Any ideas on how to obtain info on a uniquely made item?

[Delirium Darkan]

In a campaign I am playing I have aquired an item called a Daemon's Tear. It is described as such:
It appears as a softball sized saphire with a glass band around the center. What it actually is is a heart of a deamon prince wrapped in the halo of an archangel.

So the problem here is that is all I know. I thought that maybe I could summon something to give me some info for the fact that my DM said after I asked him "how do I know what it does?" He responded "just don't scry on it *meanacing laugh*"

So any I deas of what monster I could summon or other ways of getting knowledge on this item? Current character is a 14th level wizard with banned schools of necromancy and illusion.

[Deaxsa]

you could go find a bard, and try and have him cast Legend Lore (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/legendLore.htm). heck you could do it yourself, if you know the spell.

it may also simply be something the DM is going to have you learn more about at a later date. if it turns out it's a time bomb or something, and the DM is discouraging you from looking into it, then find a new DM.

[Delirium Darkan]

it may also simply be something the DM is going to have you learn more about at a later date. if it turns out it's a time bomb or something, and the DM is discouraging you from looking into it, then find a new DM.

No, he knows what it does. He said it is almost as powerful as a weapon of sin (weapons we are trying to aquire to complete the campaign)

[Slipperychicken]

I know this may sound stupid, but have you already tried using Identify on it?

If you know any fancy loremaster-type guys, you could bring it to one of them.

For the fun option, "Activate Blindly" is a DC 25 Use Magic Device check. So pass it to the Bard or Rogue, and Learn as you go :smallbiggrin:

[thatryanguy]

Bring it to a temple and pay them to identify it, if no-one in your party has access to that itself? Alternatively a high knowledge religion or planes could help.

[TuggyNE]

I know this may sound stupid, but have you already tried using Identify on it?

Identify doesn't work on an artifact, and this is an artifact if I've ever heard of one. (Before you ask, analyze dweomer doesn't do the job either.)

[Slipperychicken]

Identify doesn't work on an artifact, and this is an artifact if I've ever heard of one. (Before you ask, analyze dweomer doesn't do the job either.)

Identify is only 100gp, and the PCs don't even know what this thing is or does. Also, you never know until you try -it could just be a major magic item. I repeat my support for attempting to "Activate Blindly".

[Gavinfoxx]

Analyze Dweomer doesn't work on Artifacts... so bring it to the Bard College!

Or any group of people that has Bardic Lore. Savants, Cloistered Clerics, Bards, Loremasters, Rilkan Rogues, Ardent Dillatantes, etc.

From Lists of Stuff:


Bardic Knowledge
Bard 1
Troubadour of Stars 1, ECL 9, Book of Exalted Deeds
Loredelver 1, ecl 8, Races of Destiny
Rogue 3, Rilkan racial substitution level, Magic of Incarnum
Harper Mage ?, Magic of Faerun
Harper Priest ?, Magic of Faerun


stacks with bard levels
Moonstar Agent, ecl 6, City of Splendors: Waterdeep (FR) - stacks with anything that functions like bardic knowledge
Sublime Chord, ecl 11, Complete Arcane
Fochlucan Lyrist, ecl 11, Complete Adventurer
Ollam, ecl 8, Complete Adventurer
Troubadour of Stars 1, ECL 9, Book of Exalted Deeds
Loredelver 1, ecl 8, Races of Destiny
Ardent Dilettante 1, ecl 6, Planar Handbook
Merchant Prince 1, ecl 6, Power of Faerun


functionally the same as "bardic knowledge", but called something else
Loremaster 2, ecl 9
Ollam 1, ecl 8, Complete Adventurer
Cloistered Cleric, variant class, Unearthed Arcana
Ardent Dilettante 1, ecl 6, Planar Handbook
Tainted Scholar 3, ecl 8, Heroes of Horror
Dragon Descendant 2, ecl 7, Dragon Magic, "Ancentral Lore", see text
Primal Scholar 1, ecl 8, Eberron: Secrets of Xen'drik, "Xed'Drik Lore"
Psion 1 (Seer), Mind's Eye expanded class (link), "psionic knowledge"
Merchant Prince 1, ecl 6, Power of Faerun, "mercantile knowledge"
Court Herald 1, ecl 8, Power of Faerun, "Lore"
Paragnostic Apostle, ecl 3?, Complete Champion, "Lore"
Celestial Mystic 5, ecl?, Book of Exalted Deeds, see text
Prophet of Erathaol 1, ecl 8, Book of Exalted Deeds, see text
Beast Heart Adept 2, ecl 7, Dungeonscape, "Monster Lore", see text


Basically, find any of those sorts of people and have them try to ID it!

Also, Cloistered Clerics can Identify without needing a pearl, so they can do that cheaper than usual...

[JeminiZero]

Perhaps try to use the Gloves of object Reading? It might not tell everything but how the owner gained and lost the item might provide some clue on what it does or how to use it.

[Pickford]

In a campaign I am playing I have aquired an item called a Daemon's Tear. It is described as such:
It appears as a softball sized saphire with a glass band around the center. What it actually is is a heart of a deamon prince wrapped in the halo of an archangel.

So the problem here is that is all I know. I thought that maybe I could summon something to give me some info for the fact that my DM said after I asked him "how do I know what it does?" He responded "just don't scry on it *meanacing laugh*"

So any I deas of what monster I could summon or other ways of getting knowledge on this item? Current character is a 14th level wizard with banned schools of necromancy and illusion.

You could use Contact Other Plane to play 20 questions at the risk of having your int & cha reduced to 8 for a few weeks.

Alternatively, Arcane Sight to figure out what kind of spells it's operating with. You could use that information to help on a castings of Legend Lore.

Edit: Identify won't work on Artifacts, nor Analyze Dweomer...

[ArcturusV]

How about going at it another way? You know what the item in question is made of. Try collecting it's components, putting a copy together, and figuring out just what sort of magics naturally take to the item as you assemble it or the sort of rituals required to craft one naturally suggesting spells inserted at a particular time? Might require quite a few skill checks and such. But this could be an adventure in its own right, and hey... top level success means you get TWO of the MacGuffins.

[Baroncognito]

Any ideas on how to obtain info on a uniquely made item?

Unique up on it.

[Slipperychicken]

You could use Contact Other Plane to play 20 questions at the risk of having your int & cha reduced to 8 for a few weeks.


No risk if you Take 10 on the Int check.

[Randomguy]

Try Planar Binding an Astral Deva or, at level 15, a planetar and ask them very nicely.
If that doesn't work, try an Arcanaloth.
If that doesn't work, try an Elemental Weird when you hit level 15. They're bound to know. Risky as heck to bind, though.

If you'd rather summon than bind, then you could ask an eladrin or a bone devil.


Also; try checking a library: Either a wizard's or wizard guild's library, a bardic library or maybe even a library on one of the good or evil aligned planes. If its an artifact it should have some info on it.

[Delirium Darkan]

So I guess I have to give some background as to how I aquired such a unique item. At first I had a ring that I found out was the halo of an archangel which I could summon once every six days. Then I battled the balor with my party and destroyed it. On the finishing blow the deamon prince's heart which was a saphire flung sizzling across the room. I proceed to pick up this heart with the ringed hand. Once the ring touched the sapphire, the ring transfered from my hand and clasped around the sapphire.

So this item was created to be in existence right there and then. So no lore to look for if I were to go look for it as far as I know.

[ArcturusV]

Then I still suggest my method. Recreate the item's creation. Give it to random guys with low Wisdom Scores and tell them to shout random words, poke it, wave it around, etc and if they do it just right they'll get Free No Monkey's Paw Wishes.

... wait a few days and observe results.

[Gildedragon]

There's bound to be lore on both the ring and the sapphire so there's that.
And high int fellers may have theories of what this'd do.
High int low wis fellers may even tinker at it for you while you wait two or three continents over.

[Pickford]

No risk if you Take 10 on the Int check.

Except you can't take 10 on it. Taking 10 implies you do the action ~20 times and will get at least a 10. Which means if you failed once you can't cast it again at all for a week.

[Delirium Darkan]

Would "limited wish" do anything for me?

[Pickford]

Would "limited wish" do anything for me?

Really depends on how powerful the DM judges your intended effect to be.

[RFLS]

Except you can't take 10 on it. Taking 10 implies you do the action ~20 times and will get at least a 10. Which means if you failed once you can't cast it again at all for a week.

That's taking 20, dude. Taking 10 is simply taking your time to do it in an okay fashion. Relevant text. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Using_Skills#Taking_10)

[Slipperychicken]

Except you can't take 10 on it. Taking 10 implies you do the action ~20 times and will get at least a 10. Which means if you failed once you can't cast it again at all for a week.

You're thinking of Take 20, which works as you describe. Take 10 only needs one attempt, when the character is not threatened or distracted.

Edit: Ninja'd...

[Onerai]

Even given your circumstances, IMO the Legend Lore spell should still work since it's a spell specifically included in the game to find out about artifacts and other plot devices.

True, conventional lore may not tell you anything since it just got created now... but you should be able to Legend Lore either the item or its component items to get some inkling as to how they have interacted.

[Telonius]

So we know that the DM has suggested that Scrying would not be a good idea. That typically would mean that the sensor is in a place that has something or someone who could figure out immediately that it was being scried upon, and rain down some sort of retribution on you. Or, that the demon prince would be able to return if he (or his allies) find out where the heart is.

I'd suggest not summoning the archangel until you figure out exactly what's happened.

[Slipperychicken]

So I guess I have to give some background as to how I aquired such a unique item. At first I had a ring that I found out was the halo of an archangel which I could summon once every six days. Then I battled the balor with my party and destroyed it. On the finishing blow the deamon prince's heart which was a saphire flung sizzling across the room. I proceed to pick up this heart with the ringed hand. Once the ring touched the sapphire, the ring transfered from my hand and clasped around the sapphire.

So this item was created to be in existence right there and then. So no lore to look for if I were to go look for it as far as I know.

Have you tried taking the ring off the sapphire?

[Pickford]

You're thinking of Take 20, which works as you describe. Take 10 only needs one attempt, when the character is not threatened or distracted.

Edit: Ninja'd...

If having your int/cha reduced to 8 for a week isn't a threat, nothing is.

[Delirium Darkan]

Have you tried taking the ring off the sapphire?

Won't budge.

[Telonius]

(Also, I think the moral of the story is that you shouldn't pick up anything that a Balor throws at you).

[Slipperychicken]

If having your int/cha reduced to 8 for a week isn't a threat, nothing is.

A character may Take 10 on a Disguise check, even when he knows failure might have extreme consequences for him, and he may Take 10 on Search and Disable Device checks when he knows failure means being caught in lethal traps.

Examples like those illustrate that the level of distraction and immediate danger needed to prevent Taking 10 is much greater than that posed by a Contact Other Plane spell.

[TuggyNE]

A character may Take 10 on a Disguise check, even when he knows failure might have extreme consequences for him, and he may Take 10 on Search and Disable Device checks when he knows failure means being caught in lethal traps.

Examples like those illustrate that the level of distraction and immediate danger needed to prevent Taking 10 is much greater than that posed by a Contact Other Plane spell.

Further, a character may explicitly take 10 on a Climb check, despite the ever-present danger of falling to their death.

In short, being threatened by consequences of failure of the check itself is not sufficient to make taking 10 impossible; however, if failure has lasting consequences, taking 20 doesn't work — that's one of several important differences between the two.