Core 3 Tucker's Kobolds Tactics Sought

[Muktidata]

Party is ECL3 Core-only characters. We take turns DM'ing and I'm up next. I think I'll be mean and run Tucker's Kobolds (http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/). The BBEG will be a Bearded Devil (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#beardedDevilBarbazu) if they can ever reach him.

Basically, Tucker's Kobolds are just regular 1hp Kobolds from the MM1 but played using their slight build to their advantage. You create honey comb-style tunnels along the walls of the dungeon and have them popping out from every side. They use poisons, flammables, and unusual traps to barrage the PC's.

My problem is that I'm not overly familiar with medieval war tactics and I have little experience creating dungeons. Using the Core 3 books (MM1,PHB,DMG), what kind of nasty stuff would you think to do?

A cauldron of oil spilled on the party followed by a barrage of flaming arrows? Or maybe just leave them oily for awhile and see if they decide to risk holding their torches?

Pit traps with vipers at the bottom? Large pit traps with creatures with swim speeds and enough water for PC's to drown under at the bottom?

See, I'm uncreative. But you're not! Help me out.

[Amphetryon]

Have the kobolds fire crossbow bolts tipped with sleep poison (or another poison of your choosing) and alchemical flasks from murder-holes along elevated areas of the corridors; have them move after each round fired or thrown, so that the party's (difficult) shot at retaliation is further limited.

[Matticussama]

Make sure that the Kobolds use their slight build to squeeze through tunnels that the players can't follow them through; use this to grant cover and concealment, so that they can attack with impunity unless the party is very careful. Combine with webs or rope traps/nets that entangle, so that AoEs (like flasks of Oil, Alchemist Fire and Acid) can spread and do damage to everyone as it burns away.

[Fouredged Sword]

The fact that the BBEG is medium means that the way to his chamber must also be medium.

So, Kobold Trickery...

The idea is that everything is trapped. There are lots of bracades designed to slow down the party and allow the koblods to get a round of crossbow bolts into them without retaliation.

The party is in a 15 ft wide hallway. They are chasing a retreating group of kobold skermishers who just shot at them with crossbow bolts. They turn a corner to find an iron gate with bars wide enough for a tiny creature to squeeze through, but nothing bigger. Behind that gate is three kobolds with tower shields. Behind them is 9 kobolds with light crossbows. In unison the shield kobolds drop their cover and allow the crossbowmen to fire. They then reraise their shields, preventing counter attack. Now the party has to cut through the gate before they can reach the kobolds. As soon as they look like they will succeed the kobolds turn and bolt down the hallway in an orderly single file line around a corner, leading the group over a pit trap that only activates if it has more than 50 lbs on it (kobolds weigh less than that).

[Gwendol]

What is the party like? Number of PC's and classes, please.

[Kaveman26]

*Caltrops...never forget the caltrops.

*Thick and thorny brambles that rip and shred medium sized creatures but not kobolds work well too.

*if you pull the PC's into a narrow tunnel, the tunnel should be oiled/greased and then lit on fire. A medium creature can squeeze into a small space. You want them to try.

*If anyone in the party can speak Draconic they should be tipped off to the kobolds calmly discussing cooking methods they use for when they eventually kill the PC's.

[Amphetryon]

The fact that the BBEG is medium means that the way to his chamber must also be medium.

Doesn't mean there aren't also ways to his chamber (built in along the walls like servant's corridors) that are small, favoring the Kobolds over any medium PCs.

[Tengu_temp]

Bear in mind that Tucker's Kobolds appeared first in an AD&D game, when PCs didn't have as many tools to their disposal as in 3e, and that they depend on a number of DM fiats, like not letting the PCs shoot back through the murder holes. Don't expect them to be as murderous in actual play as in the story.

[Matticussama]

The fact that the BBEG is medium means that the way to his chamber must also be medium.

Bearded Devil Spell-Like Abilities: At will— greater teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only). Caster level 12th.


Of course, since you want some plausible way for the party to (potentially) reach the BBEG, you should probably have at least one hidden tunnel system medium sized creatures could traverse. Unless you have it Teleport in to fight the party when/if they do sufficient damage to the Kobolds to have them raise an alert.

[IncoherentEssay]

*snip* As soon as they look like they will succeed the kobolds turn and bolt down the hallway in an orderly single file line around a corner, leading the group over a pit trap that only activates if it has more than 50 lbs on it (kobolds weigh less than that).
Kobolds weight 35-45 lbs. Small Tower shields weight ~23 lbs. Whoops :smalltongue:? Let's hope the shieldbearers weren't in the lead, though the mental image is hilarious.

My point being, when getting clever with kobolds and their memetic deviousness, please pay close attentiong to how everything you are trying to do adds up. For example, murderholes. How large are they (what penalties /other limits to attacks do they impose? Will fireballs/other AoE spells spread through?) , how are they accessed (smaller tunnels are kobold only, but greatly limit the number of attackers and make supplying throwables much more difficult), what are the walls made of (What level of effort/types of effects can strip away their cover and what amount of wealth and effort did the kobolds expend to set up their stuff), etc.

You will need maps, highly detailed ones. Tunnels are not warp pipes after all.
You should also have a good idea of where the kobolds get all their stuff. Do they keep giant vermin for the poisons? Is there a greenhouse somewhere in the warrens for the non-verminous venoms :smalltongue:? Where are all the alchemy supplies coming from? How many kobolds need to die before the rest call it quits and switch to evacuation? What would they feed any critters in pits with? How do the kobolds communicate to each other during the fighting (potentially tipping the party off to something up ahead, maybe later using it against them)? If they use fire in their traps, how do they deal with the smoke? If they mess with oil a lot, how do they avoid getting it on themselves (oiled corridors & tunnels being the main culprit here)?

That is a lot of stuff to cover, but since the whole point of Tucker's kobolds is to force the PCs to think and get creative you kind of need to have the info to resolve any plans they come up with. Giving the kobolds endless resources and making stuff up as you go along undermines the whole point.

Also seconding this:

Bear in mind that Tucker's Kobolds appeared first in an AD&D game, when PCs didn't have as many tools to their disposal as in 3e, and that they depend on a number of DM fiats, like not letting the PCs shoot back through the murder holes. Don't expect them to be as murderous in actual play as in the story.

I think the original story is a terrible example of an otherwise good idea (smart tactics making otherwise weak critters into threats) due to the BS rulings (move-shoot-move with no return fire possible) to make it happen. Also the players were terrible.

But yeah, barricades and grates sized to stop medium creatures are good. Cheap poison needle traps on more-or-less everything to encourage paranoia and doubt, buying the kobolds time. Obvious pit traps achieve much the same thing, especially when paired with better-hidden ones.
Caltrops are nice and reusable. Just try to avoid pouring a small kingdoms worth of consumables on the party :smalltongue:.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The hallways should be littered with traps in preparation for intruders, the kobolds themselves use narrow tunnels to bypass all of those. A small creature can squeeze through a hole 30 inches in diameter without making a check. If you choose to still give them Slight Build (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) then they can squeeze through a hole only 15 inches in diameter without making any checks, plus up to four can occupy one square without penalty.

The only way to get to their living quarters where their females, young, and treasure are located is to navigate this winding maze of tunnels. These living quarters are exceptionally large and there's an unspecified (i.e. limitless) number of kobold warriors waiting there to pour out into the corridors when adventurers show up. There is no BBEG, there is no end to it or any means to 'win' or ultimately defeat the kobolds, there's only the stairs to the next level and escape from their wrath.

I'd put the Bearded Devil in a crumbling castle of some sort with enough 1-2 hd Skeletons, Lemures, and various other low-CR minions to maintain and defend it. Design an encounter in a large room in which the floor collapses and dumps the adventurers and whatever they're fighting into the catacombs and kobolds below. The PCs must find their way to the stairs back up into the castle or perish. I'd put some sort of obvious hazard in the room that the floor collapses into, something big and with tentacles should work. Just make the PCs fall into the room right next to the exit hallway, while all of their opponents fall nearer to the tentacle monster which promptly grabs them.

As for their tactics, here are a few things I've used:

A long hallway at a steep enough incline to incur Balance checks for running/charging, starting at the half way mark it's smeared with pitch making it severely slippery per Balance. At the end of the hallway is a large room with no floor, so a 20-50 ft. drop depending on how mean you are. At the bottom are sharpened and diseased stakes, and as many rat swarms as you want to throw in there. Around the edge of his room is a narrow ledge, how narrow depends on what you want the Balance DC to be. Above the hallway are some rooms, and there are some large holes in the ceiling. The kobolds have round hay bales up there as wide as the hallway, they'll light one on fire and roll down the hallway to chase the adventurers onto the pitch. The bales will of course light the pitch, and then the burning adventurers still fleeing from the hay bale will side off the edge and onto the sharpened stakes and rat swarms. The ceiling and high on the walls of the hallway and the room beyond have plenty of small windows through which the kobolds will pepper intruders with crossbow bolts.

Another room with no floor, again with diseased stakes and rat swarms at the bottom. Across the middle is a bridge constructed from a very large log. Again there are windows in the ceiling and high on the walls. It should be relatively quiet leading up to this point, but once the adventurers are half way across the log the kobolds will strike. One will release a catch that prevents the log from rolling, and of course it will dump anyone failing a balance check into the pit below. Kobolds will fire crossbows from the windows to make it even more difficult.

After a fight goes poorly for the kobolds one will flee down a side hallway. In this hallway is a pit trap but a single kobold doesn't weigh enough to trigger it, so it runs over it and anyone pursuing is probably going to fall in. At the bottom of the pit trap is a Gelatinous Cube, anyone who falls in is automatically engulfed just as if they'd walked into it. The walls of the pit are slick from the cube reaching up with its pseudopod in search of food. There are a few chutes in the walls of the pit through which garbage is deposited, they're too small to climb through but could be used as handholds, but none are close enough to the cube itself to be used immediately after escaping it. Anyone who escapes the cube must fly or climb off of it before the end of their turn or they'll be automatically engulfed again.

[Alienist]

The real beauty of Tucker's Kobolds wasn't that they ganged up on the party with the big boss. The real beauty of Tucker's Kobolds was that they sat on top of a much bigger dungeon, and charged a %fee of loot as a toll.

The aim is not to beat the players, the aim is to break them (or at least their pride), so that they hate the kobolds with a passion but are willing to pay the toll because its easier to pay the toll than fighting.

[Madeiner]

I run a tucker's kobold adventure before.
The hightlight was that the kobold's lair was inside a volcano. The "boss" didn't really fight, he just used a very complex contraption to pierce a hole in the wall, causing lava to flood the entire cave.

The PCs had to run away to the entrance, with all the small passages, enemies, and traps they managed to evade but not bothered to disable.
They had to try and run away, while i'd draw the lava flow round by round.
Those who decided to take the locked chests from the boss room had penalties to their speed.

They also encountered an optional boss in a room during the escape, which broke free due to the lava. The players decided to fight the boss anyway, and lava was filling the battleground round by round, so that they had little space by the end of the fight.

[Rubik]

Slight build doesn't exist in core. You'll have to use the web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) for that. Also, this. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155518)

[edit] I would place the kobolds in the otherwise unused catacombs below the devil's stronghold. They aren't related to the fiend above; they just happen to live below him. However, it's one of a few different ways to breach the stronghold's security -- it sounds like the easiest, but it's likely the hardest.

[Muktidata]

What is the party like? Number of PC's and classes, please.

Dwarf Cleric 2/Fighter 1
Dwarf Rogue 2/Fighter 1
Jungle Gnome Druid 3 with Riding Dog
Halfling Wizard 2/Cleric 1
Orc Fighter 2/Barbarian 1
Wood Elf Ninja 3 (host's daughter - we let her be a CAd Ninja)
Human Ranger 2/Fighter 1

[Fouredged Sword]

Be careful not to slaughter the party. Tuckers are a good threat for a level 6-10 party in large numbers. With a party this low level be careful not to overwhelm them with actions. They should not face more than 12 kobolds at once, even if the kobolds are level 1.

[Gwendol]

Especially with only the druid being single class caster.

[Synovia]

Bear in mind that Tucker's Kobolds appeared first in an AD&D game, when PCs didn't have as many tools to their disposal as in 3e, and that they depend on a number of DM fiats, like not letting the PCs shoot back through the murder holes. Don't expect them to be as murderous in actual play as in the story.

On the other hand, the characters in Tucker's Kobolds were much higher level than hes talking (ECL3). The original Tucker's Kobolds had a 12th level Wizard in the party.

Also, not letting the PCs shoot through murder holes isn't DM fiat. Thats what murder holes are for.

[lord_khaine]

Also, not letting the PCs shoot through murder holes isn't DM fiat. Thats what murder holes are for.

No.. it is in fact DM fiat, if there is room enough for you to shoot an arrow out of it, then there is certainly also enough room enough for someone to shoot one back though your eye.


Have the kobolds fire crossbow bolts tipped with sleep poison (or another poison of your choosing) and alchemical flasks from murder-holes along elevated areas of the corridors; have them move after each round fired or thrown, so that the party's (difficult) shot at retaliation is further limited.

Do remember that when you increase the kobolds treassure, then you also increase their challenge rating, and at some point you might as well just throw a couple of trolls at the party and call it a day.

[Fouredged Sword]

You can shoot through a murder hole. You just have to wait for the target to look out the murder hole to aim and shoot him.

Now he gets improved cover (+8 ac, +4 to reflex saves, free improved evasion), and it would be a free action to gain total cover by not looking through the murder hole, but it can be done.

They can also use the total cover to make a hide check to allow them to attempt to hide the fact that they shift to aim through the hole, leading it into a spot/hide check conflict to even be able to target them without firing blindly through the murder hole and hope for the 50% miss chance to come up for your benefit. Kobolds can have +8 to hide before skills or dex if you are giving them slight build per the web enhancement.

So yes, you can shoot at targets behind a murder hole. It is likely to do you no good, but you can try. The base flatfooted touch AC of a tiny target behind a murder hole is 20. Just saying.

[Muktidata]

I plan on customizing their skills and taking into account them performing or crafting for many years to up their wealth. I'll come back with total gold for them and a proposed dungeon/scenario. They will be very vocal and crafty, making deals with the party that they then go back on. The BBEG is in a totally separate area. Any ideas other than lava to make them want to run through the dungeon without checking for traps.

I have thought about Oozes in pit traps, but the garbage holes to climb out makes it seem a lot more fair. Definitely using that.

[Fouredged Sword]

Flooding water works well to cause running. Just have them crack the floor of an above ground lake and let in a leak through the roof.

For an encounter remember to account for any traps in the CR of the encounter. You will find the group rapidly facing encounters of CR6-7 if you start adding lots of traps, so be careful.

[Synovia]

No.. it is in fact DM fiat, if there is room enough for you to shoot an arrow out of it, then there is certainly also enough room enough for someone to shoot one back though your eye..

Yeah, you can shoot back at them. But they have concealment, and a big AC bonus. Basically, you only hit them rarely, and there's so many of them that its not worth it.

[Muktidata]

I've decided to break them down into groups:

Throwers
Archers
Trap Crafters
Poison Crafters
Money Makers

Throwers will be Fighters with Point Blank Shot and Weapon Focus:Acid Flask (or whatever they specifically carry)

Archers will be Fighters with Point Blank Shot and Weapon Focus: Hand Crossbow (carrying shields)

Trap Crafters I haven't decided the class for yet. But their feat will be Skill Focus: Craft (Whatever they focus on)

Money Makers will have Skill Focus: Perform (Whatever)

I'll have them start as a band of nasty kobolds that stayed together for... let's see.. 70 years crafting, building, performing in the towns to fund their treacherous lair.

[Story]

On the other hand, the characters in Tucker's Kobolds were much higher level than hes talking (ECL3). The original Tucker's Kobolds had a 12th level Wizard in the party.

Yes but the original party were also idiots. And it was AD&D too. A 9th level 3.5ed Wizard would trivialize the entire thing by himself.

[Fouredged Sword]

Maybe. He could, if he kept his thoughts about him. If, every time he cast a spell, he ate one or two readied crossbow bolts, he could be in trouble.

[Story]

Except the Wizard never even has to be in a position where he can be attacked if he doesn't want to be.

Being a mid level adventurer means you can Just Say No. Kobold warrens got you down? Just make your own tunnel. Or fly through invisible and gaseous/ethereal. Or infiltrate the kobolds via enchantment/polymorph/divination/whatever.

[Fouredged Sword]

Exactly. A mid level wizard can make a fool of most encounters with 1/3rd CR monsters. Really this should not be a surprise. The surprise is that a fighter or barbarian can be slaughtered by such an encounter. It does a lot to show the practicality of the tier system.

Not that most of the above party is at lease somewhat fighter. Beware that they have limited options in dealing with any given encounter and that you should account for that.

[GreenETC]

Just toss them a Stone Dragon Belt of Mountain Hammer and everything should turn out pretty fun.

[Fyermind]

I'd map out encounters very carefully. Ideally the average encounter is a CR 1-2 with a trick to minimizing damage but where actually killing the kobolds is very hard and puts the PCs at more risk.

I would run several encounters that were variations of two kobolds in a hard to reach place throw stones at you and retreat.

Also I would use a very finite number of kobolds. Say 30. You don't need many more. Their priority number 1 should always be stay alive.

Every encounter should have an escape hatch if they see things are going badly. They should have some inclination when that will be, and flee the round before.

I would start the adventure off by having the players greated by the kobolds who offer them some sort of trade. Perhaps the kobolds are trying to sell poison or gems, but more likely they are trying to buy off the counter items the players have. (tower shields, crossbows that can be fired from tight spaces, etc.)

Finally my last encounter would be a straight up melee with the remaining kobolds. No tricks. Just let the players have a bloodbath. They will have earned it.

[Rubik]

Finally my last encounter would be a straight up melee with the remaining kobolds. No tricks. Just let the players have a bloodbath. They will have earned it....and then make them feel bad when they learn the kobolds were merely defending their young from marauding adventurers. :smallamused: