[3.5] Frostrager Questions

[Chaosvii7]

Frostragers are, frankly, an amazing Barbarian prestige class. One of their most notable features is the large damage output generated from their unarmed attacks and rend ability, allowing them to put down weapons and get to nitty and gritty no-holds-barred unarmed combat.

I have a few questions as I approach potentially making a Frostrager.

1. Is the Frostrager's Unarmed Strike a natural attack? The class requires you have Improved Unarmed Strike, so I would assume no, right? It's just an augmentation to the unarmed strike attack option, which counts as a manufactured weapon.

2. If an unarmed strike isn't a manufactured weapon, is it a natural weapon? Can I benefit from taking TWF with the Frostrager for meaty punches? Or am I limited to taking Improved Natural Attack to make my miniscule amount of attacks meaty?

I would assume by their intent that it's meant to be manufactured so that you can make use of your full attack action with it. I just wanted some consensus on this matter.

Also, on a related but different note: How awesome are Frostragers?

[Greenish]

How awesome are Frostragers?7/10, +1 if used with Fist of the Forest.

[ArcturusV]

An unarmed strike would be a natural attack, as noted by descriptions of spells like Magic Fang and Magic Weapon. But also notice that on page 139 of the PHB it states: "Unarmed strikes count as light weapons (for purposes of two-weapon attack penalties and so on)."

So you could still two weapon fight with it even though it is a Natural Weapon. Monks are alone in having their Unarmed Strikes count as Manufactured weapons.

You could also try swinging it by your DM if you could use gauntlets with it, so you can have a manufactured weapon for the purposes of enchanting and such.

[Urpriest]

Frostrager adds damage to your unarmed attacks, but it doesn't change them beyond that. Thus, your unarmed strike is still a natural weapon, not a manufactured weapon. Just like other unarmed strikes (and unlike other natural weapons) you get to full attack with it using your full iteratives. You can TWF with it and another weapon. Whether you can TWF with only unarmed strikes depends on whether you can consider yourself to have more than one unarmed strike, which is a controversial topic, but regardless if you are able to use Dragon Magazine material there is an ACF for barbarians that lets them TWF with unarmed strikes.

[Darrin]

1. Is the Frostrager's Unarmed Strike a natural attack? The class requires you have Improved Unarmed Strike, so I would assume no, right? It's just an augmentation to the unarmed strike attack option, which counts as a manufactured weapon.


Yes, for most spells/effects/feats, unarmed strike is treated as a natural weapon (see the magic fang/magic weapon spell descriptions). For the purposes of calculating your attack bonus, number of iterative attacks, and Str bonus on damage, it's treated as a manufactured weapon.



2. If an unarmed strike isn't a manufactured weapon, is it a natural weapon? Can I benefit from taking TWF with the Frostrager for meaty punches? Or am I limited to taking Improved Natural Attack to make my miniscule amount of attacks meaty?


You can take Improved Natural Attack to improve your unarmed strike damage.

For the purposes of TWF, unarmed strikes are treated as manufactured weapons, and can be used as either your primary attack or as an offhand attack. There's some argument over whether you can use unarmed strikes as both your primary and offhand attack in the same attack routine, but I think the general consensus around here is "no", unarmed strike only counts as "one" weapon in TWF, you need a "second" weapon if you want to TWF with it. Some DMs may let you do this under the theory that you have multiple (or at least practically inexhaustable) striking surfaces.



Also, on a related but different note: How awesome are Frostragers?

Stay frosty.

[SilverLeaf167]

Well, the prestige class is definitely cool (heh heh) but probably not that much stronger than most other Barbarian builds, since as we all know, unarmed strikes are pretty much always weaker than charging power attacks.

[Gandariel]

Frost rager is cool and fun!

Get 2 levels of monk and at least 1 barbarian level for the ACFs.
the thing about TWF is controversial, ask your DM.
Also get fist of the forest, and (yet more controversial) 5 levels of bear warrior for oh-so-many attacks (three given by bear form, your iteratives, TWF, the one for wihrling frenzy, and Snap kick)

[KillianHawkeye]

How is Bear Warrior controvertial? :smallconfused:

[Randomguy]

How is Bear Warrior controvertial? :smallconfused:

I heard that some people find it unbearable.

[Chaosvii7]

The only forseeable problem with taking any ACFs is that certain Barbarian prestige classes that mesh well together with Frostrager require regular Rage, not Whirling Frenzy or Ferocity. I think.

...Am I wrong?