living it large:::becoming a large sized character.

[Pandoras Folly]

So my character got made Large permanently. It was a bit of an off the cuff decision based on some bad roles by our caster in an unstable magic zone and a confirmed 20 by me.

What exactly changes now that I'm large, are there set you get this stuff rules or should I go with the flubbed animal growth spell's stated affects? I have a 10ft reach of course other than that im not sure.

[mattie_p]

It depends on how you grew. DM will have to tell you the specifics because it sounds this is not a specific published game effect.

What you might possibly see growing from Medium to Large (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases):

Str +8
Dex -2
Con +4
Natural Armor +2
AC (Size modifier) -1
Attack Bonus (Size modifier) -1
Normal reach increases to 10' from 5' (Reach weapons are doubled to 20')
Increased damage by all weapons (natural or manufactured) based on size

What you are likely to see:

AC (Size modifier) -1
Attack Bonus (Size modifier) -1
Normal reach increases to 10' from 5' (Reach weapons are doubled to 20')
Increased damage by all weapons (natural or manufactured) based on size

[Deaxsa]

By what process were you made large?

[Pandoras Folly]

Our wizard rolled a confirmed 1 on a concentration check trying to cast animal growth on the shapechanged ranger. dm rolled a d10 to see what direction it went and it hit me. I made a confirmd 20 on a save he allowed me We were in an "unstable magic area" when the spell went off. It happened at the end of session, but ee relized somethinv wasnt right after it didnt wear off.

[Deaxsa]

Our wizard rolled a confirmed 1 on a concentration check trying to cast animal growth on the shapechanged ranger. dm rolled a d10 to see what direction it went and it hit me. I made a confirmd 20 on a save he allowed me We were in an "unstable magic area" when the spell went off. It happened at the end of session, but ee relized somethinv wasnt right after it didnt wear off.

are you normal size in an antimagic field?

[Pandoras Folly]

We haven't checked that yet, but the wizard and sorcerer took 20s examining me afterwards and seem to think its a permanent change. No residual magical energies under pinning my current form.

The wizard plans the write a paper on it.

[mattie_p]

Yeah, could be almost anything then. I would assume that all the stated effects of animal growth take effect, but surely your DM will pipe up when you try to use the DR 10/magic and +4 bonus on saving throws from the spell. You really need to ask them.

[Pandoras Folly]

Yeah im pretty sure its, you're now a "large human" Withe whatever bonuses cone from just being large. Like +4 to grapple and trip, reach of 10 feat.

[Felandria]

It depends on how you grew. DM will have to tell you the specifics because it sounds this is not a specific published game effect.

What you might possibly see growing from Medium to Large (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases):

Str +8
Dex -2
Con +4
Natural Armor +2
AC (Size modifier) -1
Attack Bonus (Size modifier) -1
Normal reach increases to 10' from 5' (Reach weapons are doubled to 20')
Increased damage by all weapons (natural or manufactured) based on size

What you are likely to see:

AC (Size modifier) -1
Attack Bonus (Size modifier) -1
Normal reach increases to 10' from 5' (Reach weapons are doubled to 20')
Increased damage by all weapons (natural or manufactured) based on size

Finally, my wheelhouse.

My character wanted to be big, the backstory is she wanted to become queen of the elves and convince them to stop treating the halfbreeds so shabbily.

The reason she wanted this was because of a recurring dream she had since she hit puberty where she was a giant and ruled the elves benevolently.

As it turned out, the DM tied in the backstory to where the campaign was headed and decided since she never knew her father, he'd just make him Zeus.

Activating a portal to Olympus caused her to become Large size permanently, since after all, she was half Storm Giant.

The way we worked it was just give her the +4 to Str and Con and -2 to Dex and change her Sorcerer Bloodline to Stormborn. (We decided the Giant Bloodline was too powerful, if you've ever seen the basic ability, you'd know why.)

But have fun with it, playing a giant is fun as heck.

[Pandoras Folly]

Possum. Thanks felandria

[Metahuman1]

Out of curiosity, what class is your character?

[Telonius]

If it's anything melee, a Knockback Dungeoncrasher would be on the table now...

[HalfQuart]

It seems to me the least broken way of dealing with this is to just treat it as a permanent Enlarge Person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enlargePerson.htm):

This spell causes instant growth of a humanoid creature, doubling its height and multiplying its weight by 8. This increase changes the creature’s size category to the next larger one. The target gains a +2 size bonus to Strength, a -2 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a -1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size.

A humanoid creature whose size increases to Large has a space of 10 feet and a natural reach of 10 feet. This spell does not change the target’s speed.
There's a bit more in the spell description, but that's the most relevant part.

[Felandria]

It seems to me the least broken way of dealing with this is to just treat it as a permanent Enlarge Person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enlargePerson.htm):

This spell causes instant growth of a humanoid creature, doubling its height and multiplying its weight by 8. This increase changes the creature’s size category to the next larger one. The target gains a +2 size bonus to Strength, a -2 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a -1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size.

A humanoid creature whose size increases to Large has a space of 10 feet and a natural reach of 10 feet. This spell does not change the target’s speed.
There's a bit more in the spell description, but that's the most relevant part.

Personally, I find EP extremely weak.

At least Righteous Might gives you Natural Armor, which I feel is necessary.

Look, if something doubles in size, every part of them is bigger, which would logically mean their skin is now twice as thick.

[herrhauptmann]

Personally, I find EP extremely weak.

At least Righteous Might gives you Natural Armor, which I feel is necessary.

Look, if something doubles in size, every part of them is bigger, which would logically mean their skin is now twice as thick.
Yup, EP is pretty weak. It's a low level spell.
Skin is twice as thick, so natural armor doubles? From +0 to +0?

And with their doubled size, they get a cubed body weight (2^3=8), which makes them weaker since their strength doesn't rise that much. The bodybuilder that used to be able to benchpress his bodyweight, suddenly can't. Heck, he's using a lot of his strength just lifting his arms.


I think a permanent Animal Growth spell would be the better effect, not enlarge person.


It's weird how a failed concentration check caused anything beyond loss of a spell. Unless I'm forgetting something about Wild Magic zones...
Or allowed a spell to target something it normally couldn't. I assume the OP was a humanoid, not an animal at the time of the spell.
Also saves get crits and fumbles, but skill checks do not. And concentration is a skill check. Rolling a 1 doesn't matter if you've got sufficient modifiers to pass.
Why did the spell only target you? The spell says it allows multiple targets, it could conceivably gotten the whole party, dependent on level.

[Pandoras Folly]

2 monk/2 psywarrior/5 warmind. Using tashalatora to keep progressing my monknes, dm rulrd warmind could benefit from psywarriors tashlatora feat.

Also dm is using some homebrewed tables for the unstable magic zones, campaigns God o magic is indisposed so the rules have gotten wonky in some areas. Dm rolled a d10 to see which of the 10 directions it could have gone. Spell was complete, but due to failed skill role, lost its target and it targeted me.

[Telonius]

Expansion, Sweeping Strike, Stand Still, and Improved Trip. Consider the possibilities. :smallamused:

[Felandria]

Yup, EP is pretty weak. It's a low level spell.
Skin is twice as thick, so natural armor doubles? From +0 to +0?

And with their doubled size, they get a cubed body weight (2^3=8), which makes them weaker since their strength doesn't rise that much. The bodybuilder that used to be able to benchpress his bodyweight, suddenly can't. Heck, he's using a lot of his strength just lifting his arms.

This is why I firmly believe Enlarge Person needs to be changed, or at the very least make an Improved Enlarge Person.

As for the weight, they probably should bump the size multiplier up a little.

Actually, the more I think of it, we should all get together and homebrew some more realistic size modifiers.

[gr8artist]

Screw it. A belt of "permanent reduce person" should only cost 4000 or so. Be medium again.

[HalfQuart]

Personally, I find EP extremely weak.
Yeah, that's kind of the point. This is a result of some bizarre off-the-cuff thing that happened as a result of various critical failure rolls... I think the results should be minimized as much as possible. Do you really think something like this happening should result in +8 Strength permanently??

[Lonely Tylenol]

Screw it. A belt of "permanent reduce person" should only cost 4000 or so. Be medium again.

A Monk 2/PsyWar2/War Mind 5 does not want to be Medium again. If I'm guessing right, Expansion is probably both on his powers known list and the most used power known. :smallwink:

You will probably end up with permanent Enlarge Person/Expansion. See if, in its place, you can get Righteous Might (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/righteousMight.htm), even though it's not the spell cast and is not on the list of the caster who cast the spell cast. It's pretty much just better.

Then, get a dorje of Compression (ML 3) or something that lets you augment it to 10 mins/lvl, so that you can be Medium when you really need to be, and only then. Better yet, your net bonuses while under the effects of Righteous Might and Compression would be (assuming CL 9 and ML 1):

+2 STR
+2 DEX
+2 CON
+2 Natural armor
DR 3/evil

:smallwink:

[Urpriest]

Let your DM know that you need to know your character's stats in order to play your character, and promise that you won't metagame about the fact that your character doesn't know how powerful the spell made them.

Your DM will know whether this is permanent (nonmagical?) Animal Growth or some other effect. If it's as Animal Growth, you'll just get the benefits as the spell. Otherwise, your DM will tell you what the benefits are.

[Felandria]

Yeah, that's kind of the point. This is a result of some bizarre off-the-cuff thing that happened as a result of various critical failure rolls... I think the results should be minimized as much as possible. Do you really think something like this happening should result in +8 Strength permanently??

No, I don't, but I feel there should be at least some net gain.

Going by EP, your Str bonus is now up by one, but that's negated by the -1 penalty to attack rolls for being large, plus your AC is down by two.

Whereas Going by Righteous Might ups your Str bonus by two, and the Con increase helps counter the AC drop.

I think the +8 to Strength is too much, myself.

[Lonely Tylenol]

No, I don't, but I feel there should be at least some net gain.

Going by EP, your Str bonus is now up by one, but that's negated by the -1 penalty to attack rolls for being large, plus your AC is down by two.

Whereas Going by Righteous Might ups your Str bonus by two, and the Con increase helps counter the AC drop.

I think the +8 to Strength is too much, myself.

Remember the damage die size increase, damage bonus, and reach bonus from Enlarge Person. If you're measuring it only in numerical to-hit and AC bonuses and penalties, you're kind of missing the point.

[HalfQuart]

I'm currently playing a character that uses Expansion very frequently. While the actual effects are pretty mild, using it with a spiked chain, improved trip, etc. makes it pretty powerful. Not game breaking, but a significant power bump.

Of course being permanently large has drawbacks, too. He'll be doing a lot of squeezing, for example. And in my experience at least, when trying to decide who to attack, the 10' tall guy is frequently the default choice.

[Metahuman1]

Since the perminate magic effects making you big appear to not be leaving any residual magic, an argument could be made that Expansion stacks.

Think about being a freaking Gargantuan character. Take 3 lvls stoneblessed and get powerful build. Your now able to trip and Bull's Rush even the biggest of the Great Wyrms!

And that is awesome.

[Felandria]

Since the perminate magic effects making you big appear to not be leaving any residual magic, an argument could be made that Expansion stacks.

Think about being a freaking Gargantuan character. Take 3 lvls stoneblessed and get powerful build. Your now able to trip and Bull's Rush even the biggest of the Great Wyrms!

And that is awesome.

Oh, they stack.

You said the size isn't going away, that's who you are now.

Once I became Large, I could still use my spells to grow again.

Being a 25 foot tall sorceress is fun, just snatch a dude up and Shocking Grasp him.

[Pandoras Folly]

Yeap, now I hust have to find the best weapon I can trip and have reach with that doesnt requirr an exotic weapon prof

Also now....I can prc as a warhulk, my dm might be willing to rule away that thing at the beginning that makes you stupid, but +20 to stremgth over ten levels sounds like a Mexican restautants yearly supply of cheese.

Yeah im totally using double expansion, key word "inupchuck"


Hey what about a large crossbow that fires a quiver of arrows in a cone of something? Hmmmm

My dm basically asked me to figure out the best answer to what happens to my stats when im large, im very sure he wants those changes. That would seem to be thst size change chart for monsters. Also other well known features.

[mattie_p]

Guisarme is a reach weapon, allows trip, and does not require exotic weapon proficiency (only martial). Keep a flail or heavy flail around for when the foes get within your extended reach. All in PHB.

[Metahuman1]

Why does he need a fail? His Unarmed strike is treated as being the same as a 9th lvl large Monk. Guisarme is good though.


For your stats, either take the effects of animal growth and go "Ok, this shouldn't have affected a humanoid, but weird area doing weird things to spell make it make an exception" or Righteous Might and go "Ok, so weird area turned the spell into another spell mid flight and made it perminate and extra ordinary. "

Beyond after that, yeah, see if you can By pass the mental problems on Warhulk and then just go to town. Maybe Dip a level into Crusader or Warblade for some added badass tricks and pick up the open chakura: Hands and shape soulmeld: Spinx Claws feats as you go. Martial Maneuvers and Pounce on a build like this is sexy.

[mattie_p]

Why does he need a fail? His Unarmed strike is treated as being the same as a 9th lvl large Monk. Guisarme is good though.


Derp. Forgot his build was posted in the thread. Yeah, rock on, no flail needed.

Might want Pole Master feat from Secrets of Sarlona - it allows you to treat a polearm as a special monk weapon for flurry - but it is not required.

Then, if you like stunning fist (and if you are a monk/psywar, you like your wisdom score anyway), grab Stunning Master from Secrets of Sarlona, apply stunning fist attacks via weapon attack. Also optional.

[Metahuman1]

If you like stunning fist, in addition to the above suggestion, grab pain touch. They make an extra save and loose out on some extra action economy on a failed one, which isn't too shabby.

Knock Down from the SRD is also an excellent option if you have Improved Trip and Combat Reflexes. Stand Still also adds to that combo. You hit them on an AoO, do 10+ damage, roll the trip attempt, and if you succeed, knock them prone and get a follow up attack, and if you hit them there, use stand still to make them roll a save or have to STAY there, inside your reach, until there next turn. :smallamused:

[Pandoras Folly]

Actually I have improved natural weapons and that feat, cant remember name, that gives be an extra 4 levels of monk on my damage. Also warmind allows me to hit two hexes on each and every melee attack, so I can effectivly attack multihex creatures twice.

I actually never picked up stunning fist, at lower levels imp. Grapple is more effective. Also im using decisive strike and wallrunner ACFs of the monk.

Im looking at ToB as my next possible dip. elocator is another one im thinking aboit getting. Combine practise dummy of the master, elocators scorn earth, and battle jumper I could effectively always charge with just my free 10 foot step. Put jn some drunken master and more charging hijinks.

Edit meta that combo is pretty pimp, ill habe to see about freeing up some future feats for it. Spoke with dm and he is going to look at the animal growth as a likely base.

[Metahuman1]

Oh, its even better with Decisive strike. Remember, decisive strike applies to attacks of opportunity. And since you should be high enough level that you can use it on a standard action, I think you can combine it with standard action tome of battle strikes as well as attacks of opportunity.

And with Knock Down and Stand still, you can make your decisive strike+standard action tome of battle strike, hit, deal 10+ damage, make a trip attempt, and if you succeed, hit them again, and use stand still to make them stay down. until your next turn. And the same on attacks of opportunity.

Also, I suggest Robilars Gambit. They swing at you, you get to take an attack of opportunity out on them, which you can apply knock down, improved trip and stand still combo too.

You can probably skip pounce if you do this though, or just pick up Psionic Lions charge cause you should only need it once in a blue moon.

Yeah, a level of Warblade or Crusaider then 10 lvls or Warhulk would be awesome for you right now with those feats.


One other suggestion worth looking at, the mage slayer line from Complete Arcane is just made of win.

[Pandoras Folly]

Also snap kick and circle kick would allow two more attacks on any successful melee, one against the target and one against another target, eith a ten foot reach this grts easier. Hmm so hungry for feats...

So with combat expertise I get 4 AoO each round, add in snap and circle kicks I get 12 attacks, and with war mind I get 24 attack hexes over a 10foot reach, all under the damage of decisive strike...not invluding my usual attacks.

Edit
Also convinced my dm that warmind should have iajiutsu as a class skill since I picked up war mind training in Rokugan. So yeah im currently trying to max that out