Good Skills to have?

[Gwazi Magnum]

Currently I am making a character capable of gaining 14 SP per level (So basically 14 maximized skills).

This is done with a rogue who from a house rule agreement with the DM gives 10+Int Mod per level, (gives up trapfinding and trap sense). Intelligence 16 for +3 SP (attributes were rolled, I got pretty high), and +1 SP per level from being a human.

I'm curious though about what skills I should be investing in as a character. My goal with my skills is to never be caught useless. He is always able to do something to stay capable and/or involved in what is going on.

Note: I also with the Martial Rogue variant where I get fighter bonus feats rather than sneak attacks so my Rogue is more competent in a straight up fight/can fend for himself and not only be useful from the shadows.

Also if it helps my current ability score array (at level 8, it's where we start the campaign) is:

STR 10 DEX 18 CON 12 INT 16 WIS 16 CHA 16

Level 1 DEX was 17 and Wis or Cha at 15, level 4 and 8 boost raised them to 18 and 16.

Last note: Our DM said he working on an investigative style sort of RP.

Now, these the skills I currently have planned and my reasoning behind it currently.

1. Diplomacy - I want to be able to talk out of situations and get NPCs to help us. Pretty simply I'm a big fan of talking people to our side.

2. Bluff - Meant to complement Diplomacy for the odd time when I need to make up something.

3. Sense Motive - Keep myself aware of when someone is being dishonest with me, so I'm less likely to be stabbed in the back and/or more likely to pursue something for further information.

4. Gather Info - I want to be able to gain information from towns rather easily so we can follow more leads, get more treasure, not be so lost etc.

5/6. Listen/Spot - To be more aware of my surroundings and not miss out on some vital information or a vital event going on.

7. Search - So when I'm purposely looking for something/someone I can find it more easily.

8/9. Hide/Move Silently - So I can remain hidden. I think this can be useful for when I need to spy on someone or sneak in somewhere.

10. Survival - For tracking, I'm picking up the track feat too so if I need to follow someone and find them we'll easily be able to.

11. Open Lock - So I can open containers and get into locations that otherwise we would be locked out of.

12. Knowledge (Arcana) - So I can indentify anything magical going on and any notable magical monsters we may fight.

13. Disable Device - Incase traps are an issue, even with me no longer having trapsense/trap finding. Also incase we need to destroy some sort of device/contraption.

14. Decipher Script - So I can read/understand scriptures, ancient words etc when in a tomb, looking at a scroll etc.

[ArcturusV]

Swim. Always swim. If you don't take it, it WILL bite you in the ass. Least in my experience. It's always worth burning a skill point per level to avoid rerolling a character based on a botched swim check or two.

[TaiLiu]

Tumble is very nice for avoiding AoO.

Use Magic Device allows you to attempt to use wands and scrolls, among other things. I would rank this the most important skill; it gives you much needed versatility.

[Gavinfoxx]

Read these...

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8711233

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2720.0

[mawexzon]

Autohypnosis can be pretty good

Iajutsu Focus

[Gwazi Magnum]

Is swim really that useful?
I'm just curious as to why it would be that useful, I've only ever had to use it once in a campaign where we've reached lv.14.

Thanks for the links also guys.

But a note I forgot to mention, being a human I chose the feat 'able learner' so ALL skills are class skills for my rogue.

[Karnith]

Is swim really that useful?
I'm just curious as to why it would be that useful, I've only ever had to use it once in a campaign where we've reached lv.14.
Swim is not very useful, and I can't think of a situation where it would be appropriate to max out ranks in it. The ability to swim is generally obsoleted by any number of spells (fly, dimension door, etc.), and unless you happen to be playing in a nautical campaign (of if you have a particularly sadistic DM), there are very few situations in which you would actually need to use it. I for one can't recall the last time that my players actually needed to swim and couldn't just find some other way around.

Since you're starting at level 8, and your DM wants to play an investigation-based, roleplay-heavy game, I wouldn't bother with it.

[Story]

Even in a nautical campaign, it's completely obsoleted by the 3rd level spell Heart of Water. Of course, as a nonspellcaster, it will be expensive to keep it up all the time, but you still have far better uses for your skillpoints.

Hopefully the swim recommendation was a joke.

[Gavinfoxx]

Yea, Alter Self into something with a Swim speed, or get Heart of Water, or similar... I never put ranks into Swim... maybe a rank for a Factotum to use class features on it? Iunno...


Also, rules as written? Only Able Learner with a Factotum or Savant gets you all skills as class skills...

but the Factotum handbook should help you in what skills are useful in general!

There's also THIS handbook if you want to change your class:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234327


Also what alternate class are you taking for trapfinding?

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871954/Lists_of_Stuff&post_num=3#338421590

There are LOTS of ways to get it back!

[ArcturusV]

Because a swim skill is like a Fort Save. Generally if you don't make a Fort Save, you're in "Make a new character" territory. Swim is the skill equivalent. You might not have to roll it... but the moment you DO need to roll it, if you fail it's "make a new character".

There are spells that negate the need for swimming. Waterbreathing is the classical example. I don't necessarily recognize any other ones mentioned. But DMs get... really sadistic when water is involved. Even if you go "Pssh, I have overland flight, the hell do I need swimming for?" You know what will happen, almost without fail (Least in my experience)? You'll be flying over a lake, ocean, river, whatever... some acquatic monster the DM wanted to use will be there, and they will shoot you out of the sky and drag you into the water. The one I usually see is some Kraken style monster going and Tentacle Grappling you into the depths. And once that happens the DMs get REALLY sadistic. "Oh, you're trying to cast heart of water now? Well as you try to use the Verbal Components seawater rushes in and you sputter out salt water and give me a Concentration check at -40." Always something like that. DMs, even NICE ones turn into rabid wombats of Player Killing if water gets involved and you DON'T have swimming.

[Gavinfoxx]

DMs, even NICE ones turn into rabid wombats of Player Killing if water gets involved and you DON'T have swimming.

No... your DMs act like that. I usually do it like, "I have heart of water already up. If I have to swim, I alter self into a Sea Elf or River Spirit Folk or Merfolk or something, and Take 10. Yes, even when it is storming."

[Karnith]

Because a swim skill is like a Fort Save. Generally if you don't make a Fort Save, you're in "Make a new character" territory. Swim is the skill equivalent. You might not have to roll it... but the moment you DO need to roll it, if you fail it's "make a new character".

There are spells that negate the need for swimming. Waterbreathing is the classical example. I don't necessarily recognize any other ones mentioned. But DMs get... really sadistic when water is involved. Even if you go "Pssh, I have overland flight, the hell do I need swimming for?" You know what will happen, almost without fail (Least in my experience)? You'll be flying over a lake, ocean, river, whatever... some acquatic monster the DM wanted to use will be there, and they will shoot you out of the sky and drag you into the water. The one I usually see is some Kraken style monster going and Tentacle Grappling you into the depths. And once that happens the DMs get REALLY sadistic. "Oh, you're trying to cast heart of water now? Well as you try to use the Verbal Components seawater rushes in and you sputter out salt water and give me a Concentration check at -40." Always something like that. DMs, even NICE ones turn into rabid wombats of Player Killing if water gets involved and you DON'T have swimming.
You certainly sound like you're invoking my sadistic DMs clause (though perhaps I should shift to to a more generic "bad DM" clause), because I have never met a DM who has suddenly lost his senses and killed a party member just to force a certain encounter.

I will say it again. Unless you are in a nautical campaign, where the chance of being thrown overboard or something is very real, or unless you have a bad DM, you don't need ranks in Swim. You will probably die if you need to make a Swim check and can't meet the DC, but unlike with a Fortitude save the number of situations in which you would need to make a Swim check and in which nothing else will do is vanishingly small. For any normal use of the skill (such as, say, crossing a body of water) spells are a better answer than wasting skill points.

[Story]

Also, rules as written? Only Able Learner with a Factotum or Savant gets you all skills as class skills...


Exemplar gets all skills as class skills too, but that's a Prc with high prereqs.


Anyway, there's nothing that can protect you from sadistic DMs.