ended up marrying one of the NPCs. :smallcool:


147. Whenever someone comes up with a ridiculous and convoluted plan, possibly involving the mixture of magic and real-world science, it's usually the player with the least intelligent character.

SowZ
2013-03-26, 11:19 PM
This is true in my experience. In my most recent campaign, the party inexplicably took a liking to another party of NPCs I designed as a one-off encounter for them (I only gave them names to help differentiate their character sheets for my own use). The party warlock ended up marrying one of the NPCs. :smallcool:


147. Whenever someone comes up with a ridiculous and convoluted plan, possibly involving the mixture of magic and real-world science, it's usually the player with the least intelligent character.

147b. These plans typically require you ignore that physics isn't taken into account for the first half of the plan, instead relying strictly on RAW, then accept the laws of physics for the last half of the plan, ignoring RAW. (Perfect example: Commoner Railgun.)

Souju
2013-03-27, 04:00 PM
148) If the random encounter tables turn up something specifically designed to murder your party (like a Pathfinder Lurker Above against a party of rogues in a narrow corridor), it is your fault.
149) If the random encounter table turns up something ridiculously easy that gives middling exp but takes an hour to kill (such as 24 kobolds that can't even hit the party unless they roll 20s), it is your fault.
150) A balanced party is an illusion. Even if your group consists of 6 people, you will always be missing a primary spellcaster, tank, rogue, or healer.
150a) If you DO end up with a balanced party, someone will die soon. Usually the tank or healer.
150b) The unbalanced party will have an unbelievable success rate. Even if the party is 3 rogues and a halfling monk. Even if said party fights the enemy from #148.

Bucky
2013-03-27, 04:11 PM
151) It is okay to fudge results on random encounter tables. Dice may not even be necessary; just look for the best encounter on the table.

gooddragon1
2013-03-27, 05:49 PM
7. no matter how obvious the clue is, don't ever expect the Players to pick up on it, include at least 3 clues per plot point.

8. this goes double for puzzles in dungeons

9. this goes triple for riddles

O god please. Please let this catch on. Just tell me the plot point. No clues. Just freaking tell me. I hate investigation games.

Slipperychicken
2013-03-27, 06:06 PM
O god please. Please let this catch on. Just tell me the plot point. No clues. Just freaking tell me. I hate investigation games.

Agreed. Even if you just give a Knowledge/Sense Motive/Track/Gather Information check to discern the plot point, that's better.

It saves a lot of time which would otherwise be spent on "Do you know anything about X? No? Kthnxbai".

SimonMoon6
2013-03-27, 07:19 PM
145. Especially in sandbox campaigns, self-made Random encounter tables can be great. Just make sure you weight them correctly, and don't have the bottom 10% all filled with different unlikely scenarios.

I remember once in a superhero campaign using the GM's homebrew rules set, the GM had a random encounter table. So, one of the heroes-- who was a non-powered (or mostly so) hero along the lines of Batman or Daredevil-- goes out patrolling the city. The GM rolls the dice.

"You encounter... a tornado!"

The player's response: "I go home."

Prince_Ornstein
2013-03-27, 07:20 PM
152) if your party has a swashbuckler in it please be prepared....
that PC, no matter alignment, is going to RP just like Jack Sparrow...
End of story..no save

Velaryon
2013-03-28, 12:46 AM
147b. These plans typically require you ignore that physics isn't taken into account for the first half of the plan, instead relying strictly on RAW, then accept the laws of physics for the last half of the plan, ignoring RAW. (Perfect example: Commoner Railgun.)

147c. I forgot to mention, whenever a player tries to involve real-world science in their plan, it's inevitably something that their character would have no way of understanding.

153. Whenever the entire group fails a Spot or Listen check, they will invariably try to make checks with their familiars, animal companions, or any other nearby creature with a set of eyes and/or ears.

John Campbell
2013-03-28, 04:36 AM
45) Never expect spellcasters to have any idea about how magic works or what his/her spells actually do w/o spending a minimum of 15 minutes with his/her nose in a rule book every time they cast a spell.
45a) Alternately, the spellcaster will have clear and precise ideas about how magic works and exactly what each of his/her spells actually do. These ideas will be wrong.


(98). Always expect to have at least one player who doesn't rp at all, but at least participates in combat. But don't expect that player to pay any attention to what is actually happening in the combat when it isn't their turn.
98a) This player will probably play the cleric.

98b) When the tank gets killed after soaking three massive-damage shots in as many rounds and not receiving any healing because the cleric "didn't realize they'd taken damage", just leave the room. If you didn't witness the murder, they can't make you testify about it.


(99). It is a good idea to have an NPC accompanying the PCs at all times.
99a) No, really, it isn't.

99b) If the party repeatedly hangs your DMPC out to dry, jokes about killing your DMPC, or actively attempts to kill your DMPC, they are trying to send you a message. The message is that they aren't joking.


136. Only introduce information in the BoEF if you feel your group is mature enough to handle it. Otherwise you'll run into immature jokes and giggles about it's content.
136a) If your group wants to use the BoEF, your group is not mature enough to handle the BoEF.

Lorsa
2013-03-28, 08:06 AM
1153. Whenever the entire group fails a Spot or Listen check, they will invariably try to make checks with their familiars, animal companions, or any other nearby creature with a set of eyes and/or ears.

Darn it Whisper!

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0143.html

Man on Fire
2013-03-28, 05:22 PM
146. Give your players a good reason to stick together.

146a) No matter how good reason you'll give them, at least one guy will still find it insufficient.
I started my campaign with somebody taking control over the party and forcing them to commit murder and steal strange object. I thought they will join forces to see who did it to them. Party Gunslinger's player told me pretty simply he sees no reason to work with them. "Somebody took control over your bodyand mind and used you liek a tool, don't you want to get them?" I aked. he aid "Hey, they made me kill some guy. I like killing. What's the problem here?"

154) Don't trust giant in the playground about threat evel of npcs.
Sorry guys, but twice in a row I asked for an advice. First was when I asked for help designing two vampire to fight the party of 6 4-level players. You told me that vampires are too much of a threat for somebody at this levelso I removed most of their special abilities and keept only ability score increases.
What was supposed to be recurring enemy through the game got ripped apart in two rounds without doing a single digit of damage. Rogue, who people told me would feel damn useless, managed to take half of one vampire's hp in one round by himself.

154a) When GitP says a single CR appriorate meele character cannot take on a party of three 5-th level wizards and bard alone and be any sort of challenge, they mean if the meele character will loudly charge at them from the other end of corridor it takes three rounds to run through on charge, so wizards can prepare.
I 5-th elvel ranger dropped from the roof on them, they basically got two full rounds before he attaced any of them, because he focused on summoned creature in his first round. In second roudn he attacked one of stronger wizards. Wizard survived only by DM fiat.

Prince_Ornstein
2013-03-28, 05:36 PM
155) when you as DM describes that blue fire erupts from the ground in the middle of the woods each night at mid-night, expect your players to drop everything they are doing that is essential to the main plot and go watch the fire in the woods, even if it has nothing to do with furthering along the current quest.

155-A) also expect the same PC's to stand around for several days (in game time) doing absolutely nothing but waiting for the fire to come again and for something different to happen that did not happen the night before, and if something does not change the party will blame you for making them go there.

Sith_Happens
2013-03-28, 06:33 PM
154a) When GitP says a single CR appriorate meele character cannot take on a party of three 5-th level wizards and bard alone and be any sort of challenge, they mean if the meele character will loudly charge at them from the other end of corridor it takes three rounds to run through on charge, so wizards can prepare.
I 5-th elvel ranger dropped from the roof on them, they basically got two full rounds before he attaced any of them, because he focused on summoned creature in his first round. In second roudn he attacked one of stronger wizards. Wizard survived only by DM fiat.

Well, unless told otherwise, most posters assume that your players aren't going to be complete idiots. I mean what, did the wizards just stand in near-melee range and twiddle their thumbs for two rounds?

Man on Fire
2013-03-28, 06:35 PM
Well, unless told otherwise, most posters assume that your players aren't going to be complete idiots. I mean what, did the wizards just stand in near-melee range and twiddle their thumbs for two rounds?

No, they were throwing offensive spells at him. Ranger made every save there was to make. It was only after DM fiat they blinded him.
And, to make it funnier, I actually tested this fight beforehand and ranger didn't lasted long. The difference was he didn't got an opportunity to attack any of the PCs and fought Druid's Animal companion (I know I said wizards but it's actually Wizard, Witch and Druid, but wizards sounds simpler than Tier 1s). Here he did and at instant I have dying character.

Slipperychicken
2013-03-28, 06:41 PM
154a) When GitP says a single CR appriorate meele character cannot take on a party of three 5-th level wizards and bard alone and be any sort of challenge, they mean if the meele character will loudly charge at them from the other end of corridor it takes three rounds to run through on charge, so wizards can prepare.
I 5-th elvel ranger dropped from the roof on them, they basically got two full rounds before he attaced any of them, because he focused on summoned creature in his first round. In second roudn he attacked one of stronger wizards. Wizard survived only by DM fiat.

GitP usually means optimized, well-played spellcasters with decent spell selections and builds, whose players treat LogicNinja's guide as their bible. Someone should have at least had him pinned with Web by round 1.

Sith_Happens
2013-03-28, 10:11 PM
No, they were throwing offensive spells at him. Ranger made every save there was to make. It was only after DM fiat they blinded him.
And, to make it funnier, I actually tested this fight beforehand and ranger didn't lasted long.

So basically, you used what you made sure shouldn't have been a very tough fight, except that the dice were all like "lolnope, somebody dies tonight." I suppose that happens sometimes.

VeisuItaTyhjyys
2013-03-28, 10:55 PM
156) Be wary of using puzzles/riddles/traps/encounters that require some level of outside knowledge. Not everyone at the table is into physics, chess problems, cryptography, formal logic puzzles, or whatever other puzzle-base you think is really cool. In fact, it's very possible that no-one at the table is. I've been on both ends of this, and it's pretty much equally frustrating for the DM and the players.

157) Similarly, try and find a balance between a player's intelligence and a character's intelligence when it comes to whatever puzzles you may include. On the one hand, a stupid character shouldn't figure out every puzzle with ease because the player happens to be really clever; on the other hand, it's no fun to have to sit on your hands for half an hour when you know the solution to a puzzle because your character dumped Int. The stupid character shouldn't solve every puzzle every time, but it's not like a -1 to Int means the character is literally incapable of reasoning and can never solve anything.

Esprit15
2013-03-28, 11:19 PM
158) In any Social Moral/Lawful Good/etc. party, there will be one obligatory Chaotic Neutral/Evil PC who insists that the guards must be stabbed to death, rather than simply incapacitated. They will also make sure that the most collateral damage happens in any event, regardless of whether collateral damage even has a reasonable chance of happening. They may also try to stab anything that approaches them too quickly.

159) Someone will misunderstand Lawful Good to be "I am the law." Similarly, someone will take Chaotic Neutral to mean "Bat guano insane." Furthermore, all forms of evil will involve plans to either kill/loot the party, kill as many NPCs as possible, become a god, or some combination thereof.

160) If you stat something to scare the crap out of your party, always be ready for it to be rendered harmless.

Jay R
2013-03-29, 05:40 PM
159) Similarly, someone will take Chaotic Neutral to mean "Bat guano insane."

159a. A good DM knows that this is a false notion. In fact, "Bat guano insane" isn't synonymous with "Chaotic Neutral". It's synonymous with "Adventurer".

GreatWyrmGold
2013-03-29, 08:07 PM
by the sounds of it, you forced them into the arena where the op just offered it as a side thought.
Which summarizes the following issue:

52. Do not try to predict the PC's actions.
52a. If you think you can (or can) accurately predict the PC's actions, don't tell them.
52b. If you do tell them, don't be surprised when the next building full of defenseless people is firebombed.
...Shouldn't this have been #1? Or at least #2...maybe the following shoulda been #1:

161. Expect that one guy to be an idiot and risk ruining everything if given half a chance. Even if you told them why it would do so at the beginning of the session and the other players are warning him against it. Deal with stupidity.

-----

162. Players killing each other is to be prevented at all costs. Characters is a bit better, and less evitable, but try to smooth things over. Still, no matter what happens, prepare for character combat at the least excuse...just in case.

Laserlight
2013-03-29, 08:09 PM
163) If you put in a big red button marked "Do Not Push, Under Any Circumstances Whatsoever", you won't have time to finish saying "whatsoever" before someone has pushed it.

163a) if, after they've announced their intent to push it, you tell them that it will destroy the dungeon, town, continent, world, etc, and ask if they really want to do that, be prepared for them to answer "Yes, I push it again!"

Slipperychicken
2013-03-29, 11:29 PM
163) If you put in a big red button marked "Do Not Push, Under Any Circumstances Whatsoever", you won't have time to finish saying "whatsoever" before someone has pushed it.

163a) if, after they've announced their intent to push it, you tell them that it will destroy the dungeon, town, continent, world, etc, and ask if they really want to do that, be prepared for them to answer "Yes, I push it again!"

When the two seem mutually incompatible, it is a player's duty to take the awesome choice over the smart one. Also, this is relevant;

http://www.volacci.com/files/imce-uploads/dont-push-button_0.jpg

puctheplayfull
2013-03-30, 01:33 PM
164) The key to having a recurring villain is the exit strategy. As previously stated, you can expect most plans to fall apart after initial contact with the players, but if you want a villain they will love to hate, he has to be able to constantly avoid death at the hands of the PC's or the law.

At lower levels, this can be as easy as sneaking through a collapsible tunnel while the PC's deal with the last line of minions. At higher levels, contingency spells, and misc magic items can allow for more elaborate and complicated routes of escape especially while in the middle of combat.

SgtCarnage92
2013-03-30, 02:06 PM
165. A player will always use the "evil-is-relative" argument when trying to justify a particular out of alignment action. While this can bring up interesting discussions on morality, it can also bog down the game and waste valuable time that would be spent getting stuff done.

166. You will always start later than you intend. Plan on getting everyone together at least an hour before you intend to actually start playing.

167. Plan your bio-breaks according to lapses in dramatic tension. You don't want someone getting up to use the can when you're delivering a major plot point.

168. If you're intending to run a game in an established universe such as Star Wars, make sure you are clear about whether you are playing an alt-verse game or one that takes place parallel to the established canon. This can relieve so many headaches.

169. If playing in an established universe, take the time to understand the feel of that universe when designing adventures. It will go a long way to bring people into game when you know what makes that universe cool.

170. When running a game in an established universe, there will always be a player who knows the lore better than you and will correct you pretty frequently on mistakes you make. Use this player as a resource between games and you'll be amazed how much better your games will go.

Man on Fire
2013-03-30, 03:27 PM
171. When running game in estabilished universe, if bring the famous NPCs somebody wil ltry to kill them

172. If it has stats, they will try to kill it.
172a. Even if it doesn't have stats, they will try.
172a.1 And if that doesn't work, they will at least try to flip it.

Echobeats
2013-03-31, 04:12 AM
147. Whenever someone comes up with a ridiculous and convoluted plan, possibly involving the mixture of magic and real-world science, it's usually the player with the least intelligent character.


147b. These plans typically require you ignore that physics isn't taken into account for the first half of the plan, instead relying strictly on RAW, then accept the laws of physics for the last half of the plan, ignoring RAW. (Perfect example: Commoner Railgun.)


147c. I forgot to mention, whenever a player tries to involve real-world science in their plan, it's inevitably something that their character would have no way of understanding.

I can relate to this one. I played a D&D 4E campaign in the Eberron setting. Our elemental-powered airship took damage and was losing altitude. We had a skill challenge to get it to stay in the air long enough to reach the city. Our Rogue's solution (whose lowest ability scores, naturally, were Int and Wis)? Build a jet engine. On the fly. With whatever he found to hand.

It actually sort of worked, though.

This is the same Rogue who decided, after we had defeated an Aberrant Kraken, to rip its heart out and take a bite. He got very sick.

Sith_Happens
2013-03-31, 04:35 AM
I can relate to this one. I played a D&D 4E campaign in the Eberron setting. Our elemental-powered airship took damage and was losing altitude. We had a skill challenge to get it to stay in the air long enough to reach the city. Our Rogue's solution (whose lowest ability scores, naturally, were Int and Wis)? Build a jet engine. On the fly. With whatever he found to hand.

This does make a weird kind of sense. I mean, who do you think is going to propose solving a relatively straight-forward problem by building a device the very idea of which is preposterous within the setting, the smart guy or the dumb guy? It's just a lucky happenstance that his design worked.:smallwink:

Slipperychicken
2013-03-31, 09:31 AM
This does make a weird kind of sense. I mean, who do you think is going to propose solving a relatively straight-forward problem by building a device the very idea of which is preposterous within the setting, the smart guy or the dumb guy? It's just a lucky happenstance the DM's generosity and unwillingness to TPK that his design worked.:smallwink:

Fixed that for you.

Fibinachi
2013-03-31, 05:29 PM
172: The PC's do not know what your original plan was.


172-A: Your original plan is now changed.

173: The phrase "Yes, but as you..." beats "No, that won't work because..."

174: Relax.

175: People care about satisfying payoffs to events more than the actual events themselves. A walk down a corridor can be an amazing experience. Don't worry overmuch about originality, setting, gimmick or plot. The question is not "Which clever thing will make this stand out?" the question is "How will this be cool, what would be a neat thing?"

176: Events are set in stone inthusfar only as they are perceived by the players.
The plot, the plan and the future exists in a state of variable propensity until witnessed.

177: Always have a back up mercenary, bounty hunter or assassin for those sudden "Damn, that slipped up" moments.

178: The phrase "Alternate universe where this is the case, though" will quickly become your best friend when playing in any commonly popular setting.

179: Mobility is the single greatest way of making clear differences in power. Raising mountains and throwing fireballs or crushing castles make for great set pieces, but the villain who can teleport to the other side of the continent while the heroes must slog it through the Ten Thousand Mile Swamp of Soggy Socks, Stale Bread and Damp Feet is the villain that showcases true power - that of freedom.

180: Direct lethality is the easy option. Killing a PC is as simple as a phrase. Maim them instead. Let them lose legs, burn their house, scar their flesh, cut of their limbs, strike out their souls, imprison their friends, cut of their fingers, cripple their skills, reduce their stats, curse them with the watchful eyes of an evil god, gradually transform them into horrible mockeries of nature, subvert their alignment, crush their minds, take away their memories of their first kiss...

The ogre doesn't roll a natural 20 and hits you for 200 damage. The ogre rolled a natural 20, hits for 10, and breaks your kneecap. Lose 4 Dexterity and 15 ft movement speed until someone can fix you up.

181: Keep the game going. Not by cho-chooing the players along (if they're idling, you're all still playing). Keep the game going by judgement that lead to things instead of judgement that shut of avenues of thought.

Fable Wright
2013-03-31, 06:22 PM
172a. Even if it doesn't have stats, they will try.
172a.1 And if that doesn't work, they will at least try to flip it.

Poor, clueless berks. Send them through Sigil for a bit, and see how long that lasts.
http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1337/36/1337366744561.jpg

Water_Bear
2013-03-31, 06:35 PM
Poor, clueless berks. Send them through Sigil for a bit, and see how long that lasts.

It's a-Maze-ing how eager people are to mess with her though. Introducing the Lady of Pain into a game is as likely to cause a TPK as giving them a Deck of Many Things.

Also a bit surprised the censor lets berk through but not *******.

Velaryon
2013-03-31, 07:08 PM
164) The key to having a recurring villain is the exit strategy. As previously stated, you can expect most plans to fall apart after initial contact with the players, but if you want a villain they will love to hate, he has to be able to constantly avoid death at the hands of the PC's or the law.

At lower levels, this can be as easy as sneaking through a collapsible tunnel while the PC's deal with the last line of minions. At higher levels, contingency spells, and misc magic items can allow for more elaborate and complicated routes of escape especially while in the middle of combat.

164a. Every once in awhile however, no matter how many contingencies and exit strategies you have set up for the villain, events will somehow conspire that the villain just cannot get away unless you blatantly fudge things to let them escape.

Sith_Happens
2013-03-31, 08:14 PM
164a. Every once in awhile however, no matter how many contingencies and exit strategies you have set up for the villain, events will somehow conspire that the villain just cannot get away unless you blatantly fudge things to let them escape.

164a.I. If you blatantly fudge things to let them escape, your players will most likely never forgive you for it.

Vknight
2013-03-31, 08:30 PM
164a.I. If you blatantly fudge things to let them escape, your players will most likely never forgive you for it.

164.a.II. If they are smart enough to figure out you fudged it


182: Players have an amazing capacity for both intelligence and ignorance at once.
183: If a player continually gets the city guards to come after them no matter what if wanted posters start showing up its because your picking on that player.

Darthteej
2013-03-31, 10:52 PM
170. When running a game in an established universe, there will always be a player who knows the lore better than you and will correct you pretty frequently on mistakes you make. Use this player as a resource between games and you'll be amazed how much better your games will go.

184. As a corollary to rule 170, there is always one player who knows the rules better than you do, and will likewise attempt to correct you. They are likewise an extremely valuable resource, and cooperation between Rules Lawyers and you should be actively encouraged.

184a) The terms of the Rules Laywer/DM agreement are as follows-the DM must agree to trust the Rules Lawyer's word, and the Rules Lawyer should knowledge Rule 0. In order to encourage the speeding of the game along, the DM should bow to the Rules Lawyer's word in the course of normal play, while Rule 0 should be used as an override for important events. If there is a disagreement between rulings, the DM and Rules Lawyer should sort it outside of the context of play.

SgtCarnage92
2013-04-01, 03:16 AM
185) There will be a more experienced GM than you as a player at one time or another. There is a lot to be said about finding a personal style as a GM, but that doesn't negate the value of experience and advice this person can give. Ask them how they would have done things differently and for what reason. You may not agree with them, but it's worth keeping in mind.

186) Much confusion will be had if the kind of game you want to run and the game your players want to play are not the same. Make sure everyone is on the same page before any dice are rolled. Make compromises to make sure everyone is likely to be having a good time.

187) There will be a power gamer who refuses to pull back for the sake of either your own abilities as a GM or the optimization of the other players. They will use excuses such as, "I want my character to be effective," and accuse you of punishing them for doing well.

188) New players are often the most enthusiastic but can slow down a game due to not knowing the system yet. However, they often don't restrict themselves to what the rules say and can actually bring a new level of creativity to the party. New blood can bring life back into a stale game.

189) As soon as combat devolves into dice rolls and people just saying numbers it's time to change something. Moving away from straight up fights in combat and using special combat maneuvers, stealth, magic, and creative environments (that the monsters actually interact with) to keep your players on their toes will improve your game. The straight up fight should be a reward for a job well done.

190) Your players will come up with strategies that you are never prepared for. Learn them and use them against them in the future.

191) There is no such thing as a perfect build. The sooner you realize this as a GM, the sooner power players will become less of a hassle. Know your players builds and why they function as well as they do. Use them to inspire your own. All else fails counter a build with a nearly identical one and see how they overcome the challenge.

192) You will have a player quit the game because of something you did as a GM. Take time to understand why they left and make sure you keep it in mind for the future. Don't take it personally, sometimes GM and player styles don't mesh as well as you'd hoped.

193) Remember that you're not trying to beat your players, but trying to challenge them. Don't slip to far into the trap of trying to counter everything your players do. This wastes time during play and preparation and makes the game much less fun for everyone.

Man on Fire
2013-04-01, 06:37 AM
Poor, clueless berks. Send them through Sigil for a bit, and see how long that lasts.
http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1337/36/1337366744561.jpg

I see I'm not the only fan of Counter Monkey here.

194) When you have problem player, talk to him outside the game and explain what the problem is first. Only if he won't change hsi behavior, punish him in-game.

195) If player made somethign special for his character, invested time and resources in it, he probably doesn't want it to be torn apart in front of him. If a guy spend his money from a wagon and described in lot of detail what is in that thing down to the color of the carpet, he probably doesn't want it to be stolen from him during the first game.

Feddlefew
2013-04-01, 06:46 AM
186- Any large, ancient buildings must be magic resistant to survive contact with the PCs.
187- Always have some backup dungeon and dungeon sections to use in case the PCs end up somewhere they're not supposed too.

Man on Fire
2013-04-01, 07:55 AM
198) If your player gave his character any sort of family, they haven't done it so you can murder them at first opportunity. It's tired and cliched and only make people pissed. Find another way to use that family.

199) Force your players to have homes or just plain give them some. It alone saves your guys from being murderhobos

200) Hit the PCs where it hurts, use what they provided both in chrunch and fluff as a source of drama. But don't overdo it. If your superhero PC has granny who disproves of superheroes, having her walk into her granddaughter putting on the costume may be enough, you don't need her to die from heart attack after withnessing how some bastard beats her granddaughter, rips her mask off and throw at her (http://gamingoutpost.com/article/hit_em_where_it_hurts/).

Lvl45DM!
2013-04-01, 08:39 AM
198) If your player gave his character any sort of family, they haven't done it so you can murder them at first opportunity. It's tired and cliched and only make people pissed. Find another way to use that family.

199) Force your players to have homes or just plain give them some. It alone saves your guys from being murderhobos

200) Hit the PCs where it hurts, use what they provided both in chrunch and fluff as a source of drama. But don't overdo it. If your superhero PC has granny who disproves of superheroes, having her walk into her granddaughter putting on the costume may be enough, you don't need her to die from heart attack after withnessing how some bastard beats her granddaughter, rips her mask off and throw at her (http://gamingoutpost.com/article/hit_em_where_it_hurts/).

201) The best recurring villains aren't the strongest. They are the ones who offend the PC's in some personal way. My favourite strategy is have a rival thief pickpocket the party's thief and leave a taunting message. You don't have to take much, because you've taken their pride. Get a caster to counter their casters, drawing them into a personalized duel, and then run away just when they are about to win. Have a superior combatant disarm your fighters and sneer at their incompetence before swaggering off. Your players will hate them, and thoroughly enjoy doing so.

GigaGuess
2013-04-01, 10:28 AM
202.) Inspiration will strike in funny ways. For example, a one-off character you create just serve a simple purpose might become a favorite, recurring character. An offhand reference might inspire a campaighn all on it's own. A meaningless thug might evolve into a party's arch-nemesis. Always be receptive to how the narrative flows.

GreatWyrmGold
2013-04-01, 09:50 PM
183: If a player continually gets the city guards to come after them no matter what if wanted posters start showing up its because your picking on that player.

183a. It's even more your fault if a player's characters have a much higher death rate due to party action.


184. As a corollary to rule 170, there is always one player who knows the rules better than you do, and will likewise attempt to correct you. They are likewise an extremely valuable resource, and cooperation between Rules Lawyers and you should be actively encouraged.

184a) The terms of the Rules Laywer/DM agreement are as follows-the DM must agree to trust the Rules Lawyer's word, and the Rules Lawyer should knowledge Rule 0. In order to encourage the speeding of the game along, the DM should bow to the Rules Lawyer's word in the course of normal play, while Rule 0 should be used as an override for important events. If there is a disagreement between rulings, the DM and Rules Lawyer should sort it outside of the context of play.
184b. And if this works, pack up your parka before going to Baator and enjoying some flying bacon.

203. On second thought, 184b applies to any efforts you make.

204. Improvise, improvise, improvise. No matter how much you plan, players will find a path you didn't think of. Especially if they've done either once and saw how unprepared you were.

Lupus753
2013-04-01, 09:54 PM
205. Players will check the ceiling before they even think to look at the floor.

If this is covered by earlier items, I apologize.

GigaGuess
2013-04-01, 11:26 PM
205. Players will check the ceiling before they even think to look at the floor.

If this is covered by earlier items, I apologize.

Really? I find the opposite. If I wanna hide something well, I put it on the ceiling. It takes ages to find.

Phippster
2013-04-01, 11:42 PM
206. A PC is smart. Parties are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.

207. Some players will absolutely love to listen to your narratives, and enjoy the sense of verisimilitude that creating fleshed out towns, groups and NPCs entails. Others will grow tired of not stabbing things, and it's always more fun to stab something with a name, anyway.

208. A party will never actually agree on who's leading it, even if the Paladin has a Charisma of 14 and everyone else is scraping the negatives. While having roleplay trump rollplay is nice, the Wizard with an 8 CHA isn't really being roleplayed effectively to the concept if he's charming people into doing his bidding.

208b. Unless, of course, the Wizard is literally charming them into doing his bidding.

Sith_Happens
2013-04-02, 12:07 AM
206. A PC is smart. Parties are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.

As someone attempting to be his current party's voice of reason, I can sympathize heartily with this one.:smallsigh:

Phippster
2013-04-02, 12:30 AM
As someone attempting to be his current party's voice of reason, I can sympathize heartily with this one.:smallsigh:

I tried doing that once in Saga Edition. It was a PvP campaign (terrible idea, obviously). We had to negotiate with a number of Imperials working for the other party. Because I was somehow the ONLY person halfway decent at this, it was my job to not get us all beaten to death and touted in front of Vader's personal hit crew.

I was a Mandalorian.

Sith_Happens
2013-04-02, 12:57 PM
I tried doing that once in Saga Edition. It was a PvP campaign (terrible idea, obviously). We had to negotiate with a number of Imperials working for the other party. Because I was somehow the ONLY person halfway decent at this, it was my job to not get us all beaten to death and touted in front of Vader's personal hit crew.

I was a Mandalorian.

Ouch.

My issue is more that I'm the Smart Guy (read: wizard) in a party most of whose members aren't big on things like "having any idea what the heck we're jumping into" or "staying in town for any longer than it takes to turn the nearest tavern/inn into a frat party."

Angel Bob
2013-04-02, 02:34 PM
^ Funnily enough, I'm the Wizard in my party, yet it was ME who decided to start a tavern brawl for the lulz.

...Obviously, that didn't turn out very well...

Anyway, apologies if it's been said before, but:

206a. No matter how scary a monster's stats are, nothing is more dangerous to the party than the party itself. Be sure to plan accordingly.

206b. Especially when certain players are absent. This is hard to predict, but try to avoid situations in which half the party ends up thrown into a 30-foot chasm because the other half didn't want to bother running their characters for the encounter.

GreatWyrmGold
2013-04-02, 03:49 PM
Really? I find the opposite. If I wanna hide something well, I put it on the ceiling. It takes ages to find.
209. Players are unpredictable. Deal with it.

Baroncognito
2013-04-03, 02:54 PM
20. Someone will end up quoting monty python or the princess bride.

In my group we're much more likely to end up quoting "That Mitchell and Webb look"

Our battle cry is "City Inspectors!" and, if we have a moment to talk, we try to convince the villains that we're here inspecting their lairs as representatives of the department of Health and Safety.

Hyena
2013-04-03, 03:24 PM
210. Chaotic neutral is another way of saying "chaotic evil".
211. Sometimes it's valid even for chaotic good.

Slipperychicken
2013-04-03, 11:25 PM
201) The best recurring villains aren't the strongest. They are the ones who offend the PC's in some personal way. My favourite strategy is have a rival thief pickpocket the party's thief and leave a taunting message. You don't have to take much, because you've taken their pride. Get a caster to counter their casters, drawing them into a personalized duel, and then run away just when they are about to win. Have a superior combatant disarm your fighters and sneer at their incompetence before swaggering off. Your players will hate them, and thoroughly enjoy doing so.

One PC was separated from the party, so the DM had the player control over one enemy during a fight with the other PCs, so he wouldn't get bored. This tends to result in much better-roleplayed villains, since the player can concentrate his whole attention on it.

That Demon, I didn't hold anything against him, just a regular ego-maniacal monster who I accidentally summoned. Until he possessed the party's pet Troll, knocked me down to 0hp with a thrown child (killing the child in the process)... and snapped my wand of Cure Light Wounds. Then s*** got real :smallfurious:

I blew through every one of my remaining Summon Monster spell-likes (6) to kill that effing Demon's possessed body. He was such a successful villain that the next game is going to be about hunting him down :smallbiggrin:

LordErebus12
2013-04-04, 09:28 PM
212: Never let the poisoner gain immunity to iocane powder.

Verbannon
2013-04-07, 08:53 PM
213. If it will take time to look something up, don't bother looking it up. You are the DM. They are the players. Your word is absolute regardless of anything even your previous words. Wait for when you have time to do this, like during a break or in between games.

214. Players are all to the last complete and utter morons with no concept of even basic tactics and are incapable of responding to even the simplest tactical maneuvers.

214b. For example, you have the enemies surround the party on both sides, they will just sit there and let the enemies hit them on their flanks until that level 5 party is TPKed by a level 1 encounter.

214c. If the powerful ranged units are using weak fodder to slow the party down while he cuts them down from range, the party will let him while they spend all of their time first on the nearer fodder. Regardless of any other options available to them.

214d. The players are incapable of risk assessment when deciding who they will attack.

214e. The players will refuse to work with each other on purpose, preferring to all try to keep the spotlight for themselves.

214f. The Players are incapable of handling differnt types of threats simultaneously. Combining a trap that requires skill checks to defeat with some basic monsters will crush the party.

215. The Party will insist on resting fully after every encounter no matter how time sensitive something is.

Scow2
2013-04-07, 09:24 PM
213. If it will take time to look something up, don't bother looking it up. You are the DM. They are the players. Your word is absolute regardless of anything even your previous words.

214. Players are all to the last complete and utter morons with no concept of even basic tactics and are incapable of responding to even the simplest tactical maneuvers.

214b. For example, you have the enemies surround the party on both sides, they will just sit there and let the enemies hit them on their flanks until that level 5 party is TPKed by a level 1 encounter.

214c. If the powerful ranged units are using weak fodder to slow the party down while he cuts them down from range, the party will let him while they spend all of their time first on the nearer fodder.

214d. The players are incapable of risk assessment when deciding who they will attack.

214e. The players will refuse to work with each other on purpose, preferring to all try to keep the spotlight for themselves.

214f. The Players are incapable of handling differnt types of threats simultaneously. Combining a trap that requires skill checks to defeat with some basic monsters will crush the party.

215. The Party will insist on resting fully after every encounter no matter how time sensitive something is.
213a. Changing official rules on the spot among players familiar with them, providing inconsistent rules by contradicting yourself, and making rulings that change or undermine the abilities of a player's character all erode Player/GM trust. Doing it too often start costing you players and can get you 'blacklisted'.

Slipperychicken
2013-04-07, 10:24 PM
213a. Changing official rules on the spot among players familiar with them, providing inconsistent rules by contradicting yourself, and making rulings that change or undermine the abilities of a player's character all erode Player/GM trust. Doing it too often start costing you players and can get you 'blacklisted'.

As a player who has dumped two GMs over this issue, I agree completely.

Verbannon
2013-04-07, 11:07 PM
There, I edited it. Happy now?

Fable Wright
2013-04-07, 11:34 PM
214c. If the powerful ranged units are using weak fodder to slow the party down while he cuts them down from range, the party will let him while they spend all of their time first on the nearer fodder.


To be fair, sometimes you really do need to deal with the fodder, especially at low levels. AoO damage from running between mooks can really add up, and if the mooks can Trip...

Of course, if the party has access to flight and/or tactical teleportation and is still doing this, there's a problem.

Verbannon
2013-04-07, 11:43 PM
To be fair, sometimes you really do need to deal with the fodder, especially at low levels. AoO damage from running between mooks can really add up, and if the mooks can Trip...

Of course, if the party has access to flight and/or tactical teleportation and is still doing this, there's a problem.

It was D&D fourth edition so thats not really a factor but I see your point, I'll reword it.

Notreallyhere77
2013-04-08, 12:20 AM
187) There will be a power gamer who refuses to pull back for the sake of either your own abilities as a GM or the optimization of the other players. They will use excuses such as, "I want my character to be effective," and accuse you of punishing them for doing well.


Right, but what do I DO about him?

I know this is off topic, but I really need advice. I've read the Pathfinder GM Guide, I've spoken to players in other groups, but nothing works. If I make the adventure focus on non-combat encounters, he kills things anyway, and then whines that the fight was too easy and I should make the friendly monsters/NPCs/Questgivers/Clue-droppers more powerful. Puzzles are right out.

I've come to two options:
I can reduce the power level of all opponents to minimal amounts, so that instead of his level 10 character solo-killing a CR 11 monster in one round, he solo-kills a CR 2 monster in one round (and has nothing to gloat over - seriously, he gloats. It's nauseating). This has the side effect of presenting no challenge to the rest of the party (who actually want a challenge, but are denied if he wins initiative).
OR, I can change encounters so that two CR 12 monsters focus on him and the other, normally-powered monsters engage the rest of the party, but this has two terrible outcomes. Either he loses, and whines about how unfair I'm being, or he wins, and gloats for months about how great his build is.

To make things worse, I actually have two of them, but only one acts like a **** all the time. The other is a team player who's just horribly effective at making encounters too easy for everyone else. How do I tame the gloater?

And before you say, "Kick him out of the game," I should mention that I play at his house and his wife is one of my favorite players.

Erik Vale
2013-04-08, 12:49 AM
Mention it to the wife. Get her to make him behave. However make sure to explain all your attempts have failed first.

Slipperychicken
2013-04-08, 12:55 AM
And before you say, "Kick him out of the game," I should mention that I play at his house and his wife is one of my favorite players.

What's he doing, specifically? Perhaps he has a terrible weak save or some other easily exploited weakness. A lot of times, players make characters who are amazing at the HP/AC/damage game, but completely suck at saves, or resisting CC, or at dealing with difficult terrain, or dealing with large numbers of mooks.


Have you tried telling him directly that his characters are too powerful? If you already have, and he refused, you can try giving him (in private, hopefully) a choice: play a reasonable character, or don't play.

You could try posing it as a challenge. Sure he can wreck face with an optimized huge-numbers badass, but anyone can do that. How well can he do with a weaker character? Can his wits match his CharOP?

Seconding telling the wife, seeing if she can help out.

SgtCarnage92
2013-04-08, 02:33 AM
Honestly the player I have to deal with isn't nearly as bad (and he's kept me on my toes as far as builds and whatnot goes, which has actually improved my GMing. If only I could get him to build reasonable encounters when he GMs we'd be fine). What exactly is he playing and why is he steamrolling everything?

If he's being a tool about the whole thing that's what you address first as it's honestly your biggest problem. It's not the power-gaming (as you mentioned you have another one who isn't a jerk about it). Discuss it with your other players and get their perspective on it, they may not mind it as much as you do in which it's more a player v. GM problem that needs to be dealt with (and is frankly a much harder problem to deal with). Once you know the other player's perspective then you can figure out how to proceed.

I also suggest calling him out on it when he pulls a **** move next time. Be blunt, be honest, and don't back down. He may not realize how much of a jerk he's being and having it pointed out to him in the moment may wake him up (i've done this to several players, they don't like me for it but they didn't cause as much of a problem later). This works especially well if your other players on on the same page as you. You don't want him to feel like he's backed into a corner, and if he's the sort with a temper this also isn't advised (although the "I'm going to take my ball and go home" reaction makes me laugh. I am a terrible person). This can have some pretty significant backlash, but if he respects you as a friend it won't be too bad.

I like the suggestion of going to his wife and discussing it with her, just make sure the discussion coming from her and not from you through her (if this makes sense).

I've tried the "playing a weaker character to see how well you hold up" thing in the past and it didn't elicit a positive response. It might work for you, just saying it's not foolproof.

Mnemophage
2013-04-08, 04:35 AM
216: No erotic adventures. Ever. Ever. Even if there's a succubus in the manual. You can include obviously sexually-oriented characters and situations where characters would have sex, but anything other than a fade to black has a distinct chance of ending up really creepy. There's a time and a place, and none of them include funny dice.

216a: Unless it's a solo game with someone who you share a mutual attraction with. I guess.

217: If there exists a piece of information the players need to have, an action that needs to be completed for the plot to progress, or some other important thing that has to happen or everything goes to hell, do not make its occurrence dependent on a dice roll.

218: Sometimes the players will hook onto something you haven't prepared anything for and explore that random piece of background for one or SEVERAL sessions. There are a few ways to handle this, be it inserting random side plots (generators help here) or outright stating that there is nothing of importance at this particular location. I once had a group of players explore a boarded-up theater that I had included as an offhandedly-mentioned piece of background fluff. For an entire session. The only way to do this wrong is have them kick open a succession of doors to empty rooms. Randomness can be forgiven; metagame information can be forgiven; boredom is sin.

219: If you include a character, item, or piece of fluff as a gag, expect the party will remember it at the exact moment when its inclusion would be unbelievably inconvenient to whatever you have planned.

220: You have a DM screen. You can fudge. Use this power sparingly, and only for the good.

221: Secret rolls are your friend. Keep track of your party's perception scores and feel free to roll them when there's something secret afoot that you might not want them to know that they don't know.

222: In any sci-fi setting where lasers are present, those lasers are going to be immediately deadly to anyone who isn't a heavily-armored combat monster. Your task as the DM is to provide combat scenarios with judicious use of cover, elevation, battlefield conditions or devices. There should NEVER be a situation where two sides are staring each other down across an empty field.

223: DMing drunk is only fun if everyone else is also drunk.

224: The enjoyment of Call of Cthulhu is greatly increased with the addition of alcohol.

Scow2
2013-04-08, 09:15 AM
Right, but what do I DO about him?

I know this is off topic, but I really need advice. I've read the Pathfinder GM Guide, I've spoken to players in other groups, but nothing works. If I make the adventure focus on non-combat encounters, he kills things anyway, and then whines that the fight was too easy and I should make the friendly monsters/NPCs/Questgivers/Clue-droppers more powerful. Puzzles are right out.

I've come to two options:
I can reduce the power level of all opponents to minimal amounts, so that instead of his level 10 character solo-killing a CR 11 monster in one round, he solo-kills a CR 2 monster in one round (and has nothing to gloat over - seriously, he gloats. It's nauseating). This has the side effect of presenting no challenge to the rest of the party (who actually want a challenge, but are denied if he wins initiative).
OR, I can change encounters so that two CR 12 monsters focus on him and the other, normally-powered monsters engage the rest of the party, but this has two terrible outcomes. Either he loses, and whines about how unfair I'm being, or he wins, and gloats for months about how great his build is.

To make things worse, I actually have two of them, but only one acts like a **** all the time. The other is a team player who's just horribly effective at making encounters too easy for everyone else. How do I tame the gloater?

And before you say, "Kick him out of the game," I should mention that I play at his house and his wife is one of my favorite players.As something of a power-gamer prone to 'gloating' when my build works and steamrolls an encounter, all I can suggest is: Find his weaknesses, and hit it hard. Not too often, though. Just enough to remind him that the character DOES have weaknesses, and it's worth toning down the overkill to shore them up.

Karoht
2013-04-08, 11:25 AM
Right, but what do I DO about him?

I know this is off topic, but I really need advice. I've read the Pathfinder GM Guide, I've spoken to players in other groups, but nothing works. If I make the adventure focus on non-combat encounters, he kills things anyway, and then whines that the fight was too easy and I should make the friendly monsters/NPCs/Questgivers/Clue-droppers more powerful. Puzzles are right out.

@Puzzles are right out
Why? Because he can't solve them, or because he refuses to try? Does he stand back and let others solve the puzzle for him? If yes, have the party get split up into individual challenges. Make his an easy puzzle, and then a fun challenging monster as his reward.
If the other characters are busy with their puzzles, they can have time to think while he fights. This has two benefits. Keeps mr troublemaker out of trouble, and it means that no one is really 'on the spot' to answer the riddle or solve their particular puzzle.
Also, try making your puzzles work more like mini-games. The puzzle is figuring out the rules, then it is a matter of playing the mini-game.


@He kills things anyway
Killing people still earns one a reputation in the world, for better or for worse. Are the people he is killing garnering him a positive reputation or a negative one. If the answer is negative, great, bounties on his head are going to start popping up. Custom build an NPC (or a party) who focuses on tracking him down and capturing him. Scrying is a thing, Legend Lore is a thing. He can lie all he wants, the truth is unavoidable.
Of course, this can also backfire. If he knows that killing the nobodies is making him a somebody, this could make things worse. Mark of Justice/Geas can curb him, but this can be seen as remarkably invasive to a player.
Either way, make consequences happen, and make them matter. He will either get the hint or he will start being more clever about it.

Telonius
2013-04-08, 12:52 PM
225. Unless the players have been checking for 10+ minutes real-time, the phrase, "There are no traps," should never escape your lips. The proper wording is, "You don't find any traps" (preferably delivered with an evil smile). If you say "there are no traps" ten times, and the eleventh, "you don't find any traps," the players will immediately assume that they are in the middle of a minefield and take 20 for the rest of the dungeon.

Notreallyhere77
2013-04-08, 02:07 PM
Thanks for the advice so far, guys. Sorry if I'm derailing the thread with this, but seeing as this is an advice thread, it kinda has a place here.

First off, @ Erik Vale and Slipperychicken
The wife has given up. She's very non-confrontational, and she's considered not playing anymore because he won't let her share the spotlight.

@Slipperychicken again: What he does is play characters with high mobility (flying whenever possible), few weaknesses (only weakness on current character is reflex save), and retires characters once I catch on to what hurts him. For the log of my current campaign, and what he's played in it, here's a link: http://lazyclownfish.prophpbb.com/topic42.html
His name's Mitch. Uriel is a super-debuffer inquisitor who somehow does more damage with a heavy flail than most fighters do with a greatsword.
Nahaad was a ranged-grapple machine (harpoon+hamatula strike)
Sir Rollins was a luring cavalier who'd reduce enemies to half health with a bow, and compel them to close into melee, where he'd finish them off with a sword and camel-attack.
Octavian used ranks in knowledge (engineering) to build a self-starting rocket launcher. Expensive, but powerful at low levels.

And yes, I tell him his builds overshadow other players, and he says it's because they are just being weak and should have taken his advice on optimizing.
And he does not want a challenge in the game. To him, the challenge is contriving the unbeatable build, not playing it.

@Scow2: That's the plan. But I have no idea when we'll start the session with him saying "Oh, I'm not playing that guy anymore, he got boring. I'm playing this guy now." Part of me thinks he's just trying to stay at max WBL in an under-wealthed campaign, part of me thinks he's trying to keep my counter-strategies from working.

@Karoht: I'm bad at making puzzles. He's better at solving them than I am at making them. And he is very good at being the loudest and most forceful person in the room when everyone is proposing suggestions.
As to the killing, he's currently playing an evil character bent on elven genocide, so a bad reputation doesn't bother him. If shops won't do business with him, he's more than willing to kill or intimidate the shopkeepers. If assassins are sent after him, he kills them by himself or gets the party to help. The other powergamer never misses an opportunity for (non-suicidal) combat, so between them everything dies. Like usual.
If you have ideas on making consequences that matter (other than killing his former characters off-camera, which is seen as a **** move in our group), I'd be in your debt.

Back to original thread topic -
@Mnemophage: I stand behind you on 216 100%. Players can be perverts on levels you didn't even imagine. If a PC wants to do the nasty, it stays off-camera. If they get interrupted, by assassins, orc raids, or whatever, don't describe what was going on before the interruption, just assume the PC stands up on his/her initiative, and account for any missing gear.

Scow2
2013-04-08, 02:17 PM
@Scow2: That's the plan. But I have no idea when we'll start the session with him saying "Oh, I'm not playing that guy anymore, he got boring. I'm playing this guy now." Part of me thinks he's just trying to stay at max WBL in an under-wealthed campaign, part of me thinks he's trying to keep my counter-strategies from working.Don't put up with New Character bull****. Tell him that if he's coming in with a new character, it has to be a level behind everyone else, and a level under that of Wealth-by-level, or something like that. If he sticks with the character, he'll catch up.


However, now, it seems that you have a bigger problem, if he's not letting his wife play. It's her house and her campaign too.

Karoht
2013-04-08, 03:04 PM
@Karoht: I'm bad at making puzzles. He's better at solving them than I am at making them. And he is very good at being the loudest and most forceful person in the room when everyone is proposing suggestions.
As to the killing, he's currently playing an evil character bent on elven genocide, so a bad reputation doesn't bother him. If shops won't do business with him, he's more than willing to kill or intimidate the shopkeepers. If assassins are sent after him, he kills them by himself or gets the party to help. The other powergamer never misses an opportunity for (non-suicidal) combat, so between them everything dies. Like usual.
If you have ideas on making consequences that matter (other than killing his former characters off-camera, which is seen as a **** move in our group), I'd be in your debt.

With 100% of all due respect, you sound like you have a few problems with this guy.
Bad at making puzzles: Crib a few off the internet if need be. And if he's used to shouting overtop of people, then a puzzle he has to figure out and solve solo sounds right up his ally. He might even enjoy it.
Bad reputation and ramifications: If he manages to kill them himself, then they weren't a challenge for him. Hit harder. He isn't an unstoppable juggernaut. Hit him with a Wizard using a very specific list of spells designed to counter him. If he isn't scrying immune, then the Wizard did exactly what Wizards do, spent time studying the target and prepared accordingly.
If he pulls in the party to bail him out for his poor actions, then you might want to consider punishing the party as well. Nothing harsh on them, but something enough to make them think twice about assisting him, or at the very least, assisting him in difficult to prove ways. IE-A party member might cast a buff spell on him, or throw a heal at him, but isn't likely to use force against those who are out for his blood.

ForkBeard
2013-04-08, 03:18 PM
LMAO!! Ok that was funny IMO.



But it doesn't say that
It says that all succubi are rectum bent

stupiddDice
2013-04-08, 03:22 PM
Thanks for the advice so far, guys. Sorry if I'm derailing the thread with this, but seeing as this is an advice thread, it kinda has a place here.

@Slipperychicken again: What he does is play characters with high mobility (flying whenever possible), few weaknesses (only weakness on current character is reflex save), and retires characters once I catch on to what hurts him. For the log of my current campaign, and what he's played in it, here's a link: http://lazyclownfish.prophpbb.com/topic42.html
His name's Mitch. Uriel is a super-debuffer inquisitor who somehow does more damage with a heavy flail than most fighters do with a greatsword.
Nahaad was a ranged-grapple machine (harpoon+hamatula strike)
Sir Rollins was a luring cavalier who'd reduce enemies to half health with a bow, and compel them to close into melee, where he'd finish them off with a sword and camel-attack.
Octavian used ranks in knowledge (engineering) to build a self-starting rocket launcher. Expensive, but powerful at low levels.





If his reflex save sucks and if he does not have fly, try using the create pit line of spells on him. Also, have enemies attack him in disguise if he uses the bane ability. If he's using a mace, the spell fluid form (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/fluid-form) should disrupt him quite a bit (have him fight an alchemist w/ the infuse discovery to give it to his buddies or use a scroll).

edit: forgot what stat inquisitor casting was from

Erik Vale
2013-04-08, 04:46 PM
Poor reflex save and flight?
Fireball/Energy Substituted fireball and other area affects should go nicely, and flying may keep the rest of the party out of it.
He's a caster, subject him to drains of his casting stat.
He threatens shop keepers, have a inn-keeper poison his food.
He's evil and a massive murderer. As has been said send a carefully prepared wizard after him [it's not metagaming if he has scrying on his spell list], probably a small group of them if your worried. If the other PC's are good, ask why they help him, possibly have said wizards use message [which is two way... Going to need to use lots] to possibly get good PC's to help with the stopping of the heinious evil [take watch, let wizards through, have wizards gank player in sleep.]. Or even send a group of adventurers, that way the other PC's have to chose between saving a mass murderer or killing heroes who are trying to stop said murderer. [Only works if others are good.]
Repeat as neccessary until he plays a good aligned character, or at least not a chaotic stupid or a nuetral murder.
If your adventurer is good, but is instead evil, Summon bigger fish, hard. He probably won't give up, so when the others are forced to surrender, he won't, and he'll be stomped.
Also, possibly don't stat up the hunter/s, just know what he should/shouldn't be able to do, roll dice as necessary, and just go along until you kill him.

As for creating new characters, refuse to let him. Why would said character spontainously join the group? Or how did he appear in the middle of a dungeon crawl? Make him come up with a RP reason that would have said character join the group that all could agree on.
Also, if his wife is already considering leaving the campaign and he's a douche, look at finding another place to roleplay, doing it in advance will make things easier for when she leaves and the rest of your group wants to stop playing with him because he ruins the fun.
And then you invite her, and you offer restricted chances to him if her promises to behave.

Fable Wright
2013-04-08, 05:27 PM
I've come to two options:
I can reduce the power level of all opponents to minimal amounts, so that instead of his level 10 character solo-killing a CR 11 monster in one round, he solo-kills a CR 2 monster in one round (and has nothing to gloat over - seriously, he gloats. It's nauseating). This has the side effect of presenting no challenge to the rest of the party (who actually want a challenge, but are denied if he wins initiative).
OR, I can change encounters so that two CR 12 monsters focus on him and the other, normally-powered monsters engage the rest of the party, but this has two terrible outcomes. Either he loses, and whines about how unfair I'm being, or he wins, and gloats for months about how great his build is.

My recommendation? Send a number of medium-powered monsters at him. Say a few (5-6) Remorhazes with a some templates added. He can kill one or two easily, but as soon as one gets a hit on him (probably doing so by coming up from under the ground), he's stuck in a grapple against someone with a higher CMB. He then has to use a weapon he might or might not carry (a light weapon) to do anything in combat, and he soaks significant damage while doing so. He's significantly more challenged, he has something to be proud about killing, and the party still has a bunch of level-appropriate monsters to fight as a team in case one of them gets stuck in a grapple. It might not work against Nahaad, but it would be an interesting encounter against the rest of his characters.

As for consequences to his actions? The natural ones would suffice. Elves know that he's a genocidal maniac, and prepare accordingly. A group of Elves accosts the party, trying to kill them. Naturally, he slaughters them. Among the loot, he finds an orb that has an active scrying sensor on it. A few sessions later, a properly prepared Wizard that can counter his techniques and lock him down, and then incapacitates him and forces him to face repentance: He receives a (Greater, if it exists) Mark of Justice and a geas that forces him to help every elf he comes across. Needless to say, this won't work if he's allowed to just switch out characters on a whim.

Scow2
2013-04-08, 06:14 PM
My recommendation? Send a number of medium-powered monsters at him. Say a few (5-6) Remorhazes with a some templates added. He can kill one or two easily, but as soon as one gets a hit on him (probably doing so by coming up from under the ground), he's stuck in a grapple against someone with a higher CMB. He then has to use a weapon he might or might not carry (a light weapon) to do anything in combat, and he soaks significant damage while doing so. He's significantly more challenged, he has something to be proud about killing, and the party still has a bunch of level-appropriate monsters to fight as a team in case one of them gets stuck in a grapple. It might not work against Nahaad, but it would be an interesting encounter against the rest of his characters.

As for consequences to his actions? The natural ones would suffice. Elves know that he's a genocidal maniac, and prepare accordingly. A group of Elves accosts the party, trying to kill them. Naturally, he slaughters them. Among the loot, he finds an orb that has an active scrying sensor on it. A few sessions later, a properly prepared Wizard that can counter his techniques and lock him down, and then incapacitates him and forces him to face repentance: He receives a (Greater, if it exists) Mark of Justice and a geas that forces him to help every elf he comes across. Needless to say, this won't work if he's allowed to just switch out characters on a whim.

Why would the elves permit someone who had done so much against them to live? I'd expect a Coup de Grace instead of any form of repentance.

Besides - the player creates new characters anyway.

Slipperychicken
2013-04-08, 06:52 PM
Among the loot, he finds an orb that has an active scrying sensor on it. A few sessions later, a properly prepared Wizard that can counter his techniques and lock him down, and then incapacitates him and forces him to face repentance: He receives a (Greater, if it exists) Mark of Justice and a geas that forces him to help every elf he comes across. Needless to say, this won't work if he's allowed to just switch out characters on a whim.

Moral of the story: Pathfinder gives you free Identify (Detect Magic) at will. It's your own fault if you don't scan everything. Also hope he doesn't just stuff the Orb into his Haversack until he sells it (okay, then you might know the contents of his inventory if it works across planes, but not his combat tricks).

Fable Wright
2013-04-08, 07:30 PM
Moral of the story: Pathfinder gives you free Identify (Detect Magic) at will. It's your own fault if you don't scan everything. Also hope he doesn't just stuff the Orb into his Haversack until he sells it (okay, then you might know the contents of his inventory if it works across planes, but not his combat tricks).

Combat tricks? The Wizard saw those when the Elf ally was carrying the orb. Putting it in the loot just allows the Wizard to scan the rest of the character's loot, and potentially additional tricks/daily buff routine if the Wizard is lucky.

Slipperychicken
2013-04-08, 07:38 PM
Combat tricks? The Wizard saw those when the Elf ally was carrying the orb. Putting it in the loot just allows the Wizard to scan the rest of the character's loot, and potentially additional tricks/daily buff routine if the Wizard is lucky.

Clever, I like it. How would he do the scrying orb thing? Spherescry (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/spherescry)?

Vknight
2013-04-08, 09:24 PM
Clever, I like it. How would he do the scrying orb thing? Spherescry (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/spherescry)?

I agree with all that has been said
Yes but with something to boost it so it lasts hours or even days

But your all forgetting one thing Fire... Fire drug him and have him be burned at the stack for heresy or genocide.
Tied down, with a gag he cannot do anything.
Also have him get separated from the group for a bit maybe have his services be called to the religious town, but it is a trap by some elves a Anti-magic field and a monk and/or fighter will make any man cry

Notreallyhere77
2013-04-09, 12:45 AM
I'm back, and I've had time to read all of your replies.

@Everyone: Thank you. You guys are the best. I shouldn't hold back with enemies tailored to his weaknesses. I just remember how much I hated it when he did it to me as DM and how I felt it was unfair (though the way he did it was by not preparing spells in advance for a magical duel - not the same).
So I guess the plan is to bring up enemies from his past (he should have a lot), and find ways to make his flight ability impossible or irrelevant. Then follow up with some clever traps (suicidal "assassins" with cursed loot comes to mind), and plenty of flying swarms and hungry wyverns for random encounters.
Let it be known that I'm not trying to kill his character (though I will be representing people who are), just keep him occupied while I weave a tale of political intrigue, daring jewel-heists, and an impending planar invasion for everyone else. Even the other powergamer cares enough about the story to ask who needs to die and in what order.

@Karoht: You are correct. I have problems at and away from the table with him. He picks on everybody, but I'm the butt of his jokes more often than not. I laugh most of it off, and I'm good at hiding what really bugs me and pretending to be sensitive about things that don't, so that he only picks at things that he thinks hurt the most. He's a bully, but he's so self-centered that he doesn't seem to know.

I admit I may have misled some of you with the comment about his wife. She likes my campaign and isn't going to leave it, but may not play after I'm done running.
I have tried to make a new group with just the people that I know and like, but no one has the same night off. I'd invite her in a heartbeat if I could actually get a new group together.

...


...



Ooookay. For those of you just watching and learning, learn from what was said. To make up for the distraction I've caused, let's get this thread back on topic.

226. Random (http://donjon.bin.sh/) generators (http://nine.frenchboys.net/) are (http://www.seventhsanctum.com/) your (http://www.random-generator.com/index.php?title=Main_Page) best (http://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2011/08/attempt-to-list-employ-all-random.html) friend (http://roll1d12.blogspot.com/) in (http://citygen.crystalballsoft.com/) the (http://www.chaoticshiny.com/) world (http://www.springhole.net/writing_roleplaying_randomators/index.html). Yes, every word in that sentence was a different link.

227. Whether you build your world from the top down or the bottom up, have some idea of both the immediate surroundings of the party and the bigger picture. If you are the top-down sort, it is especially important that you remember to make details for the campaign's first scene.

228. Give ships silly names. Your players will love them. Names like Thunderbringer and Tiderunner are pretentious. The S.S. Sticky Spigot will make the ship more concrete in their heads. An unnamed ship is remembered only as the price of travel.

229. If your PCs are destined to save the world, don't put a lot of more powerful NPCs unless you can (plausibly) explain why they don't save the world themselves. The players won't necesarily need to know, but if they ask you should have an answer ready.

230. Encourage your players to gather information. Remember that sometimes that information should be wrong. False assumptions, scandalous rumors, and superstitions outweigh facts and evidence in human brains.

230a. At a minimum, 75% of ingormation gathered should be true, and at least 50% of it should be complete. That encourages players to do it, but it gives you some wiggle room for misleading them IF IT WILL ENHANCE THE PLOT.

231. There is always a bigger fish. That said, bigger fish might not immediately care what the PCs or villains are going through.

232. Rare does not equal powerful, but powerful should equal rare. This goes for monsters, items, and NPCs alike.

233. Adventures should play to a party's strengths first, and their weaknesses second.

234. Terrain is a part of combat often overlooked. Flagstone floors in dungeons are predictable and simple to run, but not exciting. When it makes sense, throw in a foot of water, or snow. Throw in furniture. Make sections of the floor move or vanish, or fall away. Have waist-high walls and stairs and balconies and waterfalls and molds and rubble and load-bearing smashable columns and chandaliers and wet ice. But whatever you throw in, know how it will work before you run the encounter.

235. Find out what your players want from your campaign long before the first session starts. If they want a kick-in-the-door, non-linear, dragon-hunting campaign, they will tell you. If they want character development, mysteries to solve, and a rise to political power, they will tell you. Don't assume that everyone will enjoy what you've spent the last two months planning.

235a. Sometimes a group will be split about the game they want to play in. Learn to compromise if you don't know how already.

235b. Players don't always know what they want. Watch them play, and plan subsequent sessions according to what captures their attention the most.

236. Players may not listen when you describe the political structure of the kingdom, the extraneous details of their environment, or even the appearance of the monster attacking them, but they will always, always listen to what they got for treasure. When you want to bring up history, tell them their new +1 greatsword is the style used by the Gallentians in the Twenty-Year War, and let them ask questions themselves.

237. If the players ignore it, it's not important. If it's a clue, give them another. If it's a sidequest, rival parties can deal with it. Don't force things.

238. NPCs have lives independent of the party and will act off camera. A timeline for ambitious NPCs will do wonders for your campaign.

I think that's enough for now.

John Campbell
2013-04-09, 01:07 AM
221: Secret rolls are your friend. Keep track of your party's perception scores and feel free to roll them when there's something secret afoot that you might not want them to know that they don't know.
221a) Alternately, ask the players to roll Perception checks periodically, whether there's anything of actual interest to perceive or not.

SgtCarnage92
2013-04-09, 02:56 AM
239. Plot hooks will be ignored. Have a resolution to them regardless of whether or not the party actually picks up on it. Have a basic idea how every plot hook will resolve if the players choose not to participate and have the world react accordingly. This just gives more ways for the player's to affect the world. Not only by what they do, but what they don't do.

239b. This does not mean have catastrophic events happen for every ignored plot hook. Good things can happen if the players don't pick a hook to and very little might change in the overall scheme of things.

239c. If they meet the quest-giver or find the location again, the effect of them not participating should be information that the party can discover...even if it requires a little digging.

240. Forced plots will be a part of any RPG...the key is to make it seem like it wasn't forced.

241. Don't be afraid to give your party more quests than they can accomplish. How they prioritize these can really give you a good idea what they want to do and what they want to accomplish.

242. Never forget the outcome of a plotline. These can become invaluable when coming up with future plot hooks.

243. Your players may not want to take advantage of the down-time you intend to give their characters. This is okay. Some of the greatest stories ever take place over the course of a few days or weeks.

244. You will always have problems with encounter balance.

245. The players will ask for NPC names when you didn't have one prepared. Have a short list on hand just in case. It's fine to repeat names, especially in particular regions. The players will remember the unique features of a character before their name anyway.

246. You will always have an idea for a better campaign than the one you are currently running. Avoid the urge to cancel the one you are currently running to accept this new idea. Write it down for future usage. If it can be integrated without upsetting the tone and story of the current campaign, do so.

247. Sometimes encounters get boring, don't be afraid to bring in new small mechanics to change things up. Pathfinder's chase mechanic is one of my group's favorites even if it doesn't come up often.

248. Some players will turn every encounter with a member of the opposite sex into something sexual. Be prepared for this but know you can't control how they imagine the world, only influence it. (apparently all women have massive breasts and are scantily clad, especially if you describe them as willowy and modestly dressed.)

Sith_Happens
2013-04-09, 04:23 AM
@Karoht: You are correct. I have problems at and away from the table with him. He picks on everybody, but I'm the butt of his jokes more often than not. I laugh most of it off, and I'm good at hiding what really bugs me and pretending to be sensitive about things that don't, so that he only picks at things that he thinks hurt the most. He's a bully, but he's so self-centered that he doesn't seem to know.

Oh, well in that case the answer is in fact "kick him the **** out, find new location to hold your sessions if necessary. Optional: tell him that you might be willing to let him back in once he's willing to act like an agreeable member of society. Might."

Angel Bob
2013-04-09, 07:34 AM
^ As with Sith. This is the kind of situation where the best course of action is to just get out.

Man on Fire
2013-04-09, 07:40 AM
The wife has given up. She's very non-confrontational, and she's considered not playing anymore because he won't let her share the spotlight.

Kick him out. Find other place to play if you need, but thet's the best he deserves.

Karoht
2013-04-09, 10:03 AM
So I guess the plan is to bring up enemies from his past (he should have a lot), and find ways to make his flight ability impossible or irrelevant.Control Weather and a few others can make flight rather tricky.
A Wizard who uses Ghoul Touch is likely to paralyze him, and drop him from the sky. All the Wizard needs to do is use Spectral Hand which will allow him to deliver touch spells at a range.
Or, have a Cleric use Hold Person on him. One of the best anti-flyer spells out there. However, he is an Inquisitor? His Wisdom will be high, so his will save will be high. Spectral Weapon + Toppling Spell can also knock him out of the sky.
But, I have to ask, how many things out there are really negated by fliers? To casters, not much. To most of the ranged classes... not much. Melee? No problem, cast Fly on them. Flying is important but it is also very easy to make non-important.

To challenge him period:
He's an Inquisitor? Wind-Wall and Protection from Arrows are excellent counters to his ranged attacks, his melee is easy to get around, target his Reflex or Fort save, use spells like Entangle or Grease, throw a Tanglefoot bag at him. 2nd Level Spell called Fridgid Touch is one of my favorites, also deliverable via Spectral Hand.
Lastly, Force Punch is hilarious for if he manages to get close, or again, deliver via Spectral hand. Have a caster of some sort slap him around town for a while with Force Punch and watch the fun.
Use Illusions. Sure, he's got ways to counter them. Great. But his wasted actions are still wasted actions.


Then follow up with some clever traps (suicidal "assassins" with cursed loot comes to mind), and plenty of flying swarms and hungry wyverns for random encounters.CR appropriate (or lower) swarms are good. If he doesn't have an AoE option it will force him to rely on other players at the table.
Combat can be a puzzle too.


@Karoht: You are correct. I have problems at and away from the table with him. He picks on everybody, but I'm the butt of his jokes more often than not. I laugh most of it off, and I'm good at hiding what really bugs me and pretending to be sensitive about things that don't, so that he only picks at things that he thinks hurt the most. He's a bully, but he's so self-centered that he doesn't seem to know.No, I'm pretty sure he knows and just doesn't care.
You shouldn't tollerate bullies, especially in an environment where you are supposed to be having fun. I'm impressed at how thick skinned you are, but you've taken enough of his garbage.


I have tried to make a new group with just the people that I know and like, but no one has the same night off.So... same people sans Mr Bully, but at a different house?

Notreallyhere77
2013-04-09, 01:31 PM
^I'll keep those tactics in mind.
And for those of you concerned, I did try to change locations, but the two players I really like are shut-ins. One hardly leaves the house, the other (the wife) only leaves for work. So I didn't. But after I'm done running this one I might just not come back for a while.


249. Show, don't tell. Letting the PCs walk into a campsite strewn with fresh, eyeless corpses, the air heavy with the scent of burnt cinnamon, and panicked birds fleeing from the East is a lot more effective and evocative than the old codger at the end of the bar talking about the exact same scene.
Perhaps this principle has been mentioned already, and if it has, let me know and I'll put something else here so the numbers don't get out of whack.

250. Make monsters colorful. Like, literally colorful. A gang of 2d4 orcs in chainmail is boring. The same gang wearing red and yellow body paint and wearing painted armor and wielding white weapons? Now they're a team. They're distinguished, and a force to be reckoned with. The orcs' pet wolves? Dye them blue. It's strange, and that makes it more interesting. I don't know why. Your mileage may vary.

251. Try not to cheat. You will be tempted, but breaking the rules for a good reason makes it that much easier to break them for a bad one. For exapmles: If you think your monster needs more hp, write it down before the encounter. If you think your NPC needs an extra feat, see if you can get a similar effect without it. If you have to, refer to the rule below.

252. There are guidelines to help you invent and price your own magic items. Don't be afraid to fiddle around and make something new and fun and flavorful. Remember rule 232, though.

253. Risk and reward must remain as close to equality as possible, or the game doesn't work.

253a. If someone is deliberately setting a trap with false or exagerrated bait, the risk and reward will be totally different from what the players first expect. But they should still be equal. It is okay to misdirect your players in this manner, but not so often that they suspect everything.

254. Someone will roll a high sense motive check against you. When they call your bluff, tell another lie. Remember that people are more willing to believe a story if it contains embarassing details or signs of incompetence. Have at least one backup lie written down for every untrustworthy NPC.

255. Not every secret is big, but everyone will lie to protect them. The mayor lied about where he was on the full moon, not because he's a werewolf, but because he doesn't want his wife knowing about his affair with his maidservant.

256. No one will ask about the monster's backstory unless said monster is really out of place. Even then, they won't care enough to listen beyond two or three sentences unless there's treasure or a quest (which leads to treasure) involved.

257. No one will care about the villain's tragic past, his rise to power through politicking, or where he got his Sword of Despairing Sanity, they care about who has initiative. If you feel the need to monologue, have the villain write a letter or leave a note. Make that letter or note into a prop.

258. Use props, or be good at miming. No need to wear a cape and hat to the session, just hold a pencil when the wizard casts from a wand, and the effect will be there.

259. Work with your players on their characters' backstories. This prevents having to make corrections to their ideas or your gameworld (if the character comes from a nation or culture that doesn't exist). Place NPCs from the PCs' backstories in the world, and have the PCs encounter them, whether friend or foe. This makes your players feel special.

259a. Learn player goals and character goals. If the player or character has no goals, default to power and loot. Do not default to story arcs and character development. If the player or character starts having goals mid-game, respond then, not before. Just like real life, some people don't know what they want until they've been doing something else for a while.

260. Remember that you are not God and you cannot keep track of everything you say. Be prepared to retcon a lot. Don't be subtle when you do, just admit you are in error and tell your players what you're changing. They will understand.

261. Write everything down. Keep your notes organized. There are few things as frustrating than forgetfulness when it comes to keeping your world consistent. That said, the inn that has a new name every time the PCs pass through town could become a fun running gag, but write down what it was named last time so you don't repeat yourself. If you do repeat yourself, have an explanation ready (one of the last owners bought it back or something).

262. The best rewards don't go into PC inventory. Those rewards are fame, connections, revenge, true love, fancy dinners, the bonds of friendship, the favor of the gods, safe retirement, and the satisfaction of a job well done. But God help you if you use these in place of physical treasure rather than in addition to.

263. Keep track of encumberment, food supplies, and air supply. Remind players of the difference between luxury and necessity from time to time and see what happens. As a wise man once said, "Food first, morality second." :smallamused:

Grod_The_Giant
2013-04-09, 01:48 PM
225. Unless the players have been checking for 10+ minutes real-time, the phrase, "There are no traps," should never escape your lips. The proper wording is, "You don't find any traps" (preferably delivered with an evil smile). If you say "there are no traps" ten times, and the eleventh, "you don't find any traps," the players will immediately assume that they are in the middle of a minefield and take 20 for the rest of the dungeon.
225a) Unless you don't want the party spending an hour meticulously combing every room because it's not supposed to be that kind of adventure. In which case "there are no traps" is OK.

Wonton
2013-04-12, 09:20 AM
264) Make sure you establish early on what kind of things the players are comfortable with. Don't be like me and assume that people are okay with some lethality only to have the first character death result in that player literally running out of the room in tears. You will have no one but yourself to blame.

Sith_Happens
2013-04-12, 10:19 AM
262. The best rewards don't go into PC inventory. Those rewards are fame, connections, revenge, true love, fancy dinners, the bonds of friendship, the favor of the gods, safe retirement, and the satisfaction of a job well done. But God help you if you use these in place of physical treasure rather than in addition to.

Heh, I like this one.:smallamused:


264) Make sure you establish early on what kind of things the players are comfortable with. Don't be like me and assume that people are okay with some lethality only to have the first character death result in that player literally running out of the room in tears. You will have no one but yourself to blame.

Good advice, not a good example.

265) Make sure your players know that character death is very much something that can happen in the course of a game. As long as the challenges the players face are appropriate to their ability to survive, whether they actually do so is on them.

Karoht
2013-04-12, 11:23 AM
266: Make sure your players know that just because your character is "dead" it isn't the end of the world. Especially in a world where magic is common and resurrections are cheap.

FleshrakerAbuse
2013-04-12, 02:46 PM
267. Be wary about starting the campaign with characters at different regions. Tell them to include the fact that they have already met/created an alliance, and tie in some buffer so that they won't feel the urge to massacre another group of PCs. (not common, but I've had nightmares).
268. As stated by those below, especially if deaths happen in the first section, have an NPC of similar faith and a good alignment raise these characters. Especially with Revivify or Last Breath. This also allows you to add a moral debt into play, making it easier to add a related plot hook.
269. Always have the PCs pass you their character sheets before sessions start, as to determine (for yourself!) what that obscure spell/weapon is with your own sources.

A Lawless Lad
2013-05-07, 01:32 PM
I'm not sure if it has been posted in here or not yet (truth be told I have not sifted through the previous 269 entries), but:

270) Having a party larger than six people is DM suicide, especially if not all the party members are committed to working together and role-playing appropriately. Bonus points if two of the party members dislike each other beforehand.

Mr Beer
2013-05-07, 04:41 PM
93. No matter what the character sheet say, there are only 3 PC alignments: Lawful Snotty, Neutral Greedy, and Chaotic Backstabbing.

I'm putting this in my sig. Let me know if you object and I will remove it.

Mr Beer
2013-05-07, 04:56 PM
213. If it will take time to look something up, don't bother looking it up. You are the DM. They are the players. Your word is absolute regardless of anything even your previous words. Wait for when you have time to do this, like during a break or in between games.

I pretty much never look something up if it's going to take more than 45 seconds to find, read and understand. But you need to make sure the decision is reasonable because it will cause a lot of angst if it looks like you are gaming against the players.

Mr Beer
2013-05-07, 05:21 PM
@ NotReallyHere:

This guy sounds like a douchebag who is ruining your personal enjoyment of the game. You need to consider some meta-actions to prevent this:

1. Find another location to play.

2. When he says something that's too personal, just tell him "Mate, you're crossing a line. Back it up." Be calm but firm. There's no need to take crap from people.

In game, none of these things should be a problem:

1. Ad-hoc character swapping. No. If you want to swap a character over, you start at least 1 level lower than the current lowest level PC. Same applies when you die. Before you can play that character, it needs to be reviewed and approved by you, the GM. If that hasn't happened, he gets an NPC sheet you created for such occasions, he can play that until he gets a character sorted and you have time (out of game) to properly review it.

2. Murdering everyone, no consequences. Make enemies tougher. He ends up dying, see 1. above, his character is now weaker.

3. Murdering everyone, no consequences. Make non-lethal consequences. Enemies can destroy magic items and valuable equipment. Enemies can imprison and humiliate the character with demeaning manual labour and (charm enforced) obeisance to authority figures. Enemies can cause permanent, crippling damage to characters - bum legs impeding movement, level drain, ugly scars that make people look away from them in disgust.

4. Murdering everyone, party is involved in defending murderer. Law enforcement is equipped with non-lethal weapons. Law enforcement sleeps, entangles, paralyses and grapples characters. Once the interrogation begins, they decide the rest of the party is relatively innocent and lets them go, maybe with a fine or something.

5. Murdering everyone, defeating law enforcement. Note that punitive enemy encounters of this type should never yield valuable treasure. Monks who have taken a vow of poverty and justice are a good choice for this kind of mission, for example. Or a squad of just-buffed monks who got teleported in to do the capture mission. I would also be looking to work the encounter CR ratings to ensure not much XP is forthcoming as well, that's just me though.

Vknight
2013-05-07, 05:25 PM
I'm not sure if it has been posted in here or not yet (truth be told I have not sifted through the previous 269 entries), but:

270) Having a party larger than six people is DM suicide, especially if not all the party members are committed to working together and role-playing appropriately. Bonus points if two of the party members dislike each other beforehand.

270b) This is not true in Supers or Slice of Life games

Mr Beer
2013-05-07, 06:04 PM
271: The amount of time a particular player spends whining about your GM-ing is in inverse proportion to how much time they spend running games themselves. Usually the complainiest player won't GM at all and if they do, they are really bad at it.

Slipperychicken
2013-05-07, 06:10 PM
271: The amount of time a particular player spends whining about your GM-ing is in inverse proportion to how much time they spend running games themselves. Usually the complainiest player won't GM at all and if they do, they are really bad at it.

271a. But if you get enough independent feedback that you're doing something wrong, you probably are. Many a pigheaded DM will dismiss all criticism and consider themselves god's gift to gaming, no matter what anyone says.

Mr Beer
2013-05-07, 06:27 PM
271a. But if you get enough independent feedback that you're doing something wrong, you probably are. Many a pigheaded DM will dismiss all criticism and consider themselves god's gift to gaming, no matter what anyone says.

That's true. Not for me of course, I am God's gift to gaming. But the rest of you need to listen more.

Notreallyhere77
2013-05-09, 01:21 PM
I'm not sure if it has been posted in here or not yet (truth be told I have not sifted through the previous 269 entries), but:

270) Having a party larger than six people is DM suicide, especially if not all the party members are committed to working together and role-playing appropriately. Bonus points if two of the party members dislike each other beforehand.

Story. Of. My. Life.
Except that in my group, a party of six means three or four players didn't show up.

@Mr Beer: I can't kick him out, I play at his house. But I do intend to leave the group at the end of my current campaign. I owe it to his wife to finish her character's story arc and not punish her for his behavior, on or off the table.
On a side note, I'm getting much better at encounter building now that I've 1) taken advice from one of the players about the strengths and weaknesses of the party and 2) added environmental challenges like poor weather and hazardous terrain.
And, surprisingly, he's not murdering everyone with his character, as I had feared he would. And I managed to make him fear for his character's life in one well-built (but not personalized) encounter. I still refuse to turn the game into an optimization contest, but I've been using complementary abilities and monsters and environments to make things more complex than "fly up and hit the monster." Now it's "Fly into the sinking ship and try not to get flanked by the aquatic undead rogues and also don't get burnt by the wall of fire your cleric put up. And do it quickly because there are innocents in danger and your loot is sinking in four rounds."
It was fun. Next session will be roleplaying some amateur detective stuff.

Now, the advice:

272. Play in someone else's campaign if you can. A wise person on these forums whose name I sadly cannot recall once said "The game we run is the game we would most like to play in." Or something to that effect.
This is true. So, when you know that player likes to send you on simple fetch quests, one focuses on mysteries and personal relationships, one gives you encounter after encounter with the barest backdrop of plot, one runs published modules, and one constantly tries to TPK everyone but his wife, you know expectations they have from you. You cannot please everyone at once, but you can please everyone once per session.

273. If real-world events go against you, and you must end a campaign unexpectedly, there are two possibilities.
If you have time for one last session, just throw the BBEG (if applicable) and any minions directly at the party. Fight it out. No matter who wins, the campaign is over. Also, the tarrasque can wake up early if you need it to.
If you don't have time to run a final session, do your friends the courtesy of writing an epilogue that touches on each of their characters. Apply karma, remember their long-term goals, and make sure each player gets a copy. Cliffhangers work well between sessions, but not for grand finales.

274. Every session should have one thing that the players have never seen before. This can be a homebrew monster, a unique terrain, or a strange event, it doesn't matter. If you have a lot of cool ideas like this, pace yourself. Don't overwhelm your players, and don't put yourself in danger of running out of ideas.

275. Recycle unused encounters for the next campaign. Reskin used encounters with different monsters for the same and future campaigns. This will save you a lot of time in the long run, and will keep you from feeling like you wasted time on something your players never saw.

Mr Beer
2013-05-09, 05:38 PM
@Mr Beer: I can't kick him out, I play at his house. But I do intend to leave the group at the end of my current campaign. I owe it to his wife to finish her character's story arc and not punish her for his behavior, on or off the table.

I didn't say kick him out, I said find somewhere else you can play, this then allows you to exclude him.

Sounds like you have a crush on his wife by the way.

The Tyler
2013-05-09, 08:23 PM
I know that as a DM I never let a player just swap out a character for something new (which is honestly a bit hypocritical, because as a player I tend towards wanting to do the same thing).

And you really shouldn't put up with him bullying and insulting you. It's inappropriate and disrespectful. I know you're talking about just finishing the campaign and then leaving the group, but that's not really a solution and he's still going to be a problem for other people.

If you decide that you do want to do something about it, then you need to tell him that you're not going to put up with it. Warn him once, and if he continues, follow through with your warning. I'd suggest either telling him that if he continues, you won't play with him any further (and if he continues, follow through by simply ignoring his character's actions), or you won't DM anymore (in which case, if he continues, you show up the next week with a character sheet for yourself). The second option has the benefit of forcing the other players to also stand up to him if they want you to keep DMing, which they really should be doing anyways.

Anyways, I'm long out of practice in DMing, but here's some advice anyways.

276. Steal plot ideas from anywhere. Your players either won't notice or they won't care. Worse case, if they notice, they'll quote the source material. That's probably a bonus, since it brings fresh material to the table.

277. Your players won't always share your opinion on what's awesome. In fact, if it's not going to make them richer or more powerful, they probably won't care.

278. If you have players who care about things like plot and character development, cherish and nurture them.

Slipperychicken
2013-05-09, 08:43 PM
277. Your players won't always share your opinion on what's awesome. In fact, if it's not going to make them richer or more powerful, they probably won't care.


Personally, as a player I've found myself increasingly going for what I perceive to be the "awesome" option, whenever one presents itself (otherwise, I try to go for the most expedient one). I've grown to realize the value of entertainment is much greater than a few in-game gold or experience points. You'll forget 50 gold before the next session, but you'll remember an awesome choice for years.

Angel Bob
2013-05-10, 08:45 AM
Sounds like you have a crush on his wife by the way.

Appreciation =/= crush.

Jay R
2013-05-10, 09:33 AM
279. Never base a campaign on something you are more excited by than your players are. You may have a great idea for a story based around Andalusian left-handed barbed-wire weaving, but by definition, your players are less interested in it, and less knowledgeable about it, and won't get your clues or references.

The Tyler
2013-05-10, 11:04 AM
Personally, as a player I've found myself increasingly going for what I perceive to be the "awesome" option, whenever one presents itself (otherwise, I try to go for the most expedient one). I've grown to realize the value of entertainment is much greater than a few in-game gold or experience points. You'll forget 50 gold before the next session, but you'll remember an awesome choice for years.

I completely agree and understand. I've met plenty of players who don't match the stereotypes, but there's so many players who do. Which should probably be the next item on the list.

280. When you have players who don't match the stereotypes in this thread, cherish them.

Lightlawbliss
2013-05-10, 03:38 PM
281: Preparing for the next session and playing dnd aren't the only things the DM does with their time.

281a: it isn't even what they do with most of their time.

Notreallyhere77
2013-05-10, 07:12 PM
282. Spend as much time on worldbuilding as you need to. How much you need is something you have to learn with time, and it depends on who you play with. The most important tool in worldbuilding is the imagination of the audience. Give hints, not long-winded explanations that sound like textbooks (unless your players are into that).

283. There is a middle ground between true sandbox and true railroad. It is a wide ground, and it is best to spend your time there. A railroad frustrates your players with lack of freedom. A sandbox frightens them with too much.

284. Don't be afraid to say no; don't be afraid to say yes either. Sometimes the item your players want isn't in the shop. Sometimes the small town does have a high-level caster passing through who will cast a spell for free. Try to make things make sense.

285. If you can't find a rule to support or deny an action or outcome, roll a dice. There will be time to look up rules (or ask forum members) between sessions.


With that out of the way, I want to make something clear.
@Mr Beer and Angel Bob: Becky is my favorite person to play with because we are so much alike in our playstyles. I have been playing with her and Mitch for longer than anyone else in the group (we have a lot of turnover for some reason), and she and I have grown close. I love her, I make no secret of that, but I am not in love with her. She is my friend and I want to see her happy, that's all. So, yes, I do appreciate her, but yes, there is more feeling than that. Now you know.

Jay R
2013-05-12, 08:58 PM
286. What they want right now is an easy way out of danger. But what they will want tomorrow is to have been in danger with no easy way out.

Gligarman2
2013-05-24, 08:14 PM
93. No matter what the character sheet say, there are only 3 PC alignments: Lawful Snotty, Neutral Greedy, and Chaotic Backstabbing.

Doc, Tex, South? You're home!

North_Ranger
2013-05-26, 04:11 PM
287. Never say "No", but "No, but..."

Man on Fire
2013-05-26, 05:08 PM
287. Never say "No", but "No, but..."

287a And even better would be "yes, but..."

288 Sometimes player does something stupid because he doesn't think about the consequences. Sometimes player does something stupid because he doesn't think his character would do anything else. Learn to recognize which is which. Punish them both, reward the latter.

Xervous
2013-05-27, 09:39 AM
289: If you put up more obstacles, traps, and "Woah that monster is probably way over CR for us" type of things, players will tend to go that way with the mentality that risk:reward.

289a: Don't be afraid to break them of this by killing a character, but don't let them fiddle with that enervation trap for two real hours while the plot is in ANOTHER DIRECTION.

Jay R
2013-05-27, 08:55 PM
290. There are players who see the world as a series of activities they can safely and straightforwardly defeat, and there are players who see the world as a dangerous world with life-threatening risks behind every bush. You cannot ruin the same game for both sets. Neither is inherently bad, but know which kind of players you have.

290a. If the term "CR" is a common part of the players' conversation, assume that you have the first group, and plan accordingly. Never count on them deciding to run away from an encounter.

Slipperychicken
2013-05-28, 12:19 AM
287a And even better would be "yes, but..."


287b. Don't always never say no (http://angrydm.com/2012/11/dont-always-never-say-no/), either.

HuskyBoi
2013-05-29, 11:02 PM
288. Regardless of what a PC's intelligence or wisdom score is, it will always be roleplayed as exactly the same as the players intelligence or wisdom. Actually, slightly below the player's intelligence and wisdom. An intelligence 24 wizard is still being played by a regular human, after all.

288.b- the exception to this, as has been previously mentioned, is PCs with an intelligence or wisdom below 10. Expect them to be played as barely capable of sentient thought.

289. Any PC who's design includes the word 'volcano' more than once should be vetoed.

290. Never let a player persuade you that golems can be taught to love.

Fable Wright
2013-05-29, 11:18 PM
289. Any PC who's design includes the word 'volcano' more than once should be vetoed.

I'm not sure where you're coming from with this; a character from a tribal society on a volcanic island could have volcano mentioned multiple times in their backstory, equipment, abstract, and physical description without being disrupting to the game.

HuskyBoi
2013-05-30, 12:58 AM
Oh, we had a campaign once with a Dwarf druid who specialised in volcano-based attacks. In theory it was OK, but we soon worked out this led to a very bad "if you have a hammer, look at every problem like it's a nail" situation where every problem was dealt with by pyroclastic flows.

TuggyNE
2013-05-30, 03:36 AM
Oh, we had a campaign once with a Dwarf druid who specialised in volcano-based attacks. In theory it was OK, but we soon worked out this led to a very bad "if you have a hammer, look at every problem like it's a nail" situation where every problem was dealt with by pyroclastic flows.

I'm still not seeing the problem.

The-Mage-King
2013-05-30, 04:09 AM
Oh, we had a campaign once with a Dwarf druid who specialised in volcano-based attacks. In theory it was OK, but we soon worked out this led to a very bad "if you have a hammer, look at every problem like it's a nail" situation where every problem was dealt with by pyroclastic flows.

...That seems reasonable and logical to me.

HuskyBoi
2013-05-30, 05:06 AM
I suppose what I was getting at, though phrased in too specific a way is:

If a PC has a specialisation, he will try to use that skill in every situation, regardless of whether or not it is appropriate, relevant, or even feasible.

TuggyNE
2013-05-30, 05:19 AM
I suppose what I was getting at, though phrased in too specific a way is:

If a PC has a specialisation, he will try to use that skill in every situation, regardless of whether or not it is appropriate, relevant, or even feasible.

It's probably funniest if you're going with 4e skill challenge misinterpretation. "I roll Arcana to get across the river." :smalltongue:

Darko
2013-05-30, 05:35 PM
i notice you all list many things that you need to know but for me i need tools to use to keep track of things such as turns and attack and items along with spells how ever i can not find anyhting to help me it needs to be able to be download so i can use it offline if anyone knows of any good sites could you message me them

VeliciaL
2013-05-30, 05:47 PM
It's probably funniest if you're going with 4e skill challenge misinterpretation. "I roll Arcana to get across the river." :smalltongue:

What do you mean, Enlarge Spell doesn't apply to Mage Hand? :smalltongue:

Sylthia
2013-05-30, 09:38 PM
Becky is my favorite person to play with because we are so much alike in our playstyles. I have been playing with her and Mitch for longer than anyone else in the group (we have a lot of turnover for some reason), and she and I have grown close. I love her, I make no secret of that, but I am not in love with her. She is my friend and I want to see her happy, that's all. So, yes, I do appreciate her, but yes, there is more feeling than that. Now you know.

That might be part of the problem. If a guy thinks you're into his SO or thinks she likes you more than him, it can cause drama, even if subconsciously.

Lord Torath
2013-05-31, 09:28 AM
289 291) Make a Time Chart that divides the day into hours, turns, rounds, etc. (use graph paper) Keep an original and make copies. Use this to keep track of things like spell durations and how long after the alarm is sounded various forces arrive.

290 292) Make or borrow a calendar. The PC's will eventually want to know what season it is, and how long it will take to cross the uncrossible mountain range.

GreatWyrmGold
2013-07-13, 01:56 PM
That should be 291 and 292.

Baron Of Hell
2013-07-15, 07:12 AM
293) Double check the math on everyone's sheet. If you don't someone is going to double their Stats, ranks, or number of spells. They might also mess up the numbering in a 1000 Things to be beware of thread.

Jay R
2013-07-15, 08:04 AM
294) Have copies of everyone's sheets. Check your copy occasionally.

Lightlawbliss
2013-07-15, 12:27 PM
294.a. check their copies occationally
294.b. keep records of what people SHOULD have gotten.

offtopic: my group has a tendency to add 0s, it has made for some...interesting...conversations.

Ionbound
2013-07-15, 02:21 PM
295) Expect your PCs to solve things in the most insane fashion possible. Then, when they occasionally don't, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Jay R
2013-07-16, 08:51 AM
295) Expect your PCs to solve things in the most insane fashion possible. Then, when they occasionally don't, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

295a) You don't have to build a way to escape the death trap, since they aren't going to escape your way anyhow.

TheFamilarRaven
2014-02-07, 02:12 AM
296) If one of your major villains enters into dialogue with the party makes sure said villain
-Has an evil plan that makes sense.
-Has a motivation that makes sense
-Is imposing and can beat any of the PC's in one on one combat
-And perceives the party as a threat.
If a villain is not all of the above he/she will either be 1) Ridiculed by the party 2) Fascinated by the party bard and suggested into removing his/her magic items 3) Both

297) Don't be surprised if the party gets more done in one session, then any previous session, if a certain party member happens to be absent that day ... I.e one murderhobo spoils the bunch, as the saying goes.

298) PC's will, without fail, make illogical purchases with their wealth. Given the choice between buying a Tome of Stat Boosting, and a floating castle with a fountain of ever-flowing beer, a PC will choose the latter 99% of the time.

298 a) Bonus points if its some item from the Arms and Equipment Guide, like a submarine ....

299) Never underestimate gag items. Potable holes can be nifty. And if nothing else, PC's will use gag items to embarrass BBEG's.

300) Use the Force

Sudain
2014-02-10, 09:48 PM
I'm back, and I've had time to read all of your replies.

@Everyone: Thank you. You guys are the best. I shouldn't hold back with enemies tailored to his weaknesses. I just remember how much I hated it when he did it to me as DM and how I felt it was unfair (though the way he did it was by not preparing spells in advance for a magical duel - not the same).
So I guess the plan is to bring up enemies from his past (he should have a lot), and find ways to make his flight ability impossible or irrelevant. Then follow up with some clever traps (suicidal "assassins" with cursed loot comes to mind), and plenty of flying swarms and hungry wyverns for random encounters.
Let it be known that I'm not trying to kill his character (though I will be representing people who are), just keep him occupied while I weave a tale of political intrigue, daring jewel-heists, and an impending planar invasion for everyone else. Even the other powergamer cares enough about the story to ask who needs to die and in what order..

That makes sense for the powerful guys to stop this genocidal elf-hater. But what about the little villages with no power? Are they just going to sit around and let this maniac into their town unchecked? DM mode: If they have time to prepare for his arrival - let everyone flee. Have it be a ghost town that was teaming with life and business just days before. Out of towners should be absolutely bewildered why the entire town just packed up and left as if nothing else was more important. Orders unfinished, looting in the streets, etc...

If they can't - have peaceful sane people have extreme reactions to this deranged, depraved villain and his morally bankrupt accomplices. Screaming in elvish and running away at first sight. Locking themselves in houses. Burning the house themselves rather than be taken alive. Let the party see mothers clutching their children tightly to their chest as she slits their throats softly whispering in their ears, "I am sorry. I know it hurts now honey, but it'll be okay. This truly is the for the best thing I can do for you. I will join you in just a minute so be brave for me. I love you so much. More than you will ever know."

Note: I am fine with describing things like these - know your group. The idea is rob the party of the opportunities that come with the townsfolk and taint their reputations by being associated with a psychopath. That should jump-start a discussion within the group about what is acceptable behavior, and how bad behavior should be curbed.

Sith_Happens
2014-02-11, 08:04 AM
301) At least one of the PCs will be a nymphomaniac. No exceptions.

Jay R
2014-02-11, 11:05 AM
302. When the players ask for something - an item, a skill, a Feat, whatever - they are not planning to use it for what it usually does, they're planning the weirdest thing it could possibly be used for.