Level Adjustment

[Ruethgar]

Is there a more concrete way to calculate level adjustment and ECL than what Savage Species provides?

[jedipilot24]

The Savage Species method seems pretty concrete to me, what exactly are you looking for?

[Ruethgar]

It says continuously throughout SS to adjust the LA such that the ECL is equal to a base race of the same class level, that is hardly concrete and makes the LA adjustments presented more like suggestions. Furthermore, how is is that 1HD=1 Character level? It seems that the special abilities of classes would out weigh straight HD at least to some degree.

[ahenobarbi]

Effective Character Level = Racial Hit Die number + Class Levels number + Level Adjustments sum

Yes racial hit die are weaker than (most) classes but most races that get them get some stuff of their own (special abilities, stats, ...). Racial hit die and level adjustment are "paying back" for this.

[jedipilot24]

It says continuously throughout SS to adjust the LA such that the ECL is equal to a base race of the same class level, that is hardly concrete and makes the LA adjustments presented more like suggestions. Furthermore, how is is that 1HD=1 Character level? It seems that the special abilities of classes would out weigh straight HD at least to some degree.

Chapter 2, from page 11 on has all kinds of concrete and easily measurable factors in determing level adjustments.

[Urpriest]

It says continuously throughout SS to adjust the LA such that the ECL is equal to a base race of the same class level, that is hardly concrete and makes the LA adjustments presented more like suggestions. Furthermore, how is is that 1HD=1 Character level? It seems that the special abilities of classes would out weigh straight HD at least to some degree.

I can at least answer that one.

If you look at most of the guidelines, you'll see that most of them have comparisons to when a character of that level would get the ability. Ideally, you would have 1HD=1 Character Level (because that's one of the fundamental principles behind the way characters are constructed) and then LA would adjust based on how the other abilities that race gets stack up against the benefits that that many character levels in a PC class would provide. For example, three natural attacks at level 1 might be worth LA (though the example of Web Enhancement Kobolds mildly contradicts that), but it is not worth it on top of 8RHD, at which point a PC-classed character could easily get those attacks.

That said, you're asking for more concrete guidelines than the Savage Species ones, and luckily for you, those exist in 3.5. Every monster that's actually playable in 3.5 has its level adjustment calculated and printed in its monster entry. These guidelines are totally explicit and cover every potential case.

Now of course, what you want is for something beyond that. You want to play a creature that, per 3.5 rules, is unplayable, or a creature that, being homebrewed, was never assigned a 3.5 LA. In either case, this means doing some amount of homebrew work to make the creature playable. If you're doing that level of work, you might as well use more modern methods of homebrew, and make a monster class in the style of those on this site's homebrew forum rather than representing the monster via the poorly thought out mechanics of ECL and LA.

[Ruethgar]

Chapter 2, from page 11 on has all kinds of concrete and easily measurable factors in determing level adjustments.

An ogre's starting ECL calculates as 7 (4 HD +3 level adjustment)
using the system above. His highest ability score is
Strength. Would you rather play an ogre with a level of
fighter (ECL 8), or an 8th-level fighter? To play the ogre, you
give up the fighter's three (larger) Hit Dice, three bonus
feats, and two ability score increases to gain +10 Strength,
10-foot reach, and natural armor. The fighter seems clearly
better. If you substitute barbarian for fighter, the ogre seems
clearly inferior, since the barbarian has 8d12 (plus Constitution
modifier) for Hit Dice and can rage three times per day,
and the ogre only has 4d8 + 1d12 (plus Constitution modifier)
for Hit Dice and can rage only once per day. If you
lower the ogre's level adjustment to +2, and compare a 7thlevel
fighter to an ECL 7 ogre fighter, the choice is no longer
clearly in favor of either one. Thus, the level adjustment
becomes +2 for the ogre.

The troll's three natural attacks grant it a +1 level adjustment
because it can make one more attack than a fighter of equal
Hit Dice could. None of these attacks deal exceptional
damage, however. The troll's rend special attack is worth a +1
level adjustment because it deals as much damage as a greatsword.
The creature's unbalanced ability scores are worth at
least a +1 level adjustment, perhaps even a +2, since it gets +12
Strength. It seems reasonable for a troll's level adjustment to
be +7, making its starting ECL 13. But if we add a level of
fighter or barbarian to the troll and compare it with a 14thlevel
standard-race fighter or barbarian, the standard-race
character is clearly superior in base attack bonus, skills, feats,
and class abilities. To adjust, look at the troll's abilities. By this
level of play, a +7 natural armor bonus and the scent ability are
not as valuable as they were at earlier levels. Discounting those
gives a +5 level adjustment. While some might feel that a 12thlevel
standard-race fighter or barbarian is still better than a
troll with one level of fighter or barbarian (ECL 12), regeneration
makes such a character too tough to reduce further.

These are not concrete, these are subjective to what one views as more powerful.

Thank you Urpriest, I'll look in the Homebrew section, the creatures I am looking at were, for the most part, not reprinted for 3.5.

[Karnith]

Chapter 2, from page 11 on has all kinds of concrete and easily measurable factors in determing level adjustments.
On the other hand, the guidelines that they provide are pretty bad, considering that in their own "acid tests" monsters started out with wildly inflated level adjustments (hm, a troll at ECL 15?) compared to the final numbers. Even then, most monsters in 3.5 have ECLs too high for their actual ability to contribute to a game.

Also, some of the guidelines are just silly - spellcasting, for example, is only worth a level adjustment if the creature can cast spells as if it were a higher-level spellcaster than a character of its CR (or if its caster level is above its HD, which is +1 LA). Which is ridiculous, not only because Wizards doesn't know how to properly rate CR, but also because the player doesn't get to play the monster as a character with an ECL equal to its CR, but as a character with an ECL of its HD plus level adjustment. Since CR is almost always much lower than ECL (and usually HD), one wonders what bearing the monster's CR has on the rating.