Persistent Spell question

[King Atticus]

I've never used this feat before so I'm trying to nail down rules before I do. The feat description says that the persistent spell must have a personal range or fixed range. By doing some cursory research I've seen that most people do not include touch spells as fixed range spells. Can anyone break this down for me? I'm looking for RAW examples here please.

It seems to me that while a creatures reach isn't a standard when compared to any other creature, for that specific caster it is a fixed range. But I defer to the Playground, please enlighten me.

Thanks for any and all responses

[Carth]

I've always found the argument that touch =/= fixed because natural reach can vary to be pretty dubious also, my hunch is it's just a construct to limit the power of a feat that's already stupidly powerful under certain circumstances.

[Cog]

I'm not aware of any spells that involve a die roll for their range; by this logic, at any given time, close, medium, and long range spells are all fixed range, too. If you use a definition that broad, it's so broad as to be useless.

[Urpriest]

I'm not aware of any spells that involve a die roll for their range; by this logic, at any given time, close, medium, and long range spells are all fixed range, too. If you use a definition that broad, it's so broad as to be useless.

This, essentially. Fixed range is probably a mistake, given that it isn't a game term, and I don't really have any evidence about what it was supposed to stand in for. But given that there are spells that have a specific range irrespective of the properties of the caster, these seem the most likely candidates.

[Bakkan]

Another way of looking at it is that "fixed" means universally fixed; that is, any caster ever who casts this spell (metamagic notwithstanding) will cast it with the same range. So detect magic has a fixed range, because anyone who ever casts it will cast it with a range of 60 ft. However, chill touch does not have a fixed range, since this human wizard over here casts it with a range of 5 ft and this ogre sorcerer over here casts it with a range of 10 ft. So chill touch does not have a fixed range.

[Carth]

You can change the range of long, medium, and short range spells simply by using a lower caster level, something that can be done freely (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#casterLevel). There's so many differences between long, medium, and short spells and touch spells that the distinction being made in this case strikes me as worthless.

[Alienist]

If you look at the fixed range spells, they are all auras or similar effects that emanate from the caster as the source.

Personal range spells also emanate from the caster.

Touch spells do not. You might choose to touch yourself (oh er) with a buff, but most of the time a touch spell is being cast on someone, or something, else.

Compare the wording of Divine Power and Righteous might.

'you you you you you'

with the wording of Mark of Justice and Death Ward

'the subect the subject the subject the subject'

[Vaz]

Protip: ocular spell isn't cheating, especially wrt Incantatrix or DMM.

[Pickford]

This, essentially. Fixed range is probably a mistake, given that it isn't a game term, and I don't really have any evidence about what it was supposed to stand in for. But given that there are spells that have a specific range irrespective of the properties of the caster, these seem the most likely candidates.

Well, the feat itself mentions Detect Magic and Detect Thoughts, spells with 60' range.

Long/Medium/Close are all variable range and touch isn't a personal 'or' a fixed ranged. As it fulfills neither pre-requisite, it's disqualified.

[King Atticus]

Protip: ocular spell isn't cheating, especially wrt Incantatrix or DMM.

I see that it changes the range to a fixed 60' but I'm curious about the implications, does that mean that since touch spells have a range other than personal they suddenly become valid targets for DMM? A 1 feat tax seriously opens up that many new spells? :smallamused:

If using this for a self buff though...how do you hit yourself with a ray that shoots 60' away?

[TuggyNE]

If using this for a self buff though...how do you hit yourself with a ray that shoots 60' away?

Pick one: Very carefully
With a magic mirror
Quite easily
With project image

[Vaz]

You look at your hand, cast spell.

As for being a valid target for DMM, i do not know, as i have yet to play one. DMM is used mostly for persist, and I use Wu Jen Body Outside Body Incantatrix to do similar though and it can be used as such.

[King Atticus]

Pick one:
Very carefully
With a magic mirror
Quite easily
With project image


You look at your hand, cast spell.

Yeah, I realized that was stupid after I posted it. For some reason I had it in my mind that it would only work at that distance...not up to that distance. :smallredface:

Thanks for the help everybody