[PF] Magus' Concentration Checks

[Zubrowka74]

I read somewhere that Combat Casting was pretty much useless for a Magus but I fail to see why. I mean, besides burning up a feat.

The Magus does have abilities that help in this department but they all come in play at mid-to-high levels. Sure, he can fire up a touch spell, move towards an enemy and deliver it through a (free) weapon attack. But to make a full "Spellstrike" attack he has to either take a big penalty while casting defensively or risk AoO from the other side.

So until he is high enough level, what is a Magus supposed to do without a bonus to his concentration checks ? Take one round to cast and move, another to spellstrike / full attack ? Or just stack the highest AC possible with light armor and hope he doesn't get hit while casting right in the opponent's face ? Because the concentration checks DC are pretty high and in PF it is not a skill, so you only get your level + int bonus. Defensive casting DC is 15 + (spell level x 2) which is hardly easy once you pass 1st lvl spells. Am I missing something obvious ?

[Xerxus]

Using spell combat, you full attack, 5ft step back and then cast. Or just use lunge.

[Zubrowka74]

Using spell combat, you full attack, 5ft step back and then cast. Or just use lunge.

But add in spellstrike and you still need a feat that's unavailable at low levels, and take an AC penalty.

[Xerxus]

But add in spellstrike and you still need a feat that's unavailable at low levels, and take an AC penalty.

You won't be able to spellstrike much at lower levels anyway. You might as well focus on color spray etc.

[Eldonauran]

Advice: Deliver your touch spells with a whip. :smallamused:

[Saph]

You're not missing anything: Combat Casting is very useful for a Magus at lower levels. The reason most people don't recommend it is that it's not a feat you want once you're level 20 – but if you're never going to get to level 20 anyway, it's a decent choice.

[AttilaTheGeek]

You're not missing anything: Combat Casting is very useful for a Magus at lower levels. The reason most people don't recommend it is that it's not a feat you want once you're level 20 – but if you're never going to get to level 20 anyway, it's a decent choice.

Not just a decent choice- a fantastic choice. Without a reach weapon or Lunge, Combat Casting is a fine way to make your spells go through. There's nothing like needing to get that last-minute spell off to save the day and then having it fizzle.

[StreamOfTheSky]

No, Combat Casting is a subpar choice, at any level.

One important thing to point out is that in PF, unlike 3.5, you can actually:

1. Cast melee touch spell
2. Move up to a foe
3. Deliver melee touch spell w/o provoking (other than possibly from step 2)

According to the devs.


That alone limits Combat Casting's usefulness. Even worse, there is a trait (the thing most PCs get 2 of for free; or otherwise can spend a feat to get two of them) that gives a +2 bonus on concentration checks. Not just casting defensively like wimpy combat casting. On *all* concentration checks.

I would take the trait with any Magus, and generally not take the feat. And yeah, Lunge is a level 9 solution, not a level 20 solution.

[Saph]

You won't always begin your turns away from an enemy. In fact, for most battles, you usually won't begin your turn away from an enemy, at least not from round 2 onwards.

I played a Magus all the way from level 1 up to level 5 in a campaign. Defensive casting checks came up VERY often. Until your concentration modifier is +16 or more, anything that boosts it is very welcome.

[StreamOfTheSky]

If you start w/ an 18 in int (play an elf or tiefling or even human, easy) and have the trait, at level 1 your concentration check is +7 against a top DC of 17, a 55% success rate. At level 2, if you just want to use Arcane Mark to Zorro your way to extra attacks, you have a +8 vs. DC 15.

By level 6, you should have a +2 int item, you now have a +13 vs. a DC of 19 for 2nd level spells (and slightly worse odds of +14 vs. DC 21 for 3rd level spells next level), which is pretty good odds.

By level 9 you have Lunge and no longer care, but even if you did, you have CL 9, +7 int (+2 from levels, +2 from item), and +2 trait for a +18 vs. DC 21 for 3rd level spells and is nearly automatic. As you go higher in levels, it soon becomes completely automatic.

And nothing is forcing you to use your highest level spells when threatened. Using lower level spells in those situations makes it even easier.

So no, I cannot recommend Combat Casting.

[navar100]

No, Combat Casting is a subpar choice, at any level.

One important thing to point out is that in PF, unlike 3.5, you can actually:

1. Cast melee touch spell
2. Move up to a foe
3. Deliver melee touch spell w/o provoking (other than possibly from step 2)

According to the devs.


That alone limits Combat Casting's usefulness. Even worse, there is a trait (the thing most PCs get 2 of for free; or otherwise can spend a feat to get two of them) that gives a +2 bonus on concentration checks. Not just casting defensively like wimpy combat casting. On *all* concentration checks.

I would take the trait with any Magus, and generally not take the feat. And yeah, Lunge is a level 9 solution, not a level 20 solution.

You can do that in 3E as well.

It's also not always an option. Combat Casting is useful for when you aren't moving for some reason, which does happen. A feat does not need to be used every round all the time every time for it to be a good feat to have.

It's also nice to have the trait and Combat Casting for +6 to your defensive casting roll. Goes a long way to get that spell off when you really need it and you don't have to take a 5 ft step or otherwise move if you don't want to.

[Eldonauran]

You won't always begin your turns away from an enemy. In fact, for most battles, you usually won't begin your turn away from an enemy, at least not from round 2 onwards.

I played a Magus all the way from level 1 up to level 5 in a campaign. Defensive casting checks came up VERY often. Until your concentration modifier is +16 or more, anything that boosts it is very welcome.

I can second this. This is the reason that I moved to using whips to deliver spells. 1). Touch attack, 2) the whip doesn't have to deal damage to deliver the spell and 3) as a reach weapon, stepping back is always an option. Invest in a spiked gauntlet, please.


If you start w/ an 18 in int (play an elf or tiefling or even human, easy) and have the trait, at level 1 your concentration check is +7 against a top DC of 17, a 55% success rate. At level 2, if you just want to use Arcane Mark to Zorro your way to extra attacks, you have a +8 vs. DC 15.

What magus starts with more than 16 INT? Even with the racial bonus? I know it's the difference between another +1, but a Magus is MAD and should put those points else where.

[Saph]

If you start w/ an 18 in int (play an elf or tiefling or even human, easy) and have the trait, at level 1 your concentration check is +7 against a top DC of 17, a 55% success rate. At level 2, if you just want to use Arcane Mark to Zorro your way to extra attacks, you have a +8 vs. DC 15.

There's no reason to put an 18 into Int as a Magus, and again, you're assuming that the game will REACH level 9. If you're playing at levels 1-6, Combat Casting is very very useful.

[Zubrowka74]

The thing being that since in PF it's not a skill anymore, there's less ways to crank this up. No skill ranks, no skill focus feat. I guess it's ok to give the caster classes a kick in the nards once in a while. I mean, considering they've upped the hit-dice to 1d6...