Blur vs. Inquisitors

[AlanBruce]

Greetings! A simple question: Would the Inquisitor class feature from Complete Divine, pierce illusions negate the 20% miss chance caused by Blur?

Thank you in advance.

[andromax]

The way Pierce Illusion (Su) works, is that it automatically lets you make a will save vs an Illusion spell that grants a will save when you interact with it (such as an illusionary wall..).

Take Silent Image (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/silentImage.htm) for example. Notice that "Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with)" is what you are looking for when using this class feature. You get to make an immediate Will save without interacting with it.

Spells that don't grant will saves don't pertain to Pierce Illusion, in the way the flavor text describes.

So.. No, you don't get to negate the miss chance of Blur. There are, however many other ways in which you could.

[AlanBruce]

Thank you very much! I'm guessing True Seeing would reveal Blur?

[TuggyNE]

Thank you very much! I'm guessing True Seeing would reveal Blur?

It would, yes. It would also negate displacement or (greater) mirror image.

[Mnemnosyne]

That's kind of what I thought too, but it was brought up to me in another thread that's not actually accurate. That is probably the intention of the ability, but the wording is not so restrictive. It specifically states "Whenever an Inquisitor sees an illusion or disguise spell of any sort, he immediately makes a Will save to see through it."

That means that any illusion spell is subject to that clause, if the inquisitor can see it. If it's not visible (invisibility, for example) it does nothing, but if the inquisitor can see it in any way, he gets a will save to see through it. The same also applies to any shapechanging spell that would disguise the user. Alter self, polymorph, shapechange, all provide the inquisitor with a will save to see through them, because they're all a disguise spell of some sort.

[Marnath]

The same also applies to any shapechanging spell that would disguise the user. Alter self, polymorph, shapechange, all provide the inquisitor with a will save to see through them, because they're all a disguise spell of some sort.

How do you figure that, those are all Transmutation spells.

[LanSlyde]

How do you figure that, those are all Transmutation spells.

Indeed, but they all are called out specifically as giving a +10 circumstance bonus to a disguise check. Hence, it's a disguise spell, seeing as how their is no [disguise] tag for spells. Also, seeing as how it specifically calls out illusion and disguise spells we have to include spells that allow you to disguise yourself as something (or someone) else as viable targets for Pierce Illusion.

[Mnemnosyne]

It says "Illusion or disguise spell". While the ability is named Pierce Illusion and theoretically should be restricted to illusions, the poor wording of that particular sentence makes it functional against any 'disguise spell.'

Actually...I suppose you could theoretically get around this by the caveat that 'disguise spell' is not a defined game term the way 'illusion spell' is, but it's still a little shaky. Spells that change your shape to disguise you and give explicit bonuses to disguise when used for that purpose definitely seem to fit the profile of 'disguise spell'.

[andromax]

That means that any illusion spell is subject to that clause, if the inquisitor can see it. If it's not visible (invisibility, for example) it does nothing, but if the inquisitor can see it in any way, he gets a will save to see through it.

That's totally true. The fact is, spells like Blur function without any mechanic as to whether they are able to be disbelieved or "seen through" by Pierce Illusion the way that Minor Image can. So yes, you can make a will save as per your class ability, and whether you pass or fail... there is no mechanical difference because there is no illusion to disbelieve. No where in the text does it say you can negate miss chances or anything other than disbelieve an illusion or disguise.

[Mnemnosyne]

Well, it says to 'see through it'. In the absence of a specific rules meaning for those words, I would say the plain text meaning must be applied. Blur literally blurs your location, and displacement makes you appear to be standing a couple feet off from your real location. Seeing through those illusions would allow the inquisitor to clearly see the actual location of their target.

Because of that wording, pierce illusion basically seems to function as 'true seeing lite' as long as the inquisitor makes their will save. The far more solidly defined term 'disbelieve' would have been a better choice for that ability.