Troll's Rend and tweaking Special Qualities

[hymer]

If a troll hits with both claw attacks, it latches onto the opponent’s body and tears the flesh. This attack automatically deals an additional 2d6+9 points of damage.

Here. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/troll.htm)

Do you take that to mean that the troll must hit the same opponent twice with its claws, or that if it strikes two different people with its claws, it may rend one of them? Or something other entirely?
The troll is most likely to down one opponent before moving on to the next, and so attack the same target with both claws. But it may down someone with one claw and then hit another with the remaining claw.

On the tweaking: If you take away the troll's regeneration, and give it a Spell Resistance of 10+HD, and also +2 bonus to all saves vs. magical effects, should that alter the troll's CR? How do you feel that balances? I'd be trying to make it slightly more caster-aggravating and melee-friendly without actually altering the overall difficulty.

Edit: While we're at it, why do trolls have Track as a feat, when they have -1 Survival?

[Deaxsa]

i think you have to hit one person with both claw attacks in one round for the rend to occur.

it depends on how much of your party is spellcasters

because they have the scent ability

[hymer]

Thanks for answering!

Regarding rend: It seems to me to be slightly awkwardly worded. A slight alteration to the first sentence in either direction would clarify it. I wonder how others read it, so that's one vote in one direction.

Regarding party composition: Let's assume something like the usually assumed number: About equal amounts of man in a can, skill monkey, buffer, and blaster.
CR isn't at all a perfect system, but it's what we got.

I guess it makes sense about scent.

[KillianHawkeye]

I agree that it takes both attacks on a single target to trigger Rend, but I admit that the wording is vague and it's mostly a common sense ruling.

[Deaxsa]

assuming a standard party, i would say that the CR would go down by one. regeneration makes you nigh-impossible to kill if people don't know you have that ability. i mean, all damage is now nonlethal. that's really, really strong. even without the healing per round bit.

^imho.

[Bakkan]

Deaxsa speaks truth.

I also would alter the wording to make it that the troll has to hit one creature with two attacks. However, if the troll somehow made two attacks on each of two different creatures, he should get rend damage on both of them. (A troll totemist would be devastating)

[hymer]

@ KillianHawkeye: Thanks, it seems we're all in agreement.

@ Deaxsa: Okay, I'll stack something on top of them that makes their touch AC a little closer to their normal AC and leave it at that. Nobody ever complained that they got too much XP from downing a monster. Thanks again.

@ Bakkan: You got a point there. :smallsmile: Thanks for answering.