[PF] In a squad of Dwarves, need build suggestions

[Vastly]

So, awhile back I asked for some assistance with building a dwarven barbarian named Hamvick for a Pathfinder campaign. He has been a resounding success, so much so that the group I'm playing with wants to create a PFS group of dwarven brothers based off of Hamvick. Since I'm the one playing him, I decided this incarnation of would not be another barbarian. One individual is mirroring the barbarian build I used to some extent, the other is undecided as to which class he'll be, but will likely be a martial class. As a general theme, we're all melee and using hammer type weapons.

So I'm pretty much going to be the healer, or to put it better, the heal capable melee of this trifecta. Problem is, I'm not sure exactly how to build it, as most of the better healing/melee combatant options seem to lean on CHA.

The question is, what are my build options to be an effective melee and still able to heal effectively? I'm having a hard enough time figuring out class combinations let alone how to build them effectively.

Class combos I've pondered:

Stonelord/Oracle of Life (lower CHA oradin)
Hospitaler/Oracle of Life (higher CHA oradin)
Druid (no idea how to build this)
Cleric (probably with Travel domain so I can keep up with the barbarians)
Dip Fighter?


I've looked over various guides and done some research of my own, but I have no experience with these classes in PF and wanted some input. Any input is appreciated, thanks! :smallsmile:

[Psyren]

Just so you know, Oradin is more for folks that want to heal in combat without it becoming a full-time job. Most groups - particularly high-Con martial types like the group you suggest - won't need a build like that; simple out of combat healing with a wand of Cure Light Wounds will suffice.

With that said, you could go either way on this. I'd be a Druid for the increased melee capability and battlefield control spells, but Cleric can work just as well. Dwarf stats are well suited to either one.

Treatmonk's Guides (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab) include some nice writeups on the Druid.

[grarrrg]

With that said, you could go either way on this. I'd be a Druid for the increased melee capability and battlefield control spells, but Cleric can work just as well. Dwarf stats are well suited to either one.

I'd go Cleric over Druid.
This may be more personal preference than anything, but you do have the ability to Spontaneously convert any spell into a Cure spell, whereas a Druid would have to memorize or carry Scrolls/Wands.
And a Druid has to choose a Domain OR an Animal Companion. A Cleric can choose the Animal Domain to get a Companion, AND take another Domain on top.
You also get Positive Energy Channeling for extra out of combat healing.

[Psyren]

Well, the animal domain companion is reduced in power (like that of a ranger) so that's one thing to keep in mind. In addition, melee clerics are not as strong in PF as they were in 3.5. (Medium armor, Divine Power nerf, no Persistent Spell or DMM etc.) Having said all that, cleric tends to fit Dwarven sensibilities more readily than druid I would say, so that's one thing to consider.

[Edenbeast]

Or go cleric with the crusader archetype. Pick up the travel domain like you say. It's more martial, and you get bonus feats. Your spellcasting is somewhat diminished, but you still get the spontaneous conversion to cure spells.

[avr]

In PF, another melee-capable healer is an alchemist. If you don't want poison or bombs there are archetypes which trade these away (Vivisectionist loses the bombs in exchange for sneak attack, Grenadier loses poison for a martial weapon prof & some odd abilities, Ragechemist loses the poison for, well, rage, several others downgrade the bombs). Alchemists use Int not Cha.

[8wGremlin]

Nevermind, your playing PF, sorry




Odd Ball Left Field Idea, play this character:

Gold Dwarf Healer, yes a T5 healer.. have a read



This was a build I had converted over from a played character in another thread, it showed that Healers could be made to be effective Tier 5 characters, pulling them up, to a higher tier.

It adds spells to the healers list in a number of ways, SPC has suggestions, as well as BoED. I also added in Gold Dwarf Dweomercrafter, as I've wanted to do that for a while...

anyhow I give you

Dorydd and Company

Dorydd

Trans "Red Queen", NG Gold Dwarf, Female

Dorydd is a worshipper of Galaeros, the wood god, but an unusual one as she is a dwarf

Dorydd is a healer, she is a very charismatic individual, and as such has a number of followers.

Gold Dwarf: +2 Con -2 Dex, medium, 20 ft., fighter, humanoid (dwarf), dungeon master's guide pg.171

Stats: STR: 8 DEX: 10 CON: 14 INT: 10 WIS: 18 CHA: 14

@4th +1 Wis


Healer 1 - Craft 2 Ranks, Diplomacy 4 ranks, Knowledge(Nature) 2 ranks, Knowledge(Planes) 2 ranks Perform 2 ranks =16pts
Healer 2 - Craft 3 Ranks, Diplomacy 5 ranks, Knowledge(Nature) 2 ranks, Knowledge(Planes) 2 ranks Perform 2.5 ranks = 3
Healer 3 - Craft 3 Ranks, Diplomacy 6 ranks, Knowledge(Nature) 2 ranks, Knowledge(Planes) 2 ranks Perform 3 ranks = 2
Healer 4 - Craft 3 Ranks, Diplomacy 7 ranks, Knowledge(Nature) 2 ranks, Knowledge(Planes) 2 ranks Perform 3 ranks = 1
Healer 4 - Craft 3 Ranks, Diplomacy 8 ranks, Knowledge(Nature) 2 ranks, Knowledge(Planes) 2 ranks Perform 3 ranks = 1
Mystic Wanderer 1




feats

Circle Magic @1st
Gold Dwarf Dweomersmith @3rd
Leadership @6th


Glory of the Divine(Su): The mystic wanderer who wears no armour gains a sacred(or profane if her deity is evil) bonus to AC equal to her charisma bonus.

Bonus Domain: If you are a cleric, you gain the Charm Domain as a third domain. If you already have the Charm domain, you can instead choose any other domain granted by your deity as your third domain. If you have no cleric levels,you can add the Charm Domain Spells to your class spell list,but you do not gain its domain ability or any extra spell slots for domain spells.


Spells

0 level:

create water, cure minor wounds, dawn, deathwatch, detect magic, detect poison, foraging charm, light, mending, purify food and drink, read magic, resistance, virtue.

1st level:

bless water, conviction, cure light wounds, delay disease, endure elements, faith healing, foundation of stone, goodberry, healthful rest, invest light protection, lesser vigor, protection from evil, remove fear, remove paralysis, resurgence, sanctuary, shield of faith, spell flower, speak with animals, touch of jorasco. bless weapon, magic stone, magic weapon, shillelagh,Charm Person,

2nd level:

benediction, body ward, calm emotions, close wounds, consecrate, cure moderate wounds, divine insight, divine protection, delay poison, ease pain, estanna's stew, false life, gentle repose, ghost touch armor, healing lorecall, protection from negative energy, protection from positive energy, remove addiction, remove nausea, remove blindness/deafness, remove disease, resist energy, shared healing, shield other, soul ward, stabilize, summon elysian thrush, lesser restoration. flame blade, Melf's acid arrow, spiritual weapon, Calm Emotions

3rd level:

antidragon aura, attune form, channelled divine shield, create food and water, crown of protection, cure serious wounds, energy aegis, heart's ease, invest moderate protection, magic circle against evil, magic vestment, mass conviction, mass lesser vigor, mass resist energy, neutralize poison, protection from energy, refreshment, remove curse, remove fatigue, restoration, safety, shield of warding, status, tiny hut, vigor. flame arrow, keen edge, Suggestion

4th level:

astral hospice, channelled divine health, convert wand, cure critical wounds, death ward, delay death, freedom of movement, greater resistance, healing spirit, mass cure light wounds, mass shield of faith, panacea, planar tolerance, positive energy aura, revenance, secure shelter, seed of life, sheltered vitality, stoneskin, sustain. greater magic weapon, holy sword, Good Hope

5th level:

atonement, aura of evasion, break enchantment, contingent energy resistance, dance of the unicorn, darts of life, greater status, greater vigor, healing circle, indomitability, invest heavy protection, life's grace, mass cure moderate wounds, mass sanctuary, raise dead, renewed vigor, revivify, stalwart pact, stone to flesh, true seeing, warding gems, Charm Monster

6th level:

energy immunity, greater restoration, heal, heroes' feast, mass cure serious wounds, regenerate, revive outsider, secure corpse, superior resistance, vigorous circle. blade barrier, spellstaff, Geas/Quest

7th level:

energetic healing, fortunate fate, mage's magnificent mansion, mass cure critical wounds, mass restoration, rejuvenating light, renewal pact, repulsion, resurrection, changestaff, Mordenkainen's sword, Insanity

8th level:

discern location, holy aura, mass heal, death pact, mass death ward, protection from spells, Demand

9th level:

gate, foresight, pavilion of grandeur, prismatic sphere, true resurrection, sublime revelry, undeath's eternal foe, Dominate Monster


Equipment

WBL: 13,000gp

Custom Item: Vestment version of a 'Domain Idol' of Galaeros (Faith of Eberron) (plant domain),



usable by Healers only ( -30% reduction in cost) = 7000gp

slot less to body slot.. 1/2 cost - Vestment (body) = 3500gp

taking this slot as is most in keeping to effect




Leadership

Leadership = cha (2) + stronghold (2) + fair & generous (1) + Special power(1) + level (6) = 12

Which gives me:

1 x 4th level cohort "Sir Cadus" is a 4th level Dwarven Knight

8 x 1st level Gold Dwarf Healers of Galearos, and all have the circle feat,



Gold Dwarf Dweomersmiths

You gain +1 caster level when casting a spell that creates a weapon or enhances an existing one. An 11th-level caster with this feat, for example, grants a weapon a +4 enhancement bonus when she casts greater magic weapon, not just a +3 enhancement bonus. This bonus caster level allows you to exceed the normal maximum effect allowed by a spell.

The tradition of gold dwarf dweomersmiths includes the following spells at each level:

1st--bless weapon, magic stone, magic weapon, shillelagh;

2nd--flame blade, Melf's acid arrow, spiritual weapon;

3rd--flame arrow, keen edge;

4th--greater magic weapon, holy sword;

6th--blade barrier, spellstaff;

7th-- changestaff, Mordenkainen's sword.



Other spells gain this benefit if they target a weapon. Additionally, any magic weapons you fashion cost 5% less in gold pieces to make. The experience point cost is unaffected

Build Concepts

Every day we performance circle, this gives me 8 spell levels, which she heighten one spell to 9th level! The rest she use to raise my caster level by 2
Every evening up leading up to the battle she spontaneously convert the heightened spell in to the 9th level Plant Domain Shambler This summons 1d4+2 shambling mounds, and if set to guard the city against attackers, they will guard for 7 months! This averages out to 4 Shambling mounds a night (4.5 x 7 = 31 Shambling Mounds), whilst in guard mode, they can only roam with in 100+ 10'/cl range (so 260 ft) from each specific guard point. The last 3 days I have them guarding me, and can roam freely, but it only lasts for 7 days

My cohort and followers will use any and all means to create defences,
They will create their own circles (if they have spells left to use)

It's a healer with Gold Dwarf Dweomercrafter Which at 1st level, gets you a +2 shillelagh.

I'm using circle magic, because I worship Galaeros, and he has the plant domain, with my domain idol you can sack spells and get the domain spells instead

But you could worship something else and drop circle magic, and move Gold Dwarf Dweomercrafter down to 1st level.

[Ravens_cry]

You might want to check out the Empyreal blood line (www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo---sorcerer-archetypes/wildblooded/empyreal) if you want the group to pack some arcane power.

[Baroncognito]

In PF, another melee-capable healer is an alchemist. If you don't want poison or bombs there are archetypes which trade these away (Vivisectionist loses the bombs in exchange for sneak attack, Grenadier loses poison for a martial weapon prof & some odd abilities, Ragechemist loses the poison for, well, rage, several others downgrade the bombs). Alchemists use Int not Cha.

You could be a brewer. Just strap a huge keg to your back and be on your way.

[Vastly]

Thank you all for the great ideas, it's very appreciated!

Ultimately what I've decided to do is a Barbarian 1/Cleric X build.
Going Armored Hulk archetype for heavy armor prof + martial weapons and rage. Then Cleric I'm going Separatist of Cayden Cailean, taking the Travel and Luck domains. While Desna is the better choice mechanically, Cayden is the better one Fluff and RP wise for a band of rowdy, drunken dwarven mercenaries. I'm going to run around with a Long Hammer beating the snot out of things! Still contemplating if I should take a 2nd lvl of Barbarian for the rage power, but I think progressing spell casting is probably more important.


You could be a brewer. Just strap a huge keg to your back and be on your way.

This, is a fantastic idea, I'll have to run it by the 3rd group member as he is still undecided.

Edit: Is it just me or is the Ragechemist unnecessarily harsh with it's penalty? Having to take will saves every time you take damage or eventually become comatose for an hour? Ouch.


You might want to check out the Empyreal blood line if you want the group to pack some arcane power.

Actually this is what the 3rd member is currently considering. More specifically, he's looking at doing a Crossblooded Sorcerer, with Empyreal and Draconic, a lvl or two of Barbarian, and eventually taking Dragon Disciple. It's a very odd build, and he's not sure if he can make it work.

[Edenbeast]

Edit: Is it just me or is the Ragechemist unnecessarily harsh with it's penalty? Having to take will saves every time you take damage or eventually become comatose for an hour? Ouch.

I think it's very funny, but have my doubts with the viability. If you want to play tank, then I wouldn't go with this build. Hit and run may work, a little. The best reason I think of is if you take the drunken brute barbarian archetype, and then the first two levels of ragechemist. The effects of barbarian rage and rage mutagen stack. So come a tough fight, you rage, smack down a few guys, then come the boss, you think you need a little extra and drink your mutagen, smack down the boss. Fluffwise the two archetypes go well together, and the drunken brute lets you drink brews and potions while raging for a move action without provoking AoO's. I can easily see a dwarven brewer with a beer keg tied on his back.

[Vastly]

I think it's very funny, but have my doubts with the viability. If you want to play tank, then I wouldn't go with this build. Hit and run may work, a little. The best reason I think of is if you take the drunken brute barbarian archetype, and then the first two levels of ragechemist.

Well, our tank would be the straight Barbarian we have in our trio. So the ragechemist/barb could equip a longhammer and stand behind him, beating things angrily from the back alongside my cleric/barb. This is going to be a very strange group for PFS, I almost feel bad for whomever gets stuck at our table!

[Theodoxus]

Being the optimizer of my gaming group, I've been asked to do something similar.

(All dwarves)

So far, I have a ZAM - pretty basic build, no deviation. Poor fellow will be the slowest longest, but eventually the fastest. Probably bringing the most pain too.

Second is a barbarian 1/ranger x going full THF - Longhammer and Earth breaker (depending on if he needs range or not) Also pretty basic build.

Third is the cleric - being a Crusader for Abadar, grabbing a level of fighter (Unbreakable) for the bonus feats / heavy armor - then using Crusader to up his Tower Shield. He'll turtle it up while bringing the pain / flanking for the ranger.

Fourth is the armored hulk. Barbarian 1/Cleric 1 (Cayden, for travel this time)/Fighter 2 (Lore Warden) for Combat Expertise) Barbarian x - the great charging (80' at 8th level) full plate wearing uber tank. He's the drinking buddy to the Abadar's straightman.

Still need a skills guy and an arcanist - maybe the same guy... not sure.

The thing I love about this particular group of dwarves is they'll all have rock stepper, and the tank (maybe the cleric too) will have Earth channeling for the difficult terrain making. Excellent synergy.

[Blyte]

Dwarven Wizards make amazing item creationists with the favored class option they get. You will be able to give the group a stout economical advantage, cranking out all the party gear.

If you focus on support spells you can really make the melee heavy group shine.