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Jane_Smith
2013-02-21, 09:30 AM
So, as the title suggests, our characters have finally reached level 3 in our pathfinder game, and due to having no chance to get any money besides looting a few people here and there, we have had no major rewards or loot to speak of until we returned to our organization with a brilliant job well done to throw at them. Essentially we stopped a civil war, found the culprits that were behind the scenes, and stopped multiple parties/organizations or killed them who were involved, or just diplomized everything else and managed to get some incredible rolls in tough spots.

For our work, our organization has not only given us some massive praise, but also a whooping 50 gold each (for a party of 8) to do with as we please. Don't scoff at the amount, in THIS game, all types of currency are +1 in value, so those 50 gold pieces are worth 500 silver... which is essentially 500 gold worth in a normal pathfinder or D&D game in this setting.

Now, i don't really care what everyone else is going to do with there money. The dm has set up for the rogue, fighter, ranger and barbarian they can actually purchase maneuvers from tome of battle in a way similar to a wizard gains spells known by going to train and taking classes (The barbarian has 14 intelligence and more like a fighter with rage), so I figure they will spend most of there money in schooling for martial arts and get some neat tricks and some masterwork gear, or poisons, traps, whatever. The druid, the illusionist, and the new guy will likely just spend there money on new spells, potions, scrolls, and the like.

However, my character (a fiendish human sorceress) has decided to invest. She has ranks in knowledge (trade), which is appraise and profession combined in this game, and a massive bonus to social skills and sense motive, perception, sleight of hand. Shes actually a better rogue then the rogue in all cases involving deception, pickpocketing, disguises, forgeries, and the like. I have been considering what I should invest in, the dm has decided with that much money and my current renown within the city I could easily find a business or a empty building to buy out, furnish and get started in the next few months of in game down time we have.

My character is chaotic neutral, leaning to the point shes about to become chaotic good (shes directly saved to many people when she did not have to, etc, though she is greedy, ambitious and hedonistic). Her primary goals is to gain influence and wealth and advance her powers by any means, so in those respects, I have some basic ideas of what to invest in;

Brothel - Hire some girls off the street and offer them protection, I could use my illusions and enchantment spells and our party alchemist to come up with incenses, drugs and recreational stuff to spice up the place, hire some guards, and use my power to slap and scar the faces of troublemakers to spread my reputation as a fearsome and no tolerance fire mage. Anyone with my hand print seared into there face is not allowed back, and has to face the humiliation in public and there families if any. Over the years, I could pull a little fingers (Game of Thrones) and essentially become a powerful force within politics due to my connections and information dealings behind the scenes. Also, assassin hookers for the win. Moderate income of all the ideas, a few followers.

All Girls School - I could do something a little less risky and take in orphan girls off the street, the poor or otherwise homeless women and educate them for cheap (I have +8 in almost all knowledge skills due to some optimization. Cough. Don't ask how.) and in turn make them better suited for dealing with society, and help them make fortunes of there own. All the while I can use it as a means in the future to create a network of spies, infiltrators, diplomats, and agents loyal to me for saving them from the streets and poverty. Thieves guild disguised as a school essentially. Lowest income of all the investments at first, but more followers.

A magic shop - The dm has allowed any magic item to be created without feats, though the prerequisites and costs are higher then normal, the feats just improve the speed/cost of those specific items. My character meets the prerequisites to craft almost all bagic charms and most magic items under 1000 gp (sp in this game) market value. I could hire other hedge magicians to fill in roles for crafting I cannot meet myself, such as a wizard, cleric, druid, etc. This city is a metropolis, and with my renown I should be able to get this shop in a very populated area in the market district, perhaps on a street corner. I could put up some illusion displays, etc like "tv's", have a jar filled with +2 skill charms, etc. Got a problem? We got a charm/potion/crystal for that. Could even copy and sell the spellbooks of my enemies to put on the shelves, like beginner guides to cantrips, or 1st-level spells for dummies kinda theme. I could even sell imps, rats, bats, bunnies, etc in the back for familiars for the cities spellcasters who have recently lost one or apprentices seeking companionship, and breed them into magebred animals (eberron setting template for animals). The only problem with this idea is it would require a great deal of time to craft objects when I am in the city, I would end up having a list of orders after every mission, etc, but it would potentially have the HIGHEST income of all the investments, but the least followers. Oh, and our fighter is a very skilled alchemist, witcher style, I could always let him work there to sell his goods for like a 20% portion of the proceeds for letting him sale his goods in my store.

What do you guys think? And any other ideas?

Kaveman26
2013-02-21, 10:32 AM
Brothel - Hire some girls off the street and offer them protection, I could use my illusions and enchantment spells and our party alchemist to come up with incenses, drugs and recreational stuff to spice up the place, hire some guards, and use my power to slap and scar the faces of troublemakers to spread my reputation as a fearsome and no tolerance fire mage. Anyone with my hand print seared into there face is not allowed back, and has to face the humiliation in public and there families if any. Over the years, I could pull a little fingers (Game of Thrones) and essentially become a powerful force within politics due to my connections and information dealings behind the scenes. Also, assassin hookers for the win. Moderate income of all the ideas, a few followers.

My players ran a campaign that was strictly for profit. They ran with something akin to this idea, but they took it to a whole new level. Incorporate gambling, drinking and games of chance. Conduct all business under the auspice of the brothel actually being a temple (my players levered this to get tax exemption under religious concern)

In my signature is a link for a campaign recap called Chaotic Goodfellas, that is the full breakdown of how my players built themselves a mini crime empire without once getting their own hands dirty.

Lord Torath
2013-02-21, 02:56 PM
I favor the All Girls School/spy network idea. It may not have the highest monetary payoff, but almost certainly has the highest power payoff. You'll have loyal agents all over the place, and will be able to manipulate things everywhere.

CarpeGuitarrem
2013-02-21, 03:47 PM
Start a "stock market" based off of the successes of various adventuring parties.

Proceed to sabotage the other parties.

Nah, for reals, the Spy School is awesome. Though, the item shop (www.carpefulgur.com/recettear/) tends to work out pretty well...

Barsoom
2013-02-21, 04:14 PM
Brothel - ....

All Girls School - ....
Am I the only one reading this and going "ding ding ding combo!" ?

ArcturusV
2013-02-21, 04:21 PM
Well, you might want to take a different view to Education than typically is the case. Instead of having pure theoretical work, busy work, etc. Have it be a practical education as well. Instead of teaching kids by lectures and book reading have they work on projects that could at least provide some potential use. They don't learn about the stars by reading a book, they learn about it by having to make a working Sextant and testing it so that you know it's properly calibrated and working. Then sell said Product on the market after it's done.

Again, small matters. But it can help offset costs. That way you can still be making a small return on investment outside of simple Tuition Fees. The point being is that all "lessons" should also be potentially profit making ventures as well.

Kaveman26
2013-02-21, 04:44 PM
I favor the All Girls School/spy network idea. It may not have the highest monetary payoff, but almost certainly has the highest power payoff. You'll have loyal agents all over the place, and will be able to manipulate things everywhere.

Read Kushiel's Dart if you have not already. That is basically the premise.

Randel
2013-02-21, 05:04 PM
You could sort of combine the Girls School and magic item shop thing. Teach the kids how do do things while also having a store set up to sell items to the public.

You could have the kids learn crafting skills by makiing items to be sold. Simply make various masterwork tools and magic items that boost skill bonuses and you can have a bunch of people making decent quality items even if they don't have the necessary skill points at first.

Teach them magic and they can make money using spellcasting 1st level spells like goodberry, cure light wounds, mending and the like can be profitable as well. Items that boost their spellcasting stats help make it easier for those with low Int, Wis, or Cha scores to make it into spellcasting.

Use this to establish yourself by giving a future to all these people who need skills and employment. The skill boost items helps them get started while the educational program gives them the later skill points they need.


Plus, there is the Create Food and Water trap you can create that makes food out of nothing. No idea what it would cost in Pathfinder with your crafting rules, but you could look into it and see about ending world hunger. Or maybe a device that mass produces Goodberrys or some other food item.


Finally, once you've got a decent amount of money set up, you could go into banking or financing. Depending on how you accept loans, deal with bad payments, or handle all the wierd magical stuff that happens in a fantasy world, you could end up quite influential.


Oh, and depending on the setting and your willingness to advance technology. You could invent the bottlecap and start a brewery or something. Make a new brand of beer/wine get machinery or enchantments to bottle it (with resealable bottlecaps) maybe add some healing potion or goodberry juice to give it some magical zing, and you've got a delicious and marketable item.

Suppose you make a beer with one berry worth of goodberry juice in it, it basically turns that bottle into a full meal and can be used to heal cuts or wounds. Get a decent supply of goodberries and put this stuff on the market and I'm sure people will love you. Add some other minor effects from mixed-in potions and you can have popular drinks tailored to crafters, diplomats, or whoever.

Jane_Smith
2013-02-21, 05:58 PM
Wo wo wo, who said she wanted to end world hunger? That isn't profitable and would make every food/grocer merchant in the world want her head. She may be swinging towards chaotic good, but she ain't there yet! :smallbiggrin: My character is looking at this less about helping others and more about how it benefits her the most and what has the least risk of backfiring. She wants any mix of wealth and/or underlings, but whichever will offer her more, if it helps people in the process then its icing on the cake even if unexpected or unplanned for.

Also, my money can only be stretched so far this early in the game, I need to start fairly simple. A brothel, school, or store is about all my money can get opened up, something like a casino, or a magic academy/shop style hybrid of the ideas is beyond my scopes, for now.

I don't even know if I can open the magic shop, I would have to buy the building, and expend all my money on just a few hundred small/cheap magic items, barely enough to fill the shop. At least with the brothel the girls (and some guys) would be paid by the client/weekly wages and I would only have to hire a cleric to remove disease every few months, so it would have time to generate money and let me get more before I have to shell out more gold. The shop would require a constant sink of money from beginning to end with no downtime while its in operation. The school would be the easier, by far, to start and operate, but would have very little income at all, ever except from possibly donations I can squeeze out of the ruling elite (and with 22 charisma and +19 influence, that would be fairly easy).

ArcturusV
2013-02-21, 06:02 PM
Yeah. Should be possible though to run simple Craft/Profession/Knowledge schools though on the cheap. And provide a stable (but small) income. You won't hit it big at first but it should help recoop your costs fairly quickly. Especially if you can find someone with bluff/diplomacy (Or whatever Pathfinder called the combo... Persuasion?) to help haggle prices up for the services/items your Students do while learning.

snoopy13a
2013-02-21, 06:19 PM
The school would be the best option from a social climber's perspective.

LibraryOgre
2013-02-21, 06:25 PM
I'd abstract it, myself; this is not, after all, Investments and Invoices.

My usual rule is "Determine amount you are investing. Roll 2d8*10. That is your percentage return on your investment."

Now, if you do the math, this means that when you invest 100gp, you'll usually get back 90gp... a loss of 10gp. If we're going abstraction, I'd allow you to make a Knowledge: Trade check of 10+desired bonus to add to your percentage. Want a 10% bonus to the roll? DC 20. Want a 30% bonus to the roll? DC 40. Depending on the arguments, I might allow similar bonuses for other skills.

Jane_Smith
2013-02-21, 07:15 PM
My group combined diplomacy, bluff, gather information, intimidate, plus other uses like seduction, haggle, etc into "Influence", a single skill. It just represents your ability to make someone feel what you want them to feel and your skill in getting them to that emotional state as quickly as possible. Sympathy, rage, fear, love, awe, respect, overconfident, etc. Even a t-rex can have influence, to scare the hell out of you and demoralize. The gm though determines what species can use certain uses of it, obviously.


As it stands, the following charisma scores/influence bonuses make up the party;

Kyra (My Fiendish Human Abyssal Sorceress): 22 Cha, +19 Influence, +9 Sense Motive. A half-succubus (alu-fiend) captured by cultists and summoned straight from hell and kept as a bloodletter for there rituals for over a year, she was saved by koro during the cultists siege on a small port city when he assassinated there leader. Having nobody else to go to she stuck with him to get her bearings in the world, ended up saving another town with him, and has just stuck with the party for security. Ended up joining his order with the rest of them cause she figured she might as well be paid if shes going to get dragged into his messes.

Koro (Hobgoblin Swashbuckler Rogue): 16 Cha, +9 Influence, +7 Sense Motive. The defacto leader of the party due to him being the first to join the order we are part of, and them usually handing him the missions and jobs first to explain to us. Having the highest intelligence in the group, even moreso then our wizard (who has amnesia due to a year long coma, see below), we usually go to him for plans and ideas for how to solve issues. He was formerly part of a clan who saw him as cursed because he was born on a "bad moon", and had him scarred with the mark. When his warband was killed and he was the last man standing, he figured if he returned they would blame him for there deaths and kill him as well, so he left to become a mercenary in human lands, had a tattoo placed over his scar, and changed his name to "Koro Redgold".

Tiedaz (Magic-Blooded Dreamborn Wizard [Illusionist]/Dreamspinner Sorcerer): 20 Cha, but only has +6 Influence and +2 Sense Motive due to socially awkward flaw. Also has 20 intelligence, but has the amnesia flaw and has no ranks in any knowledge skill. Effectively, he was a near epic level hero of the setting who got in a fight with a very powerful enemy. Needing to boost himself for the round 2 as it were, he performed a powerful ritual on himself to infuse his body with magic, enchanting his flesh and blood. However, his mind could not handle this transformation, and he went into a coma for over a year. He only survived because he had a ring of sustenance on at the time. His magical nature combined with his mental trauma left his mind to wonder the dream realm in vivid detail for what seemed to him to be hundreds of years, only to awake with almost no memory of his past life or any of his skills he once possessed. Worse yet, his magic infusion allowed for some of the realm of dreams to return with him, making him unable to sleep at the cost of always being in a dreamlike state, making him more easily swayed by mind-affecting magic/etc. However this has allowed his illusion magic to become more realistic, making even his basic glammers partially real and twice as powerful. Oh, and nobody will likely recognize him, because he used disguises in the past for even the most minor jobs. Though he has a few leads on his past life; an honorary token from a druid circle, a locket with the portrait of a woman from our order, and a magic hat that has a country sized continent, mansion, fields and more inside of it, but with all locked rooms and no life but plants to speak of, but with paintings and other curios of his past.

[The idea is he regains his memories upon leveling up, hes not gaining new skills but relearning them. His starting spells was from like a childrens spellbook he wrote as an author in the past. The dm gave this player quite a bit of leway on starting magic items, such as the ring of sustence and the hat of magnificent mansion/holding on steroids, and in the future other spellbooks from his past self. But was forced to take 4 flaws - amnesia, socially awkward, overly complicated, and curious without bonus feats.]

Kessar (Winged Lizardfolk Savage Barbarian): 12 Cha, +4 Influence (+8 vs. other lizardfolk in this setting, due to his wings being a symbol of there gods blessing), +6 Sense Motive. Born as one of the rare "Primordial Scales", he was considered a messiah and potential leader and warchief of his tribe. A great deal of pressure and training were put into his childhood, leaving him bitter and exhausted of his people and there ways. He saw no reason to kill, raid, and plunder or to hold grudges for ancient slights. When he became of age and cornered the beast that was chosen for his conquest, rather then taking the kill to his people to prove his rite of adulthood had passed, he spared the beast and simply left to live his own life with no regrets. He wants to fight for enjoyment and food, not for politics and grudges of the past, and especially not to prove himself to others. He joined the order with Koro originally.

Mira (Animal Lord [some horse sized dinosaur with a fin] Human Reaver Druid): 14 Cha, +6 Influence, +8 Sense Motive. From the pyrion isles, effectively one of the most dangerous lands in the setting sense everything there wants to kill you, from frogs that make everyone sleep that hears them, to man eating plants, poison spores, acidic tree sap, explosive fruits and feral trolls in place of monkeys. She joined the order from a different location, but was sent to our lands following the trail of an extremely dangerous threat, a species called the Tarasq, which is basically like the zerg in this setting, that someone from this region is trying to use as a weapon in civilized lands and put a stop to it, but with so few leads, she travels with the group while searching for rumors of there hives.

"The Gnoll" (He has refused to tell us his characters name yet, rp or oocly due to his tribes traditions, my character calls him "dog" out of irritation.) (Lucky Template, Gnoll Alchemical Fighter): 8 Cha, +0 Influence, +6 Sense Motive. A former member of the order, hes a bit of a loon and keeps to himself, but is a skilled monster hunter and assassin, using tabasco, whiskey, alchemist fire, poisons, smoke bombs, and mutagens to aid him in taking out dangerous monsters. He joined Mira when she originally came to this continent to help her track down the Tarasq threat due to him having dealt with them in the past and having a personal knowledge of there threat.

Tadji (Werewolf Human Ranger): 13 Cha, +5 Influence (+9 vs. wolves and dogs), +2 Sense Motive. In this setting lycans cannot shift and are always in hybrid form, and from a religious nomadic group called the Lunites, who are usually peaceful. He joined the party during the events of a potential civil war we helped resolve between the lunites and a group of over zealous paladins. After we managed to talk down hostilities and get both sides to calm down and removed the inciters from the background, he joined our group with Mira and the gnoll after they saved him from a group of paladins who were intent on skinning him alive (literally). Hes not an official member of the order, but tagged along out of gratitude and wanderlust and wanted to return with us to our region. Hes still planning what to do next.

Red Jack (Human Oriental Vampire [Forgot name] Gunslinger): 20 Cha, +17 Influence, +14 Sense Motive. Cannot dominate others like a normal vampire, or turn into swarms, or mist, but can operate in daylight, see its reflection, and does not care about wooden stakes or garlic. Eats peoples ki from there breath. And yes, he wears a cowboy hat and uses a repeater rifle. He gained his vampire after he went to a brothel in a seedy part of town, and the group of prostitutes ended up being devotees to the dead god Cryptus, and all vampires themselves. After an ENTIRE WEEK of hedonistic excess, things I cant type on any public forum, torture of almost every conceivable kind, and enough alcohol to kill him even if they didn't, he woke up on the 8th day with a massive hangover, was constantly cold, oddly unharmed, and left out in the middle of nowhere on the side of a road completely naked. A fellow traveler took pity on him and gave him a space set of clothes and the hat, and he managed to recreate his original rifle he had before his capture. Nobody, not even himself, realizes he was a cryptus experiment and is currently a new type of vampire that feeds off the breath of people, which has given him an unnatural and unexplainable desire to be near as many people as possible, and he has yet to properly feed in several months, but has managed to sustain himself. His "mothers" thought he was a failed experiment after several days of partial rising and dying again only to stop for a full day at the end of the week, and dumped the body far from there lair.


As you can see, my character is the more adapt at social dealings.

Radar
2013-02-22, 03:02 AM
The school project might be more profitable, if you put the right spin to it. Basically use your publicity and charisma to make it look like a charity or social work and start a regular fundriser for the school. This would imply, that you would have to take in poor children free of charge, but it's not much of a cost comparing to the potential gain.

Organize a choir in the school and regular charity concerts or as was said teach your students to produce things and sell it, while clearly stating that the profits go toward maintaining and improving your school - that warm, fuzzy feeling people get when donating to charity can easily be translated to higher profit margin.

Between your charisma, social skills and reputation you can make it big quite easily - maybe even branch out to other cities.

Slipperychicken
2013-02-22, 10:55 PM
Organize a choir in the school and regular charity concerts or as was said teach your students to produce things and sell it, while clearly stating that the profits go toward maintaining and improving your school - that warm, fuzzy feeling people get when donating to charity can easily be translated to higher profit margin.


Something like this. Making it clear that your company believes in giving back to the community (even if it's not a huge amount) can really improve customer loyalty, which pays off big in the long run. Learn about your customers and the things they value, support something important to them. And then, naturally, you include this in your promotion strategy.

Can potentially score you profits, PR benefits, and impact your alignment.


EDIT: Also, make sure there's demand for your product/service before you invest in it! No matter how good you are, you can't make money if no-one wants to buy your product.

Surfnerd
2013-02-22, 11:49 PM
I just want to chime in and say I'm so envious. I've always wanted to play in a campaign that the DM allowed or even encouraged business ventures. Should be a great source of plot hooks.