Long time reader, first time poster

[ImaWallaby]

Thanks in advance to anyone who donates their time to help, it's appreciated. Been playing D&D for a while, but need some advice for an evil cleric build. I've only played cleric a couple of times and neither was evil. Game will go from 6th to 20th and be set in Dark Sun. The plot is that myself and the other PC's will have been teleported there for some unknown reason from our home planes and must seek a way back while simultaneously avoiding the minions of the sorceror kings, with an eventual confrontation with the Dragon himself. For fluff reasons I'll be playing a Drow(I know I'm losing CL's, but DM is allowing LA buyoff), and must worship Lolth. There will be four other PC's; a pixie scout, a mushroom man druid, a human 2-HF fighter or barbarian type, and an undetermined arcane caster. I'm not looking for super optimization but definitely need to keep up with the party since everyone playing is a 10+ year veteran of 3.5/AD&D. DM doesn't allow anything too cheesy, and banned things include Dragon Magazine, BoED, and most anything else you can think of that is overpowered(he's very up-to-date on errata and broken buils). If there's anything else that would help you help me then just shout it out and I'll be glad to answer. Again, thanks for your help. :smallsmile:

[Urpriest]

I had the impression that outside gods didn't have access to Dark Sun. Are you sure you'll be able to get spells from Lolth?

[ImaWallaby]

Yes. I had the same question for the DM, and was told by him that the PC's being in Dark Sun is a plot by one or more deities that have taken an interest in that world for one reason or another.

[avr]

Find out whether Divine Metamagic (DMM) is banned, & if not whether using nightsticks for extra turning attempts to fuel DMM is banned.

Actually, get a list of what is banned. Different people have totally different ideas of what is overpowered.

[Deaxsa]

Find out whether Divine Metamagic (DMM) is banned, & if not whether using nightsticks for extra turning attempts to fuel DMM is banned.

Actually, get a list of what is banned. Different people have totally different ideas of what is overpowered.

right, but any DM with a brain can realize when something is very powerful relative to the rest of the group, and will probably nerf/remove/something it so that people are not being overshadowed, or the game is not being broken. DMM+nightsticks? Even if the DM does not think that it's cheese now, he will later (unless, of course, that is what is keeping this character viable..)

[ImaWallaby]

Neither DMM or nightsticks are banned, provided I don't cheese it up *TOO* bad. I'd actually prefer to avoid it if possible since I just want to be able to keep up with the other PC's but not overshadow them too much. I'm looking for a build that is more self-sufficient without having to reply on items too heavily.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Starting off 6th level as a Drow is a bit harsh, even with LA buyoff permitted. I'd use the savage progression drow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) to gradually gain and buy off the level adjustment, since you can wait between each level of drow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a). Go Drow 1/ Cleric 3, buy off that one LA for 3,000 xp, put your next level in Drow so you'll be Drow 1 (bought off)/ Cleric 3/ Drow 1, and after three more class levels (ECL 7) you'll be able to buy that one off for 6,000 xp.

Take the feat Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) at 3rd level (just prior to buying off the first level of Drow) for the 10% xp bonus, plus other benefits and you an upgrade it yourself. Make it your house insignia ring, and always wear a glove or gauntlet over it so it cannot be targeted by attacks or slight of handed. An item familiar is an intelligent item and treated as a construct, and constructs cannot be disabled or destroyed by dispelling or disjoining and continue to function in antimagic and dead magic areas. Be sure to invest every skill point you get from 4th level and up into that for the greatest return. It can start as a basic Ring of Protection +1 for which you'd subtract the full price from your WBL. You can upgrade it to another type of ring with a +1 Deflection bonus to AC added per MIC p234, so for example if you wanted to make it a Ring of Invisibility you'd pay 10,000 gp and 800 xp, and it would be a Ring of Invisibility with a +1 Deflection bonus added worth a total of 22,000 gp. As an intelligent item your item familiar gets actions just like a creature does, and it can activate its own abilities so as a Ring of Invisibility it could turn you invisible at the end of each of your turns.

I'd actually take the above LA buyoff trick one step further. Start with the Lolth-Touched template (MM4) before your first class level, buy off its +1 LA at Cleric 3, then gain Drow 1, after three more class levels buy it off at ECL 7, gain Drow 2, then after another three class levels but that off at ECL 10.

Take two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) if possible. There are quite a few fun ones (http://alt.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258440#30) from various issues of Dragon magazine, but if you can't pick from those just take Murky-Eyed and Vulnerable. Get Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, and DMM: Persist at 1st level, Item Familiar at 3rd, and I'd probably take Extra Turning at 6th and Craft Rod at 9th to be able to make your own Night Sticks. Start with a Reliquary Holy Symbol from MIC and possibly one or more Night Sticks, but at this level they're probably not even necessary yet. I'd get a standard Strand of Prayer Beads that's had the Bead of Smiting removed, since it only costs 9,000 gp per post-errata DMG pricing. Use the Bead of Karma before casting your buffs to get an extra +1 and four hours out of Magic Vestment, or eight hours extended. Get a Lesser Rod of Extend as well for casting that on your armor and shield. You can DMM: Persist and Lesser Rod of Extend two more spells and cast each every other day, I'd go with Divine Favor and Nightshield (SC) as each will be at +3 with the Bead of Karma.

Wear the best armor that permits your full Dex bonus, I'd make it Masterwork with a Restful Crystal (MIC) so you don't have to take it off to rest. Get a masterwork heavy shield and a masterwork one handed weapon, and don't forget about the drow weapon proficiencies. Get some Sundark Goggles (RotD p123, 10 gp) to help avoid the Drow light sensitivity drawback, plus you'll look cool. Looking at ECL 6 WBL, you're going to be considerably short for all those items. Maybe see about getting the Mercantile Background regional feat (PGtF) for a 25% discount on each of those (assuming they were purchased/obtained far enough apart), otherwise add class/alignment/race-specific restrictions to those items for a discounted cost per DMG p282.

[georgie_leech]

Do DM's still allow those "restrictions" on items when you're the only one going to use them anyway?

[Muktidata]

1) Be a Half-Drow for 0LA. If you want to, pick up Lolth-Touched in your character background to boost your stats and have it bought off before the game starts. As you guessed, losing caster levels is an awful thing to do.

2) DMM: Extend is a good middle-ground. Many hour/level buffs become nearly 24 hours. Superior Resistance, Magic Vestment, Magic Tattoo (48 hours), Undetectable Alignment (48 hours), etc

3) Focus on utility casting and buffing your party, not yourself. From what you shared of your party, they don't need more stupid fighters or a skill monkey. Stuff like Legion's Conviction, Dispel Magic, Break Enchantment, Freedom of Movement, etc is what you'll want to prepare.

4) Visit the "3.5 Cleric Handbook" by AfterCrescent.

[ImaWallaby]

Thanks for all the feedback so far, it is appreciated. The DM won't allow multiple nightsticks to stack, so that is off the table, as is Item Familiars. They really aren't the direction I was going anyway. I'm definitely going to focus mostly on buffing the party, since it well give them incentive not to leave me for dead in the desert. I am still looking for an idea as far as offense though, since I will need it eventually. I'm thinking more along the lines of eventually using the Planar Ally spells and divination spells to take enemies out of the fight before it even begins. I guess my next question is, can anyone tellme if I should focus more on the rebuke/command aspect, and just make lots of squishy minions? Secondly, feat suggestions? Daylight Adaptation is a must since the setting is Dark Sun, and DMM is an obvious choice. Any others?

[ImaWallaby]

Also, is cloistered cleric a good idea? And what about domain suggestions? I think Trickery is already a choice, but what about the other?

[Getsugaru]

Cloistered Cleric is great, as it gets you the Knowledge domain for free as a third domain, and also gives you Lore, which is quite literally Bardic Knowledge under another name (so you might be able to convince your DM to let you substitute it with Bardic Knack from PHB2).

Also, what type of offense do you want to play? Do you want to charge in at your foes with a big stick (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=or9rui2nf81t46eddh7gu81je2&topic=7200.0)? strike from atop a mighty steed or similar (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7414)? Etc, etc, etc? :smallconfused:

[ImaWallaby]

I suppose I'd want to go with minions (undead, demons, etc). Any good feats/spells I should look up? Or should I be taking the character in another direction?

[Alienist]

For a Darksun setting like this, I find Ur Priest to be thematically delicious.

The DM will probably have a knee jerk reaction against them.

What makes Ur Priest bad is early access to 9th level spells, and the jiggery pokery that normally accompanies trying to get into the class in the first place (it has some tricky requirements)

Fort +3
Will +3
Knowledge Arcana 5
Knowledge the Planes 5
Bluff 6
Knowledge Religion 8
Spellcraft 8
Iron Will
Spell Focus

If you can pull off entry at level 7 without making it look too horrible (e.g. a whole lot of one level dips, followed by theurging out of the class almost straight away) then with your LA everyone else is level 9.

That means you get ninth level spells at level 17, just like normal clerics. For all other spells, you were one level behind.


If your DM can trust you to not enter it early, and not go for the uber-cheese with the urging, then Ur Priest is balanced and Uber-cool.

If you enter at 7, and buy off one LA, then you're getting eights the same time as everyone else, and are disadvantaged on the earlier ones. With two levels of buy back you're bnehind all the way up to sevenths, and get ninths at the same time that everyone else gets eights.

If that's a problem, it can be easily fixed by inserting a couple of levels of whatever the heck it is that you were going to take after you got done with Ur Priest. Hierophant is a good choice. And you can't enter until you get seventh level divine spells anyway. What makes it a safe choice is:
(a) nobody ever takes it because it doesn't advance spell progression
and
(b) it doesn't advance spell progression

Four levels of Hierophant will round you out nicely.

[Gullintanni]

I suppose I'd want to go with minions (undead, demons, etc). Any good feats/spells I should look up? Or should I be taking the character in another direction?

If you're looking to play an evil Cleric and Cloistered Cleric is your thing, consider trading the Knowledge domain you pick up to grab the Divine Magician ACF. This allows you to create your own domain using Abjuration, Divination and Necromancy spells picked from the Sorc/Wiz spell list.

Look at spells like Enervation (combine with Divine Metamagic and Split Ray for some serious debuffing on the cheap), Ray of Exhaustion, Command Undead and Awaken Undead.

Also, do not neglect Rebuking as a source for Necromancy. With a few items (Lyre of the Restful Soul, Phylactery of Undead Turning and a few others in Libris Mortis) you can be commanding undead well beyond your typical capabilities.

Use your undead minions as flanking buddies, while debuffing the opposition. This will give you the ability to dictate the pace and intensity of combat without depriving your allies of the glory of the kill.

For buffing the party, grab Extend Spell (Divine Metamagic at your option) and throw out your favorite buffs. Some good options include Prayer, Greater Magic Weapon and Recitation.