reaping mauler

[limejuicepowder]

Why does this class get so much hate? Don't get me wrong, it's by no means good, but it is usually charged with making a character worse at grappling. How is that?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

One of its prerequisites is Clever Wrestling, which requires you to be small or medium size. The bigger you are, the better you are at grappling. If a Reaping Mauler gets any bigger, he loses all of the class features of that class be cause he no longer qualifies for it. So to be better at grappling, you have to lose everything Reaping Mauler gives you.

[Starbuck_II]

Why does this class get so much hate? Don't get me wrong, it's by no means good, but it is usually charged with making a character worse at grappling. How is that?

Because it does make you worser if you go the RAI method of Qualifying.
As straight into it.
Look at the Preqs, remember size bonus adds to grapple from Enlarge person, etc.
Realize you lose the class when you use enlarge person: so best ways to boost grapple hurt you.

The work around I mentioned enough times on the internet that it caught on: Leviathan hunter, lets you qualify even when large size.

But that means best grapplers are rangers.

Now the class iself: It synergies nicely with ranger as you get Improved grapple in light armor. Why the heck does the clas give mobility?
Adept Wrestling is useful. Counter Grapple lets you escape easily (which is weird because you are supposed to be good at it).
Sleeper Lock requires pin, but is a decent effect.
Devasting Grapple is a save or die but requires 3 pin rounds.

[Keld Denar]

Save DCs are Wisdom based on a class that focuses on Str. Also, even if you enter it as soon as possible, you are still waiting until like, ECL 7-8 to get Imp Grapple as a bonus feat. Most people will take it earlier, which makes the bonus feat class feature worthless.

[Glimbur]

Also it is 3/4 BAB when BAB helps you grapple.

[limejuicepowder]

Well those are some pretty good reasons, I guess. I still kind of like the class though, for a few reasons -

I've always thought size increases to be a very inelegant solution to grappling, especially when it comes to rings of enlarge person, or permanency. There's a time and place for it, but in most games I play a 13' tall character is not going to work out. How do you even enter most buildings? Coming from the this perspective, Reaping Mauler looks a lot more appetizing.

Sleeper lock is a pretty decent ability, even if it is based on wisdom. Entering with monk or unarmed swordsage is good synergy, and not just for the wisdom.

Counter-Grapple is kind of odd, considering you shouldn't generally be trying to escape a grapple, but it does make you hard to pin if you face another grappler. Overall, it's niche but useful.

Alright so maybe it is pretty weak, since that about all I can say for it. Unfortunately, Clever Wrestling is even worse than I thought: it only applies it's bonus to ESCAPING a grapple or pin - is this class meant to grapple or not?

Edit: If anyone actually wanted to play this class, I would make the following changes -

1) Adept wrestling is +1 per level (note that this would make them strong trippers, as it applies to all str and dex checks as well)

2) Change the Clever Wrestling prereq to Improved Grapple, and gain Clever Wrestling as a bonus feat at 1st level

3) Clever Wrestling applies to all grapple checks, not just escapes

4) Sleeper lock and Devastating grapple are str-based

5) Counter grapple should instead allow the Mauler to make a grapple check and use the result of that check as his AC against anyone he is currently grappling.

[Spiryt]

I've always thought size increases to be a very inelegant solution to grappling, especially when it comes to rings of enlarge person, or permanency. There's a time and place for it, but in most games I play a 13' tall character is not going to work out. How do you even enter most buildings? Coming from the this perspective, Reaping Mauler looks a lot more appetizing.

?

Well, 3.5 is rather inelegant in general though.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You don't have to be large+ all the time, just use Expansion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/expansion.htm) and Grip of Iron (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/gripofIron.htm) at the start of each fight.

[The Random NPC]

If you are homebrewing, might I suggest taking a look at Freedom of Movement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/freedomOfMovement.htm)? The grappler should have some method of grappling normally grapple immune creatures.

[Gavinfoxx]

You should read these:

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870826/Black_Blood_Cultist_Handbook:_A_Grapplers_Manual
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=585.0


Basically... there's the idea, 'If I take a level of Warrior, is that better for Grappling than this prestige class?'

If the answer is YES, than your class sucks.

Remember, the Warrior can grapple just fine while in Full Plate with Armor Spikes and Spiked Gauntlets, after chugging a 50 gp potion of Enlarge Person.

If a Human Warrior 4 with 24 point buy, who dumps pretty much everything (including his +1) into strength, wearing the above, with Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, and Scorpion's Grasp, who just chugged that potion of Enlarge Person, is a better grappler than you are by level 8 or so? Than you have a problem...