Illusion spell and Spellcraft Check

[javijuji]

Lets assume I am fighting a wizard and he uses Minor Image to "conjure" up a Manticore.

1: Does everyone seeing/hearing him get a free spellcraft check?

2: If this check is succesfull can I assume the Manticore is an illusion or do I still have to "pretend" its real until I interact with it -> Will save.

[Agincourt]

1. Yes, although Spellcraft is a trained only skill. Only the characters who have ranks in Spellcraft would get to make a check.

2. Illusions are pretty poorly defined so you may need to confirm with your DM on the ruling. That being said, this is how I would interpret it: Minor Image is a (Figment), which are explained in the 3.5 PHB on 173. "They cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are confounding or delaying foes, but useless for attacking them directly."

I would rule that the person who does make the Spellcraft check pretty much knows that the Manticore is fake. More precisely, the character knows 1) the spellcaster cast a spell that makes figments; 2) at the conclusion of the casting, a Manticore appeared. This could leave some level of doubt in a character's mind. They are free to ignore the Manticore, but if it turns out to be real, they are flat footed with respect to any of the Manticore's attacks.

[Deophaun]

2: If this check is succesfull can I assume the Manticore is an illusion or do I still have to "pretend" its real until I interact with it -> Will save.
If the check is successful, then you know not only that an illusion was cast, you know, specifically, that minor image was cast. You also know that a manticore appeared at the same time.

Now, you can make another spellcraft check, no action, with a higher DC on the manticore itself. If you make a DC 22, you know the manitcore is the product of a minor image.

[ericgrau]

^ Agreed. I once saw a trick where someone dismissed an illusion of a floor over a pit of lava, so that the spellcraft revealed the same verbal and somatic components as casting an illusion. The BBEG said "Hahaha, it's just an illusion, run across the lava my minions." And then they died.

So I'd say that the observer would know that the wizard had cast an illusion. IMO he should get a +4 on his will save to disbelieve, and he will probably ignore it even if he fails his save, but he can't actually see through it yet. On a passed save the illusion becomes semi-transparent. Proof will cause him to auto-pass his save, so he might reach out and touch the illusion and IMO that would count as proof when he feels nothing.

Precise rules are here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#illusion

[javijuji]

I have a player who really wants to play an illusionist and I see this as a potencial problem since it is a arcane heavy campaign. So most NPC's will be able to make the Spellcraft Check which is also very easy to hit past lvl 5-6. Does the same thing happen against a high level illusion spell?

[Duke of Urrel]

Some DMs, myself included, are not generous enough to grant Spellcraft checks to PCs who do not first suspect that something they see is a spell effect. They can make Spellcraft checks only if they themselves get the idea that something I describe to them is a spell effect.

An illusionist who creates a Figment in full view of observers who have Spellcraft is therefore not nearly as effective as an illusionist who creates an illusion secretly, causing it first to appear somewhere out of her enemies' line of sight and then to approach them like a real creature. The long range of many Figments (400 feet + 40 feet / CL) makes this very easy to do, with a little planning on the illusionist's part. If observers don't have any idea that what they are seeing was created by magic, they also won't make Spellcraft checks to identify the magic. Their first line of defense is therefore probably their Will save, which they don't make until after they start interacting with the Figment.

[Duke of Urrel]

Sorry, one more thing, just to be thorough.

I don't want to leave the impression that the long range of Figments permits all illusory creatures to move long distances. Most Figments follow the rule in the description of the Silent Image spell that "[y]ou can move the image within the limits of the size of the effect." So you can't make an illusory manticore move outside the space of four 10-foot cubes plus one 10-foot cube per caster level, which is where it must appear when you create it. That does significantly restrict the movement of a Large-sized creature like a manticore. The only thing the Minor Image spell's long range enables you to do as an illusionist is stand far away from your illusory creation, preferably out of sight of all observers, so that you can make the manticore seem not to have been created by a spell.

The only Figment I know that's free of this movement restriction is the Major Image spell, whose description states that "[w]hile concentrating, you can move the image within the range," that is, the range of 400 feet plus 40 feet per caster level.

[Deophaun]

I have a player who really wants to play an illusionist and I see this as a potencial problem since it is a arcane heavy campaign. So most NPC's will be able to make the Spellcraft Check which is also very easy to hit past lvl 5-6. Does the same thing happen against a high level illusion spell?
The thing about figments is, once someone suspects it, they fall apart quickly. Now, you still need to interact and make a Will save to see through it (that is, to have it turn into a transparent outline), so even obvious illusions can be useful for blocking LoS. But otherwise, you don't want to call attention to the illusion. Think of making an illusory tree in the middle of a forest versus a giant pink polka-dotted candy-breathing dragon in the middle of a town square. one is credible, so no one will think to make a spellcraft check, and the other is not.

[ericgrau]

I have a player who really wants to play an illusionist and I see this as a potencial problem since it is a arcane heavy campaign. So most NPC's will be able to make the Spellcraft Check which is also very easy to hit past lvl 5-6. Does the same thing happen against a high level illusion spell?

He should cast the spell before the fight begins, or between fights to bypass fights altogether. Silent spell is also useful, provided that he is out of sight or invisible. Since an illusion is not a direct attack it won't even break the invisibility. Subtle illusions are great because foes that don't interact with a spell or study it carefully don't get a save. Place them off to the side where they won't get noticed, like a wall on a side passage, or to hide the party in a corner, or etc. The permanent ones like illusory wall, permanent image and programmed image are even better because you can easily cast them way ahead of time undetected.

If you get into splatbooks then besides silent spell there are feats like nonverbal spell to make your verbal component sound like something else.