[3.5] LA buyoff

[questionmark693]

Is it worth it if you won't finish the buyoff until epic levels?

[Cog]

Is it worth it if you won't finish the buyoff until epic levels?
Additional levels of actual classes are almost always worth it, yes.

On the other hand, if you've got so much LA that you can't buy it off before Epic, the template/race probably isn't worth it, even if buyoff is.

[Dusk Eclipse]

In general LA above +3 (and in any case that is a very big IF) isn't worth it, no even if you are going epic as higher level class features (particularly spells) will be stronger than any feature from your race.

The only other option where High LA might be worthwhile is ina one-shot game where not getting any more XP wouldn't matter (becoming a Lycanthrope or a Vampire is pretty good in these cases)

[questionmark693]

Guess I should clarify...I'm playing a campaign where the lowest available LA is +2, more commonly +3, so I took +5. Thanks though, I appreciate it :)

[Garagos]

Buying off the LA is always worth it. You'll always gain a class level even though your character level won't change. Experience is designed so that if you're grouped with PCs without a LA, you'll slowly start to catch back up to them.

[TuggyNE]

Guess I should clarify...I'm playing a campaign where the lowest available LA is +2, more commonly +3, so I took +5. Thanks though, I appreciate it :)

… And the DM didn't reduce all allowable LA by 2 points? :smallconfused:

[questionmark693]

What do you mean?

[Gildedragon]

If everyone is starting at LA >=2 then best shift all the LAs and CRs down by 2. So someone taking LA 2 is at effective LA 0, and someone with an LA of 4 is at effective LA 2 and are thus able to buy off their LA at levels 6 & 9, rather than at 12, 15, 18, and 21.

[TuggyNE]

If everyone is starting at LA >=2 then best shift all the LAs and CRs down by 2. So someone taking LA 2 is at effective LA 0, and someone with an LA of 4 is at effective LA 2 and are thus able to buy off their LA at levels 6 & 9, rather than at 12, 15, 18, and 21.

This. LA is primarily designed to ensure intra-party balance; if everyone has at least two points of LA, that's very nearly the same as if everyone has at least zero points of LA. (The difference being, of course, that you need to adjust CRs. But since those are highly unreliable anyway, that should be assumed.)

[questionmark693]

That sounds really nice...but when the subject got brought up before, he seemed pretty dead set that elves needed a ridiculous level adjustment. I guess that makes logical sense though, so it's worth bringing up.

[TaiLiu]

That sounds really nice...but when the subject got brought up before, he seemed pretty dead set that elves needed a ridiculous level adjustment. I guess that makes logical sense though, so it's worth bringing up.

:smallconfused:?!

[questionmark693]

It's a Lord of the Rings campaign setting, and it's supposed to reflect the fact that they live forever, thus they learn slower...super frustrating but I was kinda desperate to find a group that I could play in XP and...he created the setting himself, so I think he takes it kinda personally when it's criticized even though the setting is unfinished...super dumb XD

[Matticussama]

Has he given the Tolkien Elves any additional abilities beyond the standard 3.5 Elves? Because if he has only given them their agelessness without any additional things to reflect this (additional Int/skillpoints/feats for having lived that long, spell-like abilities to reflect unique Elven talents, etc) they won't be able to stand up to other LA races. Immortality means a lot from a roleplaying perspective, but very little mechanically compared to the stat/skill/feat/SLA abilities that other LA races get.

[questionmark693]

Here (http://www.earpg.com/documents/ea-d20-rpg/ea-d20-3.5-rpg/races-and-cultures) is a link to all the races and such. They have other abilities, though honestly not a +5 in my book. Noldor high elves is my race by the way, looking at lvl. 1 Beguiler/lvl. 3 Wizard/Ultimate Magus from there.

[Gildedragon]

The racial bonuses are odd.

[questionmark693]

My thoughts reading it are 'its kind of ridiculous that they ALL have a level adjustment'.

[Matticussama]

It definitely seems very AD&D/2nd Edition to me in the general layout and narrative, which is odd since it is adapted for 3.5. It is quite ridiculous that they all have level adjustment. I also agree that, while the Noldor get some very nice bonuses, they are not worth a +5 LA.

If the other players have a similar LA range then I suppose it won't matter too much. However, if one player is going +1LA or +2 while you are going +5LA, it will definitely cause some balance problems.

[questionmark693]

Most people have a +2 or +3 LA, so it's a definite issue. We play tomorrow, so I'll bring it up...we're still in the character creation phase anyways, so nothing's set in stone yet.

[Matticussama]

I noticed some of the other Elves in the Guide had lower LA. If your DM isn't willing to budge, you might want to consider playing one of them instead. It doesn't have the same narrative impact, of course - the Noldor are certainly the most interesting, with Galadriel being my favorite - but the lower LA elves would certainly be more playable.

Assuming your DM is heavily into the narrative, that might actually be a good way to persuade him as well. Bring up the mechanical disadvantage, but also the story impact; you really want to play one of the Noldor and feel that it could help advance the story, but feel that the LA will make it impossible to truly achieve the usefulness that such a character should have.