Detect Magic EVIL SNOW DRAIN trick

[TheG]

Hello forum, i would share with you some of my thoughts on Locate City Fell Drain trick, with other divination spell, due to avoid the mass distruction effect and be focused on encounter:

The Base:


Detect Magic
(Player's Handbook v.3.5, p. 219)
Divination
Level: Bard 0, Blighter 0, Beguiler 0, Healer 0, Adept 0, Wu Jen 0, Wizard 0, Sorcerer 0, Cleric 0, Druid 0, Nentyar Hunter 1, Vigilante 1, Ebonmar Infiltrator 1, Hoardstealer 1, Dread Necromancer 1,
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 60 ft.
Area: Cone-shaped emanation
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
or

Detect Secret Doors
(Player's Handbook v.3.5, p. 220)
Divination
Level: Bard 1, Sorcerer 1, Wizard 1, Hoardstealer 1, Ebonmar Infiltrator 1, Vigilante 1, Beguiler 1, Knowledge 1,
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 60 ft.
Area: Cone-shaped emanation
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

or

Locate Water
(Sandstorm)
Divination
Level: Cleric 1, Druid 1, Ranger 1, Sorcerer 1, Wizard 1,
Components: V, S, AF, DF,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: Cone-shaped emanation
Duration: Concentration, up to 10 min./level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No


Metamagic:


Snowcasting
(Frostburn, p. 50)
[General]
You add ice or snow to your spell's components to make them more powerful.
Benefit
If you add a handful of snow or ice as an additional material component to a spell when you cast it, the spell gains the cold descriptor. (..)
+

Flash Frost Spell
( Player's Handbook II, p. 91)
[Metamagic]
Your spells that use cold and ice to damage your foes leave behind a thin layer of slippery frost.
Prerequisite
Benefit
This metamagic feat can be applied only to spells that have the cold descriptor and that affect an area. A fl ash frost spell deals an extra 2 points of cold damage per level of the spell to all targets in the area.(..) A fl ash frost spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.

here it is the first problem i met: Detect Magic is a lv0 spell so 0x2dmg=0 but i remembrer there was some rule or trick about 0lv spell counted as 1/2 lv or if the final level of the spell (slot) is counted with metamagic adj. (so lv min +1 in this case). Otherwise do you know some other trick to make it +1 dmg?

however, finishing touch:


Fell Drain
( Libris Mortis: The Book of the Dead, p. 27)
[Metamagic]
Living foes damaged by your spell also gain a negative level.
Benefit
You can alter a spell that deals damage to foes so that any living creature that is dealt damage also gains a negative level. (..) A fell draining spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell's actual level.

Now, i don't remember waht the sage said about Fell Drain and damage over rounds ('cose i would use the same ruling for ongoing spell for both felldrain and Flash Frost ) but just 1 minute of draining cone seems a lot to me.. in worst case scenario turn the head of the pg and re-affect any creature.... LOL

Starting package:


Human Spellcaster 1 (http://dndtools.eu/classes/spellcaster/) , 2 flaws
Feats: 1Lv 1Human 1Class 1Flaw 1Flaw

Snowcasting
FlashFrost (+1)
Fell Drain (+2)
Easy Metamagic #1
Easy Metamagic#2

Total Spell Lv Adj. +1

Enjoy your (2+bonus spells) 1 minute cone of draining energy + slippery ground + detect magic + some damage(1or2 depending on the rules)

[Tr011]

The starting package wouldn't work, because it's a level 0 spell with metamagic and thus still doesn't gain any extra damage.

If you use Arcane Thesis: Detect Secret Doors, you however can do it with Easy Metamagic: Fell Drain.
You then would have a CL of 3 for the spell and both metamagic feats would have an adjustment +0 for Detect Secret Doors. Enjoy 3 minutes of 1 point damage per round plus the negative level.

[Garwain]

using the detect magic spell instead of locate city is indeed a nifty trick. However, I don't believen either of them works due to the wording of flash frost spell:

This metamagic feat can be applied only to spells that have the cold descriptor and that affect an area. A flash frost spell deals an extra 2 points of cold damage
Detect magic doesn't really affect the area, it gives you information about the area (as does locate city). Furthermore the next sentence specifies what kind of 'affecting' is meant: namely damage. You add 2 extra damage, meaning you need to be able to staple it on top of another damage source. Which you don't have.

[TheG]

The starting package wouldn't work, because it's a level 0 spell with metamagic and thus still doesn't gain any extra damage.

If you use Arcane Thesis: Detect Secret Doors, you however can do it with Easy Metamagic: Fell Drain.
You then would have a CL of 3 for the spell and both metamagic feats would have an adjustment +0 for Detect Secret Doors. Enjoy 3 minutes of 1 point damage per round plus the negative level.

thx to the reply!
- i added locate water for extra range (60 to 400 ft cone! what a sniper). -

However arcane thesis has 9 ranks in Knw. Arcana so is aviable only at 6th level :(

but at the 4th level we gain lv2 spells (and gain another feat...maybe versatile spellcaster or Piercing Cold to affect also creatures immune to cold damage muhamuhamuha) to channel our evil imbued divination spells.


using the detect magic spell instead of locate city is indeed a nifty trick. However, I don't believen either of them works due to the wording of flash frost spell:

This metamagic feat can be applied only to spells that have the cold descriptor and that affect an area. A flash frost spell deals an extra 2 points of cold damage
Detect magic doesn't really affect the area, it gives you information about the area (as does locate city). Furthermore the next sentence specifies what kind of 'affecting' is meant: namely damage. You add 2 extra damage, meaning you need to be able to staple it on top of another damage source. Which you don't have.

In this case neither of detect X or Locate X spells would work :( .

However i always read that Locate City Bomb was a legittimate (but unfair) trick (despite someone argues that you need [B]Energy Admixture instead of Energy Substitution to qualify the spell for both Born Three Thunders and FlashFrost, and i personally agree.)

ImHo extra damage could work also if the spell deal 0 dmg +2 extra. infact it dont say damage per die like other feats (Pyro, Privileged energy etc.)

[TheG]

Little Bump:

i found that the previously posted version will not work due to the Easy Metamagic Restrictions. However, at 6th lv with Arcane Thesis the total cost of the spell is +0

if you want to play this at the minor LV possible try out this version:

Human lv 4: 2 Expert | 1 Spellcaster | 1 Cleric (cloistered)

8 Feats: 1 Lv1 1 Human bonus 2 Flaws 2 Expert bonus 1 Spellcaster bonus 1 Lv3
Domain: (Undeath + Planning + Knowledge)

1 Snowcasting
2 Flash Frost
3 Fell Drain
4 Divine Metamagic (Flash Frost)
5 Divine Metamagic (Fell Drain)
- Extend Spell (Planning Domain) -
6 Persistent spell
7 Divine Metamagic (Persistent)
8 Non Lethal Substitution (Cold)
- Extra Turning (Undeath Domanin) -

20 Wisdom > Turn Undead: (3+5)+4=12
Perisist Cost: 2 (Flash Frost) + 3 (Fell Drain) +7 (Perisistent Spell)

Enjoy your permanent cone of death all day long.

ps. if you know how to avoid protection from damage (and so on from energy drain ) let me know!

[Rainbownaga]

To me the wording of the fell drain implies it only triggers once per target per casting. Still a cool trick if you use metamagic reducers.