Help making DCs

[fl_swat]

Our group has made a fort out of an underground cave system and expect to need to use it soonish. We have set up several traps, but need some DCs that we can't find or simple don't exist. I would like some DMs to throw in your opinion of what you think an appropriate DC should be on each.... whether its in a book or made up based on whats fair. The invasion force will be orcs and half orcs in an essentially pitch black cave system (I know they have dark vision).

1. We have nets hanging about 20 feet in the air that are full of firewood (5ft sphere roughly), but covered with specially made tarps to match the cave colors and large enough to cover the wood filled nets. There is a hempen rope (for the darker color) holding the net up until we release it. I need a spot DC for these.

2. We plan on dropping the above trap at each end of a hallway and lighting them on fire as well as straw that will be covering the floor between the two piles of wood. I need a Str DC for the orcs to move the burning piles of wood (if they so chose) and a reflex DC to ensure they don't push a weak piece of the pile and fall into it. Also, we plan on having 6 inches of straw on the floor, so how many rounds do you think they should take 1d6 fire damage for standing in it before the straw is burned up?

3. We plan on having hallways with two 2x4 pieces of wood suspended 20 feet in the air with one Molotov cocktail per 5ft square below. There is a hempen rope (for the darker color) holding the net up until we release it. I need a spot DC for these. I also need a reflex save for the falling fun time!

4. We have areas with 45 degree slopes that will be covered with soap to make the surface slippery. What would be the spot DC to see nearly clear soap smeared on the ground? Need a DC for normal speed and running speed. Also, what would you give for a reflex save to avoid slipping and falling (both speeds). Then, if someone in front of the NPC falls what would be the reflex DC to avoid tripping on them (at both speeds). Also, if someone behind the NPC falls then what would be the reflex DC to avoid getting knocked down by that person (again both speeds).

4. After placing soap on the ground as above, we would like to also add in some oil in a few areas so when they fall they are covered in it. When/if they catch on fire and have this oil on them what type of effect should it have? How much more damage taken, time to put it out if focused on it vs just letting it wear off.

FYI, our DM liked this idea and said as long as the DCs are reasonable then he will allow them to happen as enemies encounter them.

Feel free to ask questions and leave constructive comments. I'll be able to respond tomorrow.

Thanks in advance for the help.

[rockdeworld]

First, note that you can alter the DC (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#mechanicalTrapCost) and it is directly proportional to the cost. A trap with a DC30 reflex save costs 3000gp more than one with a DC20 save. If your DM is letting you get away with not paying for the traps, make all the DCs 40! If you can't or don't want to do that, you have 2 options that I see:

A. Set all the DCs to 11. 1st and 2nd level Orc/Half-Orc warriors have +0 Reflex saves, so that gives them 50% on every trap. If you think their levels will be higher, you can adjust accordingly (+1/3 per level, round down). This also guarantees you minimum construction costs.

B. Make them up based on what you think they should be. Here are my thoughts:

1. I think you mean Search DC, not Spot, since it's a trap. You can make that up too, based on how well you think your camouflage works (although in the traps section, camouflage pretty much equates to DC24). All your enemies without class levels have -1 search, so setting the search DC to 20 means they would never find them. Setting it to 10 gives them a 50% chance. Given that you're up against an army, you can expect a search check from basically everyone, or at least the top scouts, after the first trap goes off, so a higher DC is ok.
Is the point of the first trap to cause falling damage from the firewood? Depending on how big the nets are, each enemy in the area would be hit with more damage, and depending on how big each piece of firewood is it will do more or less damage. Here's my suggestion:

Falling Logs
CR 2; mechanical; location trigger; no reset; Atk +13 ranged (2d4 logs per target for 1d6 each); multiple targets (2d4 logs at each target in a 10' area); Search DC 18; DD DC 18; Market Price: 200 gp

2. Rather than a reflex DC, I would probably just rule that if they fail the Str check by 5 or more, they screw up and fall into the pile. Less dice rolls for the DM are always better. However, falling logs wouldn't really create a big pile unless you have a seriously large amount of logs, and there's no RAW rule for how that would even function AFAIK, unless you treat it like a cave-in (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/dungeons.htm#caveInsAndCollapsesCr8). As for the Str DC, I'd again say it depends on how much wood you have. As for the straw, I'd rule it like Web (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/web.htm).
This also modifies the trap, and I'll note it here:

Flaming Falling Logs Over Straw
CR 3; mechanical; location trigger; no reset; Atk +13 ranged (2d4 logs per target for 1d6 each, special); multiple targets (2d4 logs at each target in a 10' area); Search DC 18; DD DC 18; Market Price: 300 gp

Special: Characters hit by a falling log must make a reflex save (DC 18) to avoid being buried in a pile of fallen debris. Characters take 1d6 points of fire damage per round while buried. Characters who aren’t buried can dig out their friends. In 1 round, using only her hands, a character can clear wood and debris equal to five times her heavy load limit. The amount of loose wood that fills a 5-foot-by-5-foot area weighs about half a ton (1,250 pounds). Armed with an appropriate tool, such as a shovel, a digger can clear loose wood twice as quickly as by hand. You may allow a buried character to free himself with a DC 15 Strength check.
Further, the falling logs ignite straw on the ground. Characters who made the first save must succeed on another reflex save (DC 18) or take 2d4 fire damage from the burning straw. Buried creatures get no save to avoid this affect.

3. Falling Firebombs
CR 1; mechanical; attached touch trigger; no reset; Atk +13 ranged (1d6, Alchemist's Fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#alchemistsFire)); multiple targets (1 vial per 5' square, 4 squares in a row); Search DC 18; DD DC 18; Market Price: 100 gp

4. The search DC for nearly-clear soap is probably about the same as for a poison-covered doorknob, 25, but again you have to consider what you're up against and adjust accordingly. No extra DC is needed for running speed; it's already in the rules. No reflex save for avoiding someone in front of or behind you who trips; RAW assumes you're moving tactically anyway. As for oil; the section on Catching on Fire has what you're looking for:

If a [character covered in oil]’s clothes or hair catch fire, he takes 1d6 points of damage immediately. In each subsequent round, the burning character must make another Reflex saving throw. Failure means he takes another 1d6 points of damage that round. Success means that the fire has gone out. (That is, once he succeeds on his saving throw, he’s no longer on fire.)

A character on fire may automatically extinguish the flames by jumping into enough water to douse himself. If no body of water is at hand, rolling on the ground or smothering the fire with cloaks or the like permits the character another save with a +4 bonus.

Those unlucky enough to have their clothes or equipment catch fire must make DC 15 Reflex saves for each item. Flammable items that fail take the same amount of damage as the character.
So basically, you have something like this:

Slippery Slope Trap
CR 1; mechanical; location trigger; manual reset; DC 18 Reflex save avoids; Special; multiple targets (first 5 targets who walk on the slop); Search DC 18; Disable Device DC 18. Market Price: 100 gp.

Special: Characters who fail their reflex saves fall and slide to the bottom of the slope, where they are covered in lantern oil.


Anyway, good luck with your plan!

[fl_swat]

First, note that you can alter the DC (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#mechanicalTrapCost) and it is directly proportional to the cost. A trap with a DC30 reflex save costs 3000gp more than one with a DC20 save. If your DM is letting you get away with not paying for the traps, make all the DCs 40! If you can't or don't want to do that, you have 2 options that I see:

Yea, this is to add some flavor and fun, not for traps to demolish them all for us. Thats no fun. They aren't traditional traps that the orcs would trigger. This is more for us fighting some, runing back, fighting, and so on and as we come up on the traps we would release the ropes holding such traps up.



1. I think you mean Search DC, not Spot, since it's a trap. You can make that up too, based on how well you think your camouflage works (although in the traps section, camouflage pretty much equates to DC24). All your enemies without class levels have -1 search, so setting the search DC to 20 means they would never find them. Setting it to 10 gives them a 50% chance. Given that you're up against an army, you can expect a search check from basically everyone, or at least the top scouts, after the first trap goes off, so a higher DC is ok.
Is the point of the first trap to cause falling damage from the firewood? Depending on how big the nets are, each enemy in the area would be hit with more damage, and depending on how big each piece of firewood is it will do more or less damage. Here's my suggestion:

I meant spot because they will either be in combat fighting us or chasing after us which means they won't be searching. I wanted to give them a spot check to be fair until they started searching. The falling wood is more to fall in front and behind a group of them in a hallway and then we set it on fire. The point is not so much trying to crush them with the wood.

This information was very helpful. Thanks for the input.

[Diarmuid]

So the ropes have to be readily available for you to move to and release/cut so the logs will fall. Without some kind of survival roll or trapmaking roll to conceal the ropes I dont see there being anything other than maybe a DC 5 Spot check to see a rope hanging from an apparatus but honestly it's probably just there to be seen. Since there is no facing in 3.5, you have to imagine anything in line of sight to be seen/processed by everyone unless otherwise noted.

The tarp itself, while having a matching color...will likely stand out pretty well in it's uniformity of color/texture against the backdrop of a cave cieling. I wouldnt give that more than a DC 10 to spot them, but that doesnt mean you know what they are/mean. Again, some kind of craft/profession/survival (maybe) roll might be used to help make them more difficult to Spot.

To set a frame of reference, you can read the lips of someone you're 30 feet away from with a DC 15 spot check. That's a lot harder than going "hey, there's a rope over there" or "hey, those parts of the cieling look different than the rest". Again, unless some kind of opposed roll is made to help craft these traps so that they are harder to find (but again, should result in higher costs/time due to additional resources and attention being used).

[Gildedragon]

I'd say figure out the search DC, add 2 for the pursuers not being focused on doing it and ten 5-10 more for spotting which is a free action as opposed to search (full round action)