A Complex Question on Eldritch Disciple

[velikch]

Okay, first off - hi everyone! I've been lurking your forums for longer than I can remember (a decade?) but never felt the need to actually join until now...that is, now that I have a VERY difficult question that could summarily be given to "DM discretion" (or may actually have a solid answer out there that I just haven't been able to find myself).

So Eldritch Disciple has a few nifty abilities that I really like, but my question specifically has to do with Eldritch Spellweave (which lets me add an eldritch essence invocation to any divine spell I cast, as per the wording) and the particular problem is that it increases the spell's casting time to 1 full round action (assuming its casting time is less than 1 full round action).

The problem with this is when you cross this wording with spells such as "Close Wounds" (Spell Compendium). What do you do when the spell has a casting time of "Immediate" and you are using it outside your own turn? Does your initiative reset and you lose the rest of your round? Or does it make sense to assume (despite the fact that there's no errata to this effect) that it only works on divine spells that you cast during your turn?

[AmberVael]

The problem with this is when you cross this wording with spells such as "Close Wounds" (Spell Compendium). What do you do when the spell has a casting time of "Immediate" and you are using it outside your own turn?

Applying Eldritch Spellweave modifies the action taken to cast the spell. If you can't take that action, you can't cast an Eldritch Spellweave modified spell.

Immediate Actions are their own kind of actions, rather than being a modifier of other actions. You don't have "immediate standard actions" or the like- something is either an immediate action, or a standard action, or any other kind of action.

Close Wounds normally takes 1 immediate action. Modified by Eldritch Spellweave, it takes a full-round action, and thus loses the qualities that an immediate action spell would have- such as being able to be performed outside your turn.

So, the essential answer to your question is "you can't even do that."

[Psyren]

It's simpler than you think. You need a full-round action to cast a Spellwoven spell; if you don't have one, you can't use ES. Since you never have a full-round action outside of your turn, it simply means you can't use Eldritch Spellweave when it's not your turn. (You can still cast Close Wounds normally without it.)

It's no different than a Sorcerer trying to apply metamagic to an immediate-action spell - their only option is to cast the spell normally. (Barring exceptions like Rapid Metamagic, the PHB2 thing etc.)

Ninja'ed by Vael

[Ashheart]

A spell with a casting time of "Immediate" can be cast outside of your turn.
A spell with a casting time of "Full Round" takes up your entire round.

IMO, this means that a spell with a casting time of "Immediate" that is altered by an effect such as you're describing can only be cast in your own turn.

I hope this helps.

EDIT: Double ninja'd!

[velikch]

Thanks everyone! It wasn't explicitly stated so it was more wishful thinking on my part, but I appreciate all of your feedback!


It's no different than a Sorcerer trying to apply metamagic to an immediate-action spell - their only option is to cast the spell normally. (Barring exceptions like Rapid Metamagic, the PHB2 thing etc.)

That's a really good observation! Thanks!