help and inspiration for a necropolitan needed

[Guizonde]

hi guys, my dm has recently turned one of my old characters into a necropolitan, but there's two problems.

-i have no idea how to build a necropolitan.
-i have no inspiration for what my character should become.

my character used to be a level 5 halfling paladin (LG), with pretty ok stuff. after 3 weeks alone and stranded in the fortress of elemental evil, she's died an appropriately gruesome death, and has been reborn a necropolitan. all i know:
(spoiled for length of info)
*the original character sheet has been destroyed in a kitchen fire, so the dm has allowed me to reroll her stats.
*she's a halfling.
*she is now true neutral alignment.
*she was a paladin, and my dm has said that an undead paladin (halfling to boot) will never fly fluffwise. no, not even greyguard, blackguard, or anything. no paladin.
*unless he thinks about it otherwise, i'm to assume i'm level 1 (it wasn't a crucimigration that the character went through, so let's assume that to be reborn took my alignment and 5 levels)
*i'm suffering from amnesia, so my character has no memories of her past as paladin.
*mental stability wanted to say something, but she left an hour ago muttering incoherently about paranoia.
*unless authorized by the dm, i'm to assume i've got not one bit of equipment.

i was thinking about doing the classic antihero shtick, so an undead going CG fighting evil, or even sticking TN, with an undead necromancer kicking evil's army's butt.
he's basically given me a license to create any character as long as it sticks fluffwise. i was thinking about going ranger/scout/tracker (i really want to try out the pf scout archetype). an undead who's good at hiding and tracking its prey, but i'd have to see how i was taught all this.
since my character was very devout in life, going cleric/necromancer could be fun (it'll be an undead pc campaign), but it hits a roadblock since the character has no memory of life. also, the god in question was pelor... yeah...
it's assumed my character will rage against those who turned her undead. could it be fun to build a halfling barbarian or warrior? the martial training could be handwaved as muscle memory sticking into unlife.

do you guys have any build ideas that could be fun and flavorful for a halfling necropolitan-ified against her will? how do i roll a natural necropolitan? will i roll 4d6-1 for the CON score, or do i leave it blank to avoid having a straight dump stat? any synergy between halfling racial advantages and necropolitan advantages? any problems with being good and undead? what should be a worry for me when building the character?

truly, i appreciate all your help in advance, i will post my stats as soon as i see my dm, so there might be nothing until sunday, thanks for your patience.

edit: unless otherwise specified, 3.5 is assumed to be the rule (although if i can be coherent about it, he'll allow class archetypes, like the above PF scout archetype for the ranger class)

[drax75]

Or to be weird you could go LE, and play a Evil Monk. Might be funny to see a undead hafling monk. Plus you this would make you useful even with 0 items on your person.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

This Bard build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252815#4), but skip the Intimidate skill stuff due to race/size, just be sure you have enough ranks to qualify for everything.

[ArcturusV]

Well, it'd make sense to me, and the direction I'd go, is towards a more martial character. You might have amnesia but the muscle memory and deeper ideas beyond personality, identity, etc, should probably be there. So depending on how you played the Paladin should give you an insight towards how you might play the Necropolitan. Of course modified but it should be thematic. Less going from a Greatsword bashing Paladin who barely had spellcasting to a full blow wizard, etc. Not that you have to stick with something like Greatsword Fighter. But it'd be interesting (Least if it was me) there was some vague recollection of natural fighting styles and your new character was something like... a Rogue who fought with a two handed spear.

Eh. I dunno. Hard to say without knowing more about the Paladin in question (Also your Mount since you were high enough up for that, and how it played a roll). Ideally I'd go with something that is different... but has hints of the past life.

Course allowing you to play what you want is also a big thing. So if your Paladin was a Mounted Combat sort you might end up with an Archer Ranger who fights Mongolian Horde style with horseback (Or considering Halfing, Dogback) archery.

[Guizonde]

This Bard build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252815#4), but skip the Intimidate skill stuff due to race/size, just be sure you have enough ranks to qualify for everything.

seeing as how the other character is going to be a (hopefully heavily-nerfed) spectre, i don't think i should become a fear-o-tron. that, and it looks a bit cheesy for my dm's taste. i'd like to keep it relatively simple, too.

@arcturus: my dm actually didn't authorize me to get a cool mount (he really hated the idea of a halfling paladin, for fluff reasons), so all i had was a riding dog (i wanted a war pony, because you can't imagine that with a straight face), i charged in with shield and mace and tarpit everything. i hated undead with a passion, and i was a very no-nonsense kind of paladin (shell-shocked veteran, not stick up the rear end). pragmatic was the keyword. i also had something like the ability to throw out 15 heal spells/ lay on hands. so i was really a tarpit in combat, and a healer out of combat. the perfect support.
my mount was secondary. had i survived (that feels weird saying), i'd have gone on a quest to get me some mount i would have bonded with, but sadly it never happened.
is there a way to build a fighter that relies on stealth, ambushes, and strategy? my character was a veteran of the war against iuze during the events of the return to the temple of elemental evil, so i'll go with a pretty sound head for strategy. it was also the reason i was thinking about the scout archetype.
your idea of keeping a theme of muscle reflex and bonding to certain tactics pleases me greatly, but maybe that's the mental image of halftila the pun(y):

over the ridge rode the undead on their steppe-shepards. wielding a warsling in one hand, a halfling war kazoo in the other, her name was feared across the land: halftila!:smallbiggrin:
that, or sneak attacking with a flanged mace. fun too!

edit: i forgot, she knows her name: brutehilde. her inspiration was walkyries.

is it viable for a fighter to get mounted combat? won't the mount get scared by an undead rider? i guess it could go into either rogue, ranger, barbarian, or warrior by this point, seeing as how it'd be tough to explain why i've still got divine magic (let alone arcane)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Just go Dread Necromancer, then. After its 8th level maybe prestige out unless you're going with an army-of-undead shtick, since it counts your class level toward HD of undead controlled instead of caster level. Take the feats Magical Training and Versatile Spellcaster, add more spells to that spellbook, and use Versatile Spellcaster to cast them using two DN spell slots.

[ArcturusV]

Well for the sneaky cunning Fighter you might want to look at the Thug Variant from Unearthed Arcana (Open Source I believe so it should be available online).

A fighter is... kinda viable as a Mounted Combatant. Depends on how your DM is of course. Getting a "mindless" mount could always help like a Skeletal Horse (Apply the Bone Template to a Warpony, boom, you're golden). Or a Golem of some sort I suppose. The only real downside to Mounted Combat fighters is A) DMs who do not provide adventures where you can effectively use your mount. B) DMs who are sadistic about shooting out mounts and do not provide for mount protection.

[8wGremlin]

Your GM, has just handed you one of the most broken builds around!


Warlock 1, Summon Swarm Invocation
Undead Halfling, so will not suffer Con Damage
feat: Dark Speach (need WILL save bonus of +5, not base save, bonus)
INT needs to be 15, CHA needs to be 16



use Dark Speech to create a hivemind on your summoned swarm...
Laugh Evilly, as your swarm devastates the world at your behest


Go read Dark Speech in Fiendish Codex II, especially the bit about hiveminds

Now play it as a Renfield (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renfield) from dracula ...

[Urpriest]

Your GM, has just handed you one of the most broken builds around!


Warlock 1, Summon Swarm Invocation
Undead Halfling, so will not suffer Con Damage
feat: Dark Speach (need WILL save bonus of +5, not base save, bonus)
INT needs to be 15, CHA needs to be 16



use Dark Speech to create a hivemind on your summoned swarm...
Laugh Evilly, as your swarm devastates the world at your behest


Go read Dark Speech in Fiendish Codex II, especially the bit about hiveminds

Now play it as a Renfield (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renfield) from dracula ...

Can't use Dark Speech on a swarm, since it's one creature.

[Soranar]

Hum, your problem mostly lies in the fluff. A necropolitan halfling is hardly a pushover.

However,l this is the temple of elemental evil we're talking about. This is a fairly difficult campaign (there's a reason why you're dead...), I highly recommend tier 1 or 2 classes for it. That or highly optimized tier 3 (depends on your team to see which roles need filled)


option A, go sorcerer

fluff justification

After your death you discovered your hatred let you tap into your personal magic and you are now hunting down those who turned you into what you are

optimization justification

You get to use your CHA as your main stat (helps fluff wise as your CHA was high as a paladin), CHA is also your stat for concentration checks as an undead.

option B, cleric

use the alternate class feature cloistered cleric (trade minor things for more skillpoints and a 3rd domain)

fluff justification

All you remember from your past life is your time spent studying yet you remember them more clearly than ever before,you also forgot how to fight.

worship a deity with the undeath domain

optimization justification

all the tradeoffs from taking cloistered cleric are fixed by being undead and , eventually, having the spell divine power

again, a high Charisma is useful to a cleric (for turning or bolstering undead, which will help you prevent evil clerics from taking control of you)

Why I don't recommend martial classes

-first of all, they're simply too weak for TOEE
-second, classses with a high hitpoints benefit very little from being undead (and for barbarians it's downright detrimental since you don't have a Con score)
-3rd,you're a halfling so if you mean to fight in melee (without a mount, which your DM opposes for some reason) it becomes problematic. BTW, if you are fighting from a mount then use a lance, you get double damage when you charge with one from atop a mount

[8wGremlin]

Can't use Dark Speech on a swarm, since it's one creature.

Actually you can

Dark speech has a part that specifically states you can do this. It's called dark unity. It's on page 85 of fiendish codex 1

[Urpriest]

Actually you can

Dark speech has a part that specifically states you can do this. It's called dark unity. It's on page 85 of fiendish codex 1

Interesting, hadn't known that FCI widened the applicability to swarms. Of course, it's arguable that the inclusion of 3.5 swarms means it should now refer to the 3.5 definition of hivemind, here:

Hive Mind (Ex)

Any hellwasp swarm with at least 1 hit point per Hit Die (or 12 hit points, for a standard hellwasp swarm) forms a hive mind, giving it an Intelligence of 6. When a hellwasp swarm is reduced below this hit point threshold, it becomes mindless.

Rather than the absurdly broken BoVD version.

[8wGremlin]

Interesting, hadn't known that FCI widened the applicability to swarms. Of course, it's arguable that the inclusion of 3.5 swarms means it should now refer to the 3.5 definition of hivemind, here:


Rather than the absurdly broken BoVD version.

True, but that is a specific hellwasp swarm hivemind

Broken beyond belief - yes
RAW - yes

[Rubik]

Halfling war-rider paladin has evolved!

Halfling war-rider paladin has become a necropolitan crusader!

Go Halfling necropolitan crusader!

Add in some cleric and some ruby knight vindicator and you're good to go.

[edit] And take the Wild Cohort feat for an animal companion, to boot.

[Guizonde]

Tanks for all the suggestions, i'm thinking it over. Quickly, since i'm using à friend's tablet, of note:

*the dm's banned warponies only. Not mounts in general.
*i'll see what my char remembers exactly, but i fear at most muscle memory remains
*the campagne is not the temple, it's the war surrounding it.

See you all sunday, i'll hâve mulled it over And talked it out. The campaign is set to strat in six weeks, roughly.

Thanks again

[Gildedragon]

Might be a bit late to the party but martial-wise go for monk/swordsage for shadow sun ninja. Especially if you're with living folks in the party.

Fluff: though dead and removed from your previous grace you still bear the indeledible mark of having once been a knight of the gods. Fusing that with the negative energy that fuels you provides you with your powers

[Guizonde]

Might be a bit late to the party but martial-wise go for monk/swordsage for shadow sun ninja. Especially if you're with living folks in the party.

Fluff: though dead and removed from your previous grace you still bear the indeledible mark of having once been a knight of the gods. Fusing that with the negative energy that fuels you provides you with your powers

honestly, i hadn't thought of that. no need to worry regarding living folks, the dm is going for a ragtag bunch of corpses killed in the tharizdun/iuze war coming back in a "dead man walking" mentality. our mission is to get killed to death (again) while doing the most damage possible.

i broached the subject with my dm, and the idea of having muscle memory and some traumas remaining pleased him immensely, since he had in mind that all our characters would suffer from harsh flashbacks of a past life.

the halfling vindictive fighter sounds really cool, and he's ok with my idea of going full-on martial, losing all divine magic completely (how would that even work?! do i hurt myself whenever i cast or hold my holy symbol?) although the idea of converting to st. cuthbert (correct me if i'm wrong, but TN god of vengeance) did cross my mind to go crusader or cleric.
fluff
undead and hating it, brutehilde remembers very little of her past life. she was devout, but cannot remember her cause. she is now filled with a burning hatred, and seeks retribution for how she's been wronged. she's on the warpath to seek out and destroy those foul creatures who have deprived her of eternal rest.

when i asked him if it was viable to go the guerilla route, he balked at first, but the fluff behind it kinda pulled off using a ranger archetype (losing A LOT of advantages to become an exceptionnal ambusher)
fluff
forced to survive for weeks inside the fortress of elemental evil, brutehilde and her barbarian teammate had to use guile, cunning, and stealth to avoid capture while doing the utmost to survive. having seen the effects of a lack of stealth, and the ensuing horde, both teamed up to pull of devastating ambushes, taking on groups of enemies by themselves. she has become proficient in tracking, stealth, and ambushes as a result, survival of the fittest being a harsh teacher.

regarding dread necromancers, both he and i basically said "yeah, right. like my character will do that". for a halfling paladin hell-bent on breaking undead, summoning undead is too wrong (even if i berate and rebuke them, and break them later). it could be a great build (most likely is), but it's not right for this character. (then again, the party's got other members...:smallamused:)

DM:"skeletal war ponies?...*muffled snickering*" so, that answers that question :smallannoyed: . he did say that possibly a huge beetle, a reptile, or a gnoll could work as a mount, but frankly, it seems more trouble than it's worth, unless you guys have got a really cool build. (or crusader, now that i think of it)

@ soranar: concerning your sorceror idea, my dm spit out the exact same argument for me to go arcane, without even me saying anything about it. that was cool! but i don't really want to have to learn to be an arcane caster for such a specific kind of caster. (i've never played arcane casters. sue me)

it's official, the wild elf barbarian's spectre will be bound to me. that is cool, i guess fire-forged friends do last after death after all! oh, and he will be beastly.

tl;dr: down to two choices basically:
-smashy: fighter or crusader, angry
-sneaky: rogue, ranger, scout, ambusher

[Guizonde]

holy pelor! 14 page archive trawl!

anywho, here i am with my rolls (4d6 drop lowest):

11, 16, 12, 12, 17, 15

now, according to the necropolitan template, i drop one, due to the fact that i've got no constitution, right? this means that now i've got left:

-, 16, 12, 12, 17, 15

i also start out with 12hp flat. (we've houseruled that lvl1 is automatic full hp... something about a wizard with 1hp, i believe).

after thinking about it quite a bit, i'm going ranger (pf variant).
my reasons are twofold: fluffwise, the last things my halfling could remember were fear, undead (grrr hatehatehate!), pain, torture, traps, hiding, and combat.
crunchwise, i'll enjoy playing hit and run (something i've never done in pen and paper)
thus, i'll go for a guerilla intensive build with favored enemies undead.
being a halfling, i'm sure my dm will swap out combat style (archery) for (sling).
(i've got permission to use the PFsrd for halflings too... seems like it's gonna be pf characters in a 3.5 game)

so now, i've got this to fill out:

name: brutehilde the unliving
sex: yes, please (female...)
race: halfling necropolitan
class: ranger 1
hp:12
strength:(-2) (12-2) 10
dexterity:(+2)(17+2) 19
constitution:-
intelligence:12
wisdom:15
charisma:(+2) (16+2) 18

are my choices judicious? should i rather throw my 16 into wisdom rather than charisma? i thought i heard that charisma was very important to undead, replacing their constitution when checks get involved...

oh, and here are the ressources i used:

undead subtype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types#TOC-Undead)
necropolitan (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Necropolitan_(3.5e_template))
halfling (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/halfling)
ranger (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger)
and the silly archetype that prompted this entire idea of a paranoid undead-hunting undead halfling (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/battle-scout)

please help me make her the most efficient possible crunch-wise, and do not hesitate to ask for more info. this character means a lot to me, help me give her her blaze of well-deserved glory. :smallsmile:

thanks in advance, you guys rock!

[ArcturusV]

Self-Loathing Undead eh?

[Guizonde]

Self-Loathing Undead eh?

well, once the flashbacks kick in, that's how i'll play it. first by hating myself and how i failed to protect my buddies (bound spectre to my person), then rather than wallowing in self-pity, either go out in a blaze of glory or kick as much undead/evil butt as undeadly possible, then go and try and become living again (if possible. don't tell me it's not possible, it could make for great roleplay) :smallbiggrin: