[3.5] Help A Newbie Wizard With Strategy

[Zale]

Thanks for looking at this thread!

I recently started a 3.5 Campaign (One of my first).

I thought I'd ask for some strategy help for a tenth level Wizard.

Of course, my DM has some rule misconceptions/house rules in effect, as well as being someone who thinks ToB is utterly overpowered.

My DM thinks you receive the bonus spell slots due to high intelligence from level one. All of them. Even the level nine spell slots, if you have a high enough Int.

I tried to persuade him otherwise, but I'm rather desperate for a group and didn't want to press the issue.

He also has never heard of WBL, so we all got 500g as level ten characters.

On the plus side, the method by which he rolls stats means the entire part has better stats than some monsters. My Wizard has an Intelligence Score of 32 straight off the bat.

And My DM appears to make Wizards more like Sorcerers, in that, so long as I tell him I prepared spells, I can cast any I like.

This would be better if I didn't think it'd be impossible to gain more than the number of spells he allowed me to start off with.

He thinks my spell choices are simply terrible.

Now, taking this all into account..

Spell List


First Level

Charm Person
Disguise Self
Enlarge Person
Orb of Fire, Lesser

Second Level

Protection From Arrows
Web
Detect Thoughts
Blur
Rope Trick

Third Level

Dispel Magic
Suggestion
Fireball
Major Image

Fourth Level

Polymorph
Scrying
Charm Monster
Thunder Lance (SpC)

Fifth Level

Overland Flight
Baleful Polymorph

Sixth Level

Planar Binding
Permanent Image

Seventh Level

Control Weather
Teleport, Greater

Eight Level

Shout, Greater

Ninth Level

Dominate Monster


First thing that comes to mind, looking back over my spell list, is forgetting Magic Circle Against Evil and Dimensional Lock for Planar Binding. Dominate Monster should suffice, no?

The main reason I'm asking is because those of my group who have played before seem aghast that I failed to be a blaster wizzie.

I'd like to show them I can be a contributing member of the group without raining lighting on everything.

So, suggestions?

[ArcturusV]

Well, you already have Polymorph. So consider that a win. Transform yourself into a Baalor or a Firbolg or something, then laugh at everyone after you use Alter Self to look like a human anyway... but have enough physical stats that you can throw a freight train a hundred yards and shrug off a mountain falling on top of you.

As a wizard the WBL doesn't quite hurt you as much as everyone else. Kinda sucks. I won't deny it. But you also have enough that you should be able to buy your Dimensional Anchor and Magic Circle against Evil spells if you want in scroll form and transcribe them to your spellbook. On top of anything else you think you missed out on.

Honestly you hit a pretty good selection there. Just missed a few "obvious" ones like Grease, Wind Wall, Walls of X, etc. You're not in bad shape at all.

EDIT: To add on, there's four categories I list spells in on my own spellbooks. These are:

1) Spells that completely negate an encounter. A single casting of one of these spells wins you the day. Note that this is very rarely a Fireball or Meteorswarm, it's usually Illusions, Divinations, and Enchantments in my experience.

2) Spells that neutralize a significant portion of the encounter. These you have, it would be things like Charm, Suggestion, Dominate.

3) Spells that handicap a single target into uselessness. This is things like a lot of necromancy spells, stat draining, Force Cages, etc.

4) Spells that have a minor effect on an encounter. This would be fireballs.

[Dr Bwaa]

Ridiculous interpretations of the rules

Wow... you must be desperate. There's no chance of talking your DM into seeing reason, is there (especially about wealth... yikes. I'd hate to be the party fighter...)?

I guess if spells are going to be literally all you have going for you, it's just as well that he's breaking the everloving hell out of your class. Frankly, given the wealth restrictions, it's pretty unlikely that you all live through a single "appropriate" encounter, and there's basically no way you won't overshadow the non-magic users. But I digress.

It's tough to tell what spells you actually should be getting, since the power level of the rest of your party is going to be staggeringly low. Some brief thoughts:

Do not rely on Dominate for Planar Binding. If the thing makes the save, you now have an uncontrollable, PO'd demon on your hands. If you're going the Planar Binding route (kind of questionable anyway given the party--this will make you overshadow them), you need that Magic Circle somehow.
You've got a lot of illusion. Is that your focus? If it isn't, I'd cut back somewhat.
Given that you're basically a sorcerer and you don't think you'll be gaining more spells, Permanent Image is basically worthless. If your spell list is really going to be this limited, play like a sorcerer, not a wizard: only take spells that you're going to be able to use most of the time.
Frankly I'd focus on buffing and battlefield control. It's a good caster role anyway, made even more important by the fact that your party's gonna need all the help they can get.
If you optimize Buffing/BFC, you can carry encounters without looking like you're overshadowing the party. This is good. In your situation, even the low-level buffs are going to be a big deal, because no one in your party can afford wondrous items for stat increases or any magical weapons at all.
This handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19873034/Treantmonks_guide_to_Wizards:_Being_a_God) is, afaik, the quintessential one. It has a lot of good spell lists to help you pick the best possible buffs/BFC spells at each level.

Hope some of this helps. Other Playgrounders will assuredly provide you with some more specific ideas.

[Zale]

Well, you already have Polymorph. So consider that a win. Transform yourself into a Baalor or a Firbolg or something, then laugh at everyone after you use Alter Self to look like a human anyway... but have enough physical stats that you can throw a freight train a hundred yards and shrug off a mountain falling on top of you.


I was considering using that to buff the Barbarian, but I think his stats might be better than anything I could turn him into.

Seriously.



As a wizard the WBL doesn't quite hurt you as much as everyone else. Kinda sucks. I won't deny it. But you also have enough that you should be able to buy your Dimensional Anchor and Magic Circle against Evil spells if you want in scroll form and transcribe them to your spellbook. On top of anything else you think you missed out on.


I'm worried the DM might not let us fight Dimensional Anchor.

He said a seventh level spell was rare and hard to find, so an eight would be worse..



Honestly you hit a pretty good selection there. Just missed a few "obvious" ones like Grease, Wind Wall, Walls of X, etc. You're not in bad shape at all.

I'm just curious as to what spells could be useful to, say, massacre a Bandit Camp.

[Dr Bwaa]

I'm just curious as to what spells could be useful to, say, massacre a Bandit Camp.

Well, you can do this, but it's gonna be ugly if your goal is to participate but not at a way higher level than everyone else. If you don't care about that second part, just take Meteor Swarm (Note: don't actually take MS as your only 9th-level spell). Or take Shapechange (you should take this anyway), turn into anything you want with 10ish HD (*cough*beholder*cough*), and massacre them all in melee by yourself while your party looks on impotently.

[Zale]

Wow... you must be desperate. There's no chance of talking your DM into seeing reason, is there (especially about wealth... yikes. I'd hate to be the party fighter...)?


I know. The DM did give people some slightly magical weapons, but still.

My response to the money was simple shock.

Especially since it was going to be 300g at first.

Then I responded with..

"What."

And he upped it to 500g and said that was an excellent number.

This is somewhat countered by the insane stats he gave everyone. I have more Con than a Balor.

Than a Balor.

I shudder to imagine what the Barbarian has.



I guess if spells are going to be literally all you have going for you, it's just as well that he's breaking the everloving hell out of your class. Frankly, given the wealth restrictions, it's pretty unlikely that you all live through a single "appropriate" encounter, and there's basically no way you won't overshadow the non-magic users. But I digress.


I was afraid of that at first, so I tried to pick spells based on vague whim, mixed with a few I knew would be useful.



It's tough to tell what spells you actually should be getting, since the power level of the rest of your party is going to be staggeringly low. Some brief thoughts:

Do not rely on Dominate for Planar Binding. If the thing makes the save, you now have an uncontrollable, PO'd demon on your hands. If you're going the Planar Binding route (kind of questionable anyway given the party--this will make you overshadow them), you need that Magic Circle somehow.
You've got a lot of illusion. Is that your focus? If it isn't, I'd cut back somewhat.
Given that you're basically a sorcerer and you don't think you'll be gaining more spells, Permanent Image is basically worthless. If your spell list is really going to be this limited, play like a sorcerer, not a wizard: only take spells that you're going to be able to use most of the time.
Frankly I'd focus on buffing and battlefield control. It's a good caster role anyway, made even more important by the fact that your party's gonna need all the help they can get.
If you optimize Buffing/BFC, you can carry encounters without looking like you're overshadowing the party. This is good. In your situation, even the low-level buffs are going to be a big deal, because no one in your party can afford wondrous items for stat increases or any magical weapons at all.
This handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19873034/Treantmonks_guide_to_Wizards:_Being_a_God) is, afaik, the quintessential one. It has a lot of good spell lists to help you pick the best possible buffs/BFC spells at each level.


It's a touch late for me to change spells, but I can try to look for more magic. I just doubt I'll be to successful for the higher level spells.

It's rather conflicting. Part of me knows that attempting to be powerful will make the other characters less relevant..

But it's barely been one session, and both the DM, another player and the DM's friend have expected me to be a fireball slinging squishy wizard. I kind of want to prove that Lightning Bolts are not remotely necessary to make a useful Wizard.

That's the main reason I'm considering Planar Binding something nasty and sending it into the Bandit Camp we're supposed to be fighting.

Considering the DC of my Dominate Monster spell is 30, I doubt much can break free.

I picked up Illusion because I thought it might be handy, or at least amusing. Part of me is wishing I'd simply picked up Shadow Invocation instead, or just gone with a few more useful spells..



Hope some of this helps. Other Playgrounders will assuredly provide you with some more specific ideas.

[Randomguy]

It's a touch late for me to change spells, but I can try to look for more magic. I just doubt I'll be to successful for the higher level spells.


It's a shame that you're too late to change spells: You're missing a few really good ones:
Shapechange, polymorph any object, shield, mage armour, Summon monster, haste, and so on.



But it's barely been one session, and both the DM, another player and the DM's friend have expected me to be a fireball slinging squishy wizard. I kind of want to prove that Lightning Bolts are not remotely necessary to make a useful Wizard.


You might not have much luck here: They say that good wizards are like good bassists: You don't notice them until they're gone. Battlefield control and buffing is generally much more effective than blasting is, but the contribution is much harder to notice.

Buffing in general will probably be less effective in your situation, since if your characters already have high stats then increasing them won't be very useful.

Fun fact: By your DM's rules you've got a 10th and 11th level spell slot, so you should pick up some metamagic feats. Especially quicken spell.

[Dr Bwaa]

It's a touch late for me to change spells, but I can try to look for more magic. I just doubt I'll be to successful for the higher level spells.

Ah; I thought you were showing us a prospective spell list and were asking for suggestions on it. As for how to be useful with the list you have...

Polymorph is going to be mostly not useful if your party's stats are all as insane as you seem to be saying. Good for alternate travel methods (burrow, flight) I guess.
Web is a really great low-level spell. You should be able to find a lot of uses for that.
Planar Binding actually requires the Magic Circle in the description. Talk to your DM, maybe... But it's worth remembering that you don't have to summon something nasty. You could essentially use it as a really strong Summon Monster and summon some Good creature with SLAs and other strong abilities (e.g. a Lillend, which casts as a Bard, or a Leonal, which gets Heal and a bunch of other good SLAs (and isn't bad in combat)). If you're good-aligned and have the rolls for it, you may be able to get useful allies without burning your Dominate.


Considering the DC of my Dominate Monster spell is 30, I doubt much can break free.

Dominate Monster allows Spell Resistance, the check against which is based exclusively on caster level and you are only level 10. That's a much more likely way to fail the check than any properly-pumped save DC. If you're planning to Dominate something you summon, see if you can find a scroll of Assay Spell Resistance first. A lot of the good summoning targets do have spell res.


Fun fact: By your DM's rules you've got a 10th and 11th level spell slot, so you should pick up some metamagic feats. Especially quicken spell.

LOL true facts. Do this.

[Asteron]

Find the part in the DMG that shows WBL and show it to your DM. Then close the book and smack him in the face with it... I hate to make a big deal over the same thing as everybody else, but the game assumes you have so much money.

What feats do you have?

[Malroth]

catageory zero: Spells that negate entire dungeons in a single casting. Illusionary script, Shapechange, Ice assasian, Planar Binding,Mindrape, Love's Pain.

[Psyren]

I wouldn't get too worked up over the money situation - if your stats are as good as you say then that's functionally identical to high wealth anyway. 32 Int at level 10 has to be worth a Headband of Intellect at the very least. Similarly, "more Con than a Balor" probably means buying a Belt of Vitality or an Amulet of Fortitude would be redundant.

As far as your spell choice - Polymorph is a fine toolbox when you can't think of anything better to do. I'd be worried about all the charms and illusions - against the wrong kind of enemy (like an ooze or golem) a sizeable chunk of your list becomes useless.

You need more battlefield control, and I mean things that don't just target one creature or get stopped by a save. If your DM thinks your spells suck, definitely go along with that and see if you can swap some out. I would get Solid Fog, Glitterdust, Black Tentacles, some Walls, definitely some Summon Monsters in there so that you can contribute no matter what you face.

You also don't have enough buffs. Where's Haste? Where's Invisibility? Where's (Greater) Magic Weapon? Where's Magic Circle against X?

Finally, Planar Binding is usually good, but with such low wealth it might not be so easy to use, plus you're missing the other spells (like Magic Circle as mentioned above, and Dimensional Anchor) that would make it work better.

[Seer_of_Heart]

But it's barely been one session, and both the DM, another player and the DM's friend have expected me to be a fireball slinging squishy wizard. I kind of want to prove that Lightning Bolts are not remotely necessary to make a useful Wizard.

You should have been an elven generalist domain wizard with the Farie Mysteries Initiate feat to use int for health :smallbiggrin:. You'd also get 2 extra 9th level spells per day, one extra spell per level, and 9 free spells.

[Chilingsworth]

Suggestion:

For this suggestion, you'll need two things: 1. a DMG and 2 an expendible PHB (Because of tradition. If you must, any reasonibly hard and heavy object will do.)

Step one: Open your copy of the DMG to page 135. This page has the player WBL table on it. Show it to your DM. If this solves the problem, you're golden. If not, proceed to step 2.

Step two: Bludgeon him with your spare PHB or other object. If this breaks the bashing object, replace it with another appropriate object.

Step three: return to step one and repeat process until desired result is achieved, all appropriate bashing objects are no longer usable for that purpose, or your DM is in a coma.*

* Poster does not actually recomend physical violence against DM's (even when they deserve it) The above plan may be illegal in your area. Not Endorsed by PETID (People for the Ethical Treatment of Idiot DM's)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Spells to include on your spell list:

1st: Grease. Reflex save or encounter ender. Also denies dex bonus to AC for opponents who DO make their save due to their needing to make a Balance check.

2nd: Glitterdust. Will save or encounter ender. Also lights up invisible opponents to your allies who don't have the cash to afford see invis through items.

Mirror Image. Bar none, the second-best defensive spell ever. Particularly at your level, your opponents will likely have a 12.5% chance of hitting the right image, to even decide if attacking you matters. That's equivalent to an 87.5% miss chance.

Invisibility. Not for you, for your party's rogue. Flat footed generally means denied dex bonus to AC, which means sneak attacks enabled.

3rd: Greater Magic Weapon. No, seriously, if your party beatsticks don't have Enhancement Bonuses on their weapons, they will NEED this to even be effective. Most everything by now has DR/magic.

Haste. Along the same lines, giving your beatsticks an extra attack is almost always worth more than blasting.

Stinking Cloud. Fort save or Lose condition. Considering your Int score, your save DC's are going to be hella hard for opponents to make.

4th: Mirror Image, Greater. As Mirror Image, but as a swift action and images refresh themselves. The #1 best defensive spell in the game, barring polycheese shenanigans.

Dimension Door. Get out of trouble free card. Note the distinct lack of Somatic components? This means you can cast it while bound, being able to ignore ASF, and in general duplicates the effect of a Still Spell metamagic feat, built in at no additional charge.

With Grease, Glitterdust, and Stinking Cloud, you can target an opponent's weak save (if applicable) with a Save or Lose condition. Take the Heighten Spell feat to further increase the DC's to the point where no realistically appropriate encounter will be able to make those saving throws.

All of these are 4th level or lower, so they should be available to you.

Spells to look out for which you probably won't encounter but if you do, you should pick them up:

Polymorph Any Object/Shapechange. If your GM gives you access to these, snag them. Do anything and everything in your power. I don't care if you have to hawk every last possession you have and your firstborn child... do it.

Time Stop. While perhaps not as critical, it's a lot of fun. Can be used to set up all kinds of crazy combos.

Shadow Evocation, Greater. It's basically component-free Contingency and Forcecage.

Cloudkill. Save or lose, but even if you save, you still take Con damage. And doesn't allow SR. Great room-sweeper. Lethal when paired with Forcecage.

Honestly, if I were a wizard and given the choice between WBL and your casting stat... I'd choose the casting stat. Wealth can be obtained. Boosting your DC's is what you'd spend most of your money on anyways, and hits diminishing returns rather rapidly.

[Karnith]

4th: Mirror Image, Greater. As Mirror Image, but as a swift action and images refresh themselves. The #1 best defensive spell in the game, barring polycheese shenanigans.
Small point: it actually has a casting time of one immediate action, which just makes it even more desirable.

[Quorothorn]

catageory zero: Spells that negate entire dungeons in a single casting. Illusionary script, Shapechange, Ice assasian, Planar Binding,Mindrape, Love's Pain.

You know, I am fairly sure that Love's Pain maxes out at 10d6 damage to a single target (the OP's character could only do 5d6 with it without some way to boost CL). Oh, and it requires very specific conditions for use (and is not guaranteed to work at all)--yes I am aware of how "Mindrape" is supposed to set it up (Mindrape being, you know, a 9th-level spell that allows a save, which even a Commoner pulled off the street therefore has a 1 in 20 chance of making). Oh, and it also smacks you for INT damage every time you use it, which seems like it might be important to a Wizard. Oh, and you basically have to be of Evil alignment to use it (and it's definitely guaranteed you must be Evil to use the "combo" with Mindrape), meaning most PCs won't touch it in practice. Oh, and it is ALSO 3.0 material from a single non-Core sourcebook and can be dismissed out-of-hand by any DM who wants to do so by that alone.

How, exactly, does that "negate entire dungeons in a single casting"?

(And it's remarkable how casually people seem to throw about Ice Assassin as a solution to everything these days when it is, as far as I know, still a 9th-level spell that takes 8 hours, 5,000 XP, 20,000 GP in powdered diamonds, and a physical piece of the creature to be duplicated to actually cast the thing--AND probably a decent Craft check to make the statue.)

[Gavinfoxx]

Okay, you want to be an Easy Bake Wizard. Level 10 with 500 gold? Bleck...

If you play in a game with no gear whatsoever, I still would not encourage Vow of Poverty, due to the difficulties with being Exalted and transporting stuff; he's bound to mess up and put an adamantine door in somewhere, or something!


If you are in a low magic (as defined as super low wealth, as far as useful gear goes) game, you definitely want to do the most casting character you possibly can. If there is no magic worth anything as gear, you need to bring as much magic as possible to compensate.

I would suggest either a Druid, or an Easy Bake Wizard -- it is VERY item independent, and works even if you don't get any gear in the game whatsoever.

Here's how you make an Easy Bake Wizard.

Easy Bake No "Worries" Wizard

Ingredients:
1 Gray Elf (SRD, MM1)
1 Wizard Class (PHB, SRD)
1 Elf Wizard Racial Substitution Level (Races of the Wild)
1 Eidetic Spellcaster Alternative Class Feature (Dragon Magazine #357 -- the core of the build!)
1 Spontaneous Divination Alternative Class Feature (Complete Champion, be sure to check out the errata online!)
1 Collegiate Wizard Feat (Complete Arcane)
1 Aerenal Arcanist feat (Player's Guide to Eberron, optional)
1 Eschew Materials feat (PHB, SRD)
1 Domain Wizard variant, Transmutation or Conjuration domain (SRD, Unearthed Arcana, optional)
Flaws, to taste (SRD, Unearthed Arcana, optional, but necessary if you want all those feats by level 3)

Mix in bowl, and be sure to top with any one of these feats:
Acidic Splatter, Winter's Blast, or Fiery Burst (all from Complete Mage)

Makes one item independent character.

Notes: if it doesn't turn out right, you picked bad spells. Be sure to look at the various wizard handbooks for how to pick solid, powerful, versatile spells. And it is very thematic that you can do stuff like leave a slot open, or take Uncanny Forethought or Alacritous Cogitation, consider taking those later. And you automatically just 'get' spells like a sorcerer... no need for scrolls or anything. This Wizard idea relies on exactly zero found scrolls and zero need for items to scribe things into his spellbook, and with Eschew Materials and the right spells chosen, doesn't even need a Spell Component Pouch! Also, some people might think that this trading out the ability to specialize three times, but that isn't what is going on. Due to differing language between the various options, that isn't what's happening. Some of the stuff says that 'if you don't specialize, you can do this', some of the stuff says 'by removing the ability to specialize entirely, you gain this ability.' Order in which the abilities are taken matters.

Further, some more possible ingredients to take include:

-Alacritous Cogitation feat at level 6 (Complete Mage)
-Another Great option for race is a Lesser Fey'ri (Players Guide to Faerun and Races of Faerun) with LA Bought off (the LA buyoff option is in the SRD and Unearthed Arcana). This lets you make use of that Alter Self at will; read the handbook on the uses of Alter Self.
-Another option is Lesser Celadrin. You combine the rules in Player's Guide to Faerun and the rules in Dragon Magazine #350 to get Lesser Celadrin. Also, Fire Elf (UA/SRD) works well too.


-If you ask for houserules, consider these two:
-Permission to house rule that you can take Uncanny Forethought (Exemplars of Evil) at level 9, with the Alacritous Cogitation (Complete Mage) and the Eidetic Spellacster ACF taking place of the Spell Mastery prerequisite, without access to the 'spell mastery' capability from that feat
-Hopefully permission to house rule for the character to count Autohypnosis (XPH, SRD) as a class skill, to describe the character's eidetic memory being useful for things other than spellcasting


Some numbers:

Basic Wizard: Start with 3+Int mod L1 spells, +2 each level as baseline
Elf Generalist Wizard: +1 wizard spell at start, +1 each level beyond baseline
Collegiate Wizard: Instead of 3+int and +2 each level, baseline is set at 6+int and +4 each level
Aerenal Arcanist: +1 each level beyond baseline, including L1 if you take it then
Domain Wizard (Transmutation or Conjuration): One specific extra spell of each spell levels; +9 spells over career (cantrip is already known)

So at level one, with a 20 int (cause Grey Elf or whatever) you know:
13 level one spells, plus mage armor or expeditious retreat automatically
At level 2, you gain six new L1 spells
At level 3, you gain 6 spells of up to spell level 2, and levitate or web, depending...

However, this may interact very very well with the houserules you have...

Essentially, you end up with a more versatile Sorcerer, who has access to a TON of spells, and can always get the right spell for the job... even with no gear whatsoever. And like I said, no Vow of Poverty. No not even then.

Also, show him the page number for Wealth By Level. Table 3-1, Character Wealth by Level, page 135.

Also, read the 'traps beginners should be warned of' thread here: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4189.0

And link it to him, and maybe even print out important ones and make sure he reads it...

[TuggyNE]

Of course, my DM has some rule misconceptions/house rules in effect, as well as being someone who thinks ToB is utterly overpowered.

My DM thinks you receive the bonus spell slots due to high intelligence from level one. All of them. Even the level nine spell slots, if you have a high enough Int.

I tried to persuade him otherwise, but I'm rather desperate for a group and didn't want to press the issue.

He also has never heard of WBL, so we all got 500g as level ten characters.

On the plus side, the method by which he rolls stats means the entire part has better stats than some monsters. My Wizard has an Intelligence Score of 32 straight off the bat.

And My DM appears to make Wizards more like Sorcerers, in that, so long as I tell him I prepared spells, I can cast any I like.
[...]
The main reason I'm asking is because those of my group who have played before seem aghast that I failed to be a blaster wizzie.

I'd like to show them I can be a contributing member of the group without raining lighting on everything.

Honestly, the level of bizarre unaware houseruling going on strongly suggests that if you do break their preconceptions of what casters are for, your means of doing so will be immediately houseruled away without recognizing it as a houserule.


I'm worried the DM might not let us fight Dimensional Anchor.

He said a seventh level spell was rare and hard to find, so an eight would be worse.

Dimensional anchor, the spell used for (lesser/greater) planar binding circles, is a 4th-level ray. Dimensional lock is the 8th-level burst version.

[Alienist]

I require more whine with my cheese.

Please complain more about WBL when the DM already gave them +20 to all their stats.

By my counting thats +10 to everything, but I really want to hear more about how unfair and disadvantaged they are because they cannot afford the +3 weapons which the game 'assumes' they're supposed to have.

[Gavinfoxx]

the DM already gave them +20 to all their stats.

What, where???

.....

*jawdrop*

You aren't playing 3.5e. Really. At this point, you are not playing D&D... you are playing a game that resembles D&D, but isn't. Does he have ANY IDEA the repercussions of doing that? No, of course not. Otherwise he wouldn't do it! ARGH!!

He does know that the range for human ability scores is 3-18 at level 1, yes?

Argh, send him this:

http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/587/roleplaying-games/dd-calibrating-your-expectations-2

[Asteron]

I require more whine with my cheese.

Please complain more about WBL when the DM already gave them +20 to all their stats.

By my counting thats +10 to everything, but I really want to hear more about how unfair and disadvantaged they are because they cannot afford the +3 weapons which the game 'assumes' they're supposed to have.

Where does it say they got +20 to everything?

Maybe I'm failing at reading comprehension, but I don't see that in any of his posts...

[Quorothorn]

Where does it say they got +20 to everything?

Maybe I'm failing at reading comprehension, but I don't see that in any of his posts...

Not outright +20s, necessarily, but the OP did say their character had more CON than a Balor (so, 32+?), and an INT score of 32 (i.e. ~12 higher than it normally would "ought" to be, leaving aside buffs, at 10th character level)?

....as Gavinfoxx said, I don't think they're really "playing 3.5" at this point. It's quite a bit...different.

[Gavinfoxx]

On the plus side, the method by which he rolls stats means the entire part has better stats than some monsters. My Wizard has an Intelligence Score of 32 straight off the bat.

That. Oh god, that...

Anyway, if you want generic Wizard advice, read this:

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1570

And this:

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2716

[Quorothorn]

I'm now actually rather curious as to this "method by which he rolls stats". Semi-morbidly so, but still.

[Kazyan]

If you play in a game with no gear whatsoever, I still would not encourage Vow of Poverty, due to the difficulties with being Exalted and transporting stuff; he's bound to mess up and put an adamantine door in somewhere, or something!

You just suggested Easy-Bake Wizard; that solves most of the arguments against VoP, especially if you can do the spend-XP-instead-of-gold thing, and everyone else is going to have problems transporting as well. There's not enough gold for anyone's HHH. With all of the pluses that these guys are getting, I would totally take VoP. (...If I could play prepared spellcasters properly. Like, at all.)

[TuggyNE]

I'm now actually rather curious as to this "method by which he rolls stats". Semi-morbidly so, but still.

10d6 keep best 8.

[Onerai]

{insert a long list of expletives here} *ahem*

Good grief Zale, it's stuff like this that makes me really appreciate just how lucky I am to live near people who both enjoy rpgs, and are actually willing to listen to reason!

On the equipment front you're actually not that badly off as a Wizard, since you have spells that can make up for most of the number buffs you'd be missing by not having typical WBL equipment. That said, with stats that stupidly high, you may not even need them.

My apologies that I can't give more coherent advice, but my head is still reeling from the implications of your stats and how little of the D&D books he must have read to think this was in any way "a good idea".

I highly support the suggestion of avoiding blasting in favor of "I win" buttons; wall of force, solid fog, dimensional anchor and a whole host of other spells do great without even giving a foe the chance to use a saving throw. If enemy numbers are buffed as much as yours are, I doubt hit point damage is even relevant.

[ArcturusV]

Again I can't believe I forgot to mention this. Remember as a Wizard, even if your DM is a stingy, stingy man (Seems unlikely given the stats.... but even so), and you can't find enemy spellbooks to copy out of, or scrolls with the spells you want to transcribe, etc. There's still Spell Research and you can use that to get any spell you ever wanted added in. Especially if it's a published spell there's really not much he can say about it. From what I gather most people don't seem to use Spell Research in general. I do, a lot. To the point where about 3/4ths of my spell book will be Researched rather than granted/transcribed.