Belkar's prophecy (the other one)

[VanaGalen]

The one that he will cause the death of Roy, Miko, Windstriker, Oracle or V. In the light of the recent events, I think it might be a bit scary. Considering the 5th from the end panel in Belkar's refund request (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html) and the fact that V is at the moment alone and distracted in the tunnels... Do you think V might be in danger?

[Vinsfeld]

Belkar actually killed the Oracle (but he got better).

[Wizard]

If he was going to actually cause the death of V, wouldn't the Oracle have said that first instead of making stuff up?

Plus he already killed the Oracle.

[sam79]

As far as I remember, while the prophesy was certainly fulfilled with his killing of the Oracle, that doesn't actually exclude the possibility of Belkar killing the other people listed.

[VanaGalen]

It's true he did kill the Oracle, but the whole thing was set up by the kobold way in advance, perhaps only because he wanted to screw up Belkar's Mark of Justice. So maybe the Oracle didn't want to give him the valid reason for refusing his refund request, even if there was one.
I know that prophecy had already come true, but on the other hand - would the Oracle have mentioned V at all if Belkar had nothing to do with hir death? That's why I'm a bit worried about V.

[Morty]

It's not the first time someone has come up with it and it won't be the last.
You might notice that the Oracle's "explanations" get progressively more unlikely. The last one he managed to finish was a claim that Belkar caused the death of Miko's horse because it was trapped in the Celestial Realms after Miko's death. Going by this progression, the reason why V's death would be Belkar's fault would have been undoubtedly even more outlandish.

[toughluck]

One does not exclude the other -- Belkar may still cause the death of someone from the list but still alive -- be it Roy or Vaarsuvius, since the question was not: "Do I get to cause death of one of these and one alone: [list goes here]?"
We'll wait and see.

[ella ventic]

I know that prophecy had already come true, but on the other hand - would the Oracle have mentioned V at all if Belkar had nothing to do with hir death? That's why I'm a bit worried about V.

The Oracle didn't mention V; Belkar did: "Do I get to cause the death of any of the following: Miko, Miko's stupid horse, Roy, Vaarsuvius, or you?" All the Oracle said was "Yes."

And while it's true that Belkar may still cause the death of someone else on that list, I think it's a mistake to see any of those as more likely than any other death/manner of death. You can think of it this way: Belkar actually asked five questions; the Oracle only had to answer/pay attention to one (and Belkar's phrasing meant he didn't have to say which).

Will Belkar cause the death of the Oracle? Yes.
How about Miko? (not acknowledged as a question, so no information)
...Windstriker? (no information)
...Roy? (no information)
...Vaarsuvius? (no information)

I don't see any of the other four scenarios being any more likely to happen just because Belkar asked a question about them.* Of course, they're not less likely, either. There is simply no information on them.

*Well, I mean, we do know for sure that Belkar would have liked to kill V and Roy, but I imagine we knew that already? :smallsmile: And that's just about Belkar's internal opinions, not about the Oracle or the prophecy at all, is what I'm saying.

Edit: and after all of that, I realize that you're not talking about the first Oracle visit, but the second one, where the Oracle DID mention V. I'm an idiot, please ignore me. :smallredface:

[VanaGalen]

You might notice that the Oracle's "explanations" get progressively more unlikely. The last one he managed to finish was a claim that Belkar caused the death of Miko's horse because it was trapped in the Celestial Realms after Miko's death. Going by this progression, the reason why V's death would be Belkar's fault would have been undoubtedly even more outlandish.

Actually, the Oracle responds in the same order the question was asked in panel 4th, so I'm not sure if we can deduce anything from it. It's true that from the first 3 characters, the explanation of Windstriker's "death" is by far the biggest stretch. However, I think it makes more sense saying that Belkar caused Miko's death (by undermining her trust in the OotS), than him causing Roy's death by giving him the ring of jumping (as Roy would've been killed by Xykon anyway).

As for V, we'll probably never know what the Oracle was going to say about him, but it might have been "As for the elf, do you really think that you traveling with him for so long wouldn't have some impact on the elf's life and therefore, the time and conditions of hir death?"
But it also might have been something else, and given the fact that both V and Belkferatu are at the moment lost and alone in the same dungeon makes me uneasy about V (who is my most beloved character in this comic, so yes, I'm not comfortable with the fact (s)he will probably bump into that horrid halfling in a few strips :smallfrown:)


The Oracle didn't mention V; Belkar did: "Do I get to cause the death of any of the following: Miko, Miko's stupid horse, Roy, Vaarsuvius, or you?" All the Oracle said was "Yes."

Yes, the prophecy itself wasn't so bad, but I'm worried about what the Oracle said when he refused Belkar's refund request (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html). He then described every character in the list separately, and even though his arguments were not really convincing, every other person on the list died. That's why it's a bit alarming that V's name was mentioned at all.

[Snails]

It's not the first time someone has come up with it and it won't be the last.
You might notice that the Oracle's "explanations" get progressively more unlikely. The last one he managed to finish was a claim that Belkar caused the death of Miko's horse because it was trapped in the Celestial Realms after Miko's death. Going by this progression, the reason why V's death would be Belkar's fault would have been undoubtedly even more outlandish.

My spidey sense says that Belkar will "cause" the death of all of the above. But in each case the connection will be more indirect, thus arguably unimportant except as a fun and silly kind of foreshadowing.

I would call this Chekov's Squirt Gun. The Giant is telegraphing the deaths, and the tongue in cheek manner will should view the question.

[Cizak]

The Oracle didn't mention V[...]

"And as for the elf-" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)

[Morty]

Actually, the Oracle responds in the same order the question was asked in panel 4th, so I'm not sure if we can deduce anything from it. It's true that from the first 3 characters, the explanation of Windstriker's "death" is by far the biggest stretch. However, I think it makes more sense saying that Belkar caused Miko's death (by undermining her trust in the OotS), than him causing Roy's death by giving him the ring of jumping (as Roy would've been killed by Xykon anyway).

As for V, we'll probably never know what the Oracle was going to say about him, but it might have been "As for the elf, do you really think that you traveling with him for so long wouldn't have some impact on the elf's life and therefore, the time and conditions of hir death?"
But it also might have been something else, and given the fact that both V and Belkferatu are at the moment lost and alone in the same dungeon makes me uneasy about V (who is my most beloved character in this comic, so yes, I'm not comfortable with the fact (s)he will probably bump into that horrid halfling in a few strips :smallfrown:)

If the Oracle knew that Belkar would actually cause Vaarsuvius' death in a direct manner and not through some contrived leaps of logic, don't you think he would have mentioned it sooner - before offering his far-fetched explanations of how he'd killed Miko and her horse? It might have saved him from Belkar's dagger.

[VanaGalen]

If the Oracle knew that Belkar would actually cause Vaarsuvius' death in a direct manner and not through some contrived leaps of logic, don't you think he would have mentioned it sooner - before offering his far-fetched explanations of how he'd killed Miko and her horse? It might have saved him from Belkar's dagger.

The Oracle definitely had known in advance that Belkar would stab him. He had many options of using that knowledge, possibly also to avoid being killed. Instead he took pains to paint that huge "LickMy..." sign, not to mention founding the kobold village with sufficient population. That makes me think he didn't actually avoid being stabbed. All he wanted was to make Belkar miserable by activating his Mark of Justice.

Also, I don't think it's likely that Belkar would simply kill V, but I'm afraid he would in some indirect way cause V's demise, like he did with the others.

[NerdyKris]

My spidey sense says that Belkar will "cause" the death of all of the above. But in each case the connection will be more indirect, thus arguably unimportant except as a fun and silly kind of foreshadowing.

He already has "caused" the death of 4 out of 5. V's would have presumably been some outlandish philosophical "death" if stated. As the Oracle said, there's a way to pin the first three deaths on Belkar in roundabout fashions. And he was directly killed by Belkar, fulfilling the prophecy in a direct and unambiguous manner. The other three, and possibly fourth have happened. Whether or not they actually count as him causing the death is irrelevent. The question allowed for anywhere from one to five deaths. And the Oracle stated he was referring to previous events for the first three.

So really, your "spidey sense" is just reading what the Oracle himself said in the strip linked by the OP.


The Oracle definitely had known in advance that Belkar would stab him. He had many options of using that knowledge, possibly also to avoid being killed. Instead he took pains to paint that huge "LickMy..." sign, not to mention founding the kobold village with sufficient population. That makes me think he didn't actually avoid being stabbed. All he wanted was to make Belkar miserable by activating his Mark of Justice.

Also, I don't think it's likely that Belkar would simply kill V, but I'm afraid he would in some indirect way cause V's demise, like he did with the others.

Precisely. He has money and the ability to see the future. He also stated in the strip he was raised in that he schedules these rezzes in advance. There's no point to avoiding getting killed when he can just be raised after, especially if he can deliver a big "screw you" to the guy that killed him in the process. Or do you really think he just "happened" to have a village called "Lickmyorangeballshalfling" outside his tower? CLEARLY he built it precisely for when Belkar came back.

I can't believe anyone didn't realize that. It was pretty much directly stated multiple times. :smallsigh:

[Morty]

Also, I don't think it's likely that Belkar would simply kill V, but I'm afraid he would in some indirect way cause V's demise, like he did with the others.

He did? News to me. Belkar didn't cause the deaths of Roy or Miko and I certainly hope you don't consider the Oracle's explanation as to why he caused Windstriker's "death" to be valid.

[137beth]

Also, the oracle himself said he didn't think Belkar caused the death of any of the non-kobold people on the list, he just thought it was worth a shot. Also, I thought there was a quote from the giant which ALSO said he didn't think Belkar actually caused Roy's death.

[Blue Ghost]

Could be that Belkar's moral influence on Vaarsuvius was part of what led him to make the pact with the IFCC, which will lead to her loss of her soul ("death"). Already been fulfilled, and I wouldn't say that's any more far-fetched than the explanation given for Windstriker.

[VanaGalen]

I'm not saying that Belkar did cause the the death of those 3, but all the people (and horse) on Belkar's list have one thing in common: they actually died. All except V. Judging from Belkar's question alone, it would mean nothing, but there is this second conversation in which the Oracle starts talking about V in the same manner he talked about the others. And that part alone seems alarming to me.

Another thing is that the other deaths happened with Belkar not directly causing them (except the Oracle of course), but he was around, he took part in the events that ended up in killing these people (and horse). It seems the prophecy about Belkar's own death might be coming true at this point, so I thought that if V was in any danger, it would happen before Belkar is gone for good. It's rather hunch than some definite proof, but actually that's why I thought of the previous prophecy at all.

Also, given the current state of events (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0870.html) I think it's highly probable that Belkar and V are going to find each other soon. And then all sorts of things might happen.

[Kish]

I'm not saying that Belkar did cause the the death of those 3, but all the people (and horse) on Belkar's list have one thing in common: they actually died.
Windstriker did not die.

If you define "no longer gets summoned to the Prime Material Plane by Miko" as dead, you might as well define "divorced" as dead, at which point suddenly Vaarsuvius did "die."

[VanaGalen]

Windstriker did not die.

If you define "no longer gets summoned to the Prime Material Plane by Miko" as dead, you might as well define "divorced" as dead, at which point suddenly Vaarsuvius did "die."

The Oracle seems to think "to die" = "to be gone from this world" and that's what I meant by saying Windstriker is "dead". Certainly the horse is out of the story now.

[Kish]

Uh. You seem to be under the impression the Oracle's trolling Belkar was sincere rather than...trolling Belkar.