StP Erudite explanation

[Invader]

Can someone very simply explain how the StP Erudite works for me.

[Gazzien]

Can someone very simply explain how the StP Erudite works for me.
Erudites learn spells for their "spells known" by observing and paying XP.
StP Erudites do the same thing, but can do it to spells as well.

[Larkas]

Can someone very simply explain how the StP Erudite works for me.

StP Erudite is a kind of Psion that can learn spells in addition to powers. :smallwink:

[Feralventas]

It's a wizard that memorizes its entire spell books, has the option to add both spells and powers to that internalized spell book, and prepares its powers in advance. It can learn and manifest any power and cast any spell in the books provided it's available to be purchased and learned from a scroll or power stone.

It's right up there with the Wizard, Cleric, and Druid in terms of in-game power.

STP converts spells to powers of equal power/spell level. The effective caster level effect is dependent on the number of power points you spend to manifest a converted spell, rather than your raw manifester level.

[Psyren]

Erudites learn spells for their "spells known" by observing and paying XP.
StP Erudites do the same thing, but can do it to spells as well.

Two corrections:

1) They don't learn by observing (Sha'ir do that.) Rather, they must make contact with a spellcaster's mind, similar to addressing a power stone. They can arguably learn spells from scrolls as well, since transparency-wise they are equivalent to power stones.

2) They get two free powers per level from the general psion/wilder list, similar to wizards. So these powers don't have to be paid for with XP.

[Gazzien]

Two corrections:

1) They don't learn by observing (Sha'ir do that.) Rather, they must make contact with a spellcaster's mind, similar to addressing a power stone. They can arguably learn spells from scrolls as well, since transparency-wise they are equivalent to power stones.

2) They get two free powers per level from the general psion/wilder list, similar to wizards. So these powers don't have to be paid for with XP.
Eep! My mistake. I haven't read CPsi in a while (can't find my copy) and was working off of memory (and mine is admittedly faulty).

[Invader]

Ok, so the 2 free powers to get each level have to be from the psion/wilder list and they're also able to "purchase" any level appropriate power or spell (20x spell/power level)?

Everything else plays the same as a regular psion mechanically?

I'm guessing the largest drawback to the class is the availability at which you can learn actual spells dependant on how much of a strickler your DM is in letting you find new ones.

[Gavinfoxx]

Get any arcanist unconscious, learn all the spells in their mind! =D

[Psyren]

Ok, so the 2 free powers to get each level have to be from the psion/wilder list and they're also able to "purchase" any level appropriate power or spell (20x spell/power level)?

One level below their maximum; kind of like Expanded Knowledge. So an Erudite 5 could not learn Fireball, but an Erudite 7 could.



Everything else plays the same as a regular psion mechanically?

Almost! The other big thing to keep in mind is unique powers per day. This is what keeps them from simply amassing a massive list and being able to cast spontaneously from the whole thing.

In a nutshell - as an erudite manifests powers, they get "locked" in his mind. The number of powers he can have "locked" each day is limited; once he hits that limit, he can only manifest the locked powers no matter how many other powers he knows. In short, they get less and less versatile for every power they manifest.

What this limit actually is is a point of contention due to some poor editing by WotC, but what else is new?



I'm guessing the largest drawback to the class is the availability at which you can learn actual spells dependant on how much of a strickler your DM is in letting you find new ones.

Well, even if your DM lets you find no spells at all, they still learn 40 psionic powers over the course of their career, and can pick up discipline powers via Expanded Knowledge. So that's plenty. Even better - they can learn discipline powers with Expanded Knowledge, encode them into stones, use Psychic Reformation to swap the feat-powers out, then relearn them from the stones they just created - all without DM assistance.

[Larkas]

That, or get a Wizard cohort, buy him scrolls and peruse his mind after he learns the spell. Better yet, get a Sha'ir cohort. Or a Beholder Mage/ Ur-Priest/ Mystic Theurge cohort. Just remember: you can only learn spells from a level up to one lower than the level of the general Psion powers you could learn.

On a side note: if I ever make an Illithid Psion BBEG, he will definitely be an Erudite. :smallamused:

[Gavinfoxx]

The actual limit of the number of 'locked' powers really depends on which version of the Erudite you are reading...

-The Complete Psionic gives the Erudite unique powers per day equal to 1+1/2 class level (rounded down) per level, This means a level 20 Erudite can manifest 99 unique powers a day, 11 per power level.

-A common claim of RAI is that the Erudite should have 1+1/2 class level unique powers per day, no matter the level.

-The Dragon Magazine version has this, where the first level you can manifest a new level power you can manifest one a day, the next two level you can manifest three a day, the next three you can manifest 3 a day and every level after that you can manifest 4 a day. (Exceptions being 8th level powers where you skip one level of manifesting only 2 a day and 9th level powers where every level from 17th to 20th increase the number you can manifest daily by one.)

-A common houserule has it as:
1 per level 1-10, 1/2 level 11-20. leaves 15 at 20, and add an extra +1 at 1.

[Psyren]

On a side note: if I ever make an Illithid Psion BBEG, he will definitely be an Erudite. :smallamused:

Do Illithid Savant; they are Erudites on steroids :smallbiggrin:

"Why yes, I did just learn every ToB maneuver from raiding that monastery just now. And these mysteries are very nice too. What did you call this blue stuff? Incarnum? Tasty."

[Invader]

Is there a list of unique powers that an Erudite can manifest or is that what the spells they learn considered.

Regardless you still have to have the pp available to use any of the powers or spells you know right?

[Larkas]

Do Illithid Savant; they are Erudites on steroids :smallbiggrin:

"Why yes, I did just learn every ToB maneuver from raiding that monastery just now. And these mysteries are very nice too. What did you call this blue stuff? Incarnum? Tasty."

Oh! True that, totally forgot about Illithid Savant! :smallbiggrin:

[Psyren]

Is there a list of unique powers that an Erudite can manifest or is that what the spells they learn considered.

StP Erudites can learn every psion/wilder general power (up to 9th level), as well as every sorcerer/wizard spell and every discipline-only psion power (up to 8th level.)



Regardless you still have to have the pp available to use any of the powers or spells you know right?

Yes. The base cost formula is (spell level * 2) - 1. Damaging powers must be augmented to do more damage, whereas most nondamaging powers scale automatically; this is similar to the Spell Points system in the SRD.

[Invader]

Excellent, thanks for the help everyone!

[Gavinfoxx]

StP Erudites can learn every psion/wilder general power (up to 9th level), as well as every sorcerer/wizard spell and every discipline-only psion power (up to 8th level.)

Close.. but it is any ARCANE SPELL up to 8th level. Not just Sorcerer/Wizard... A level 20 Erudite who hasn't cast a power that 24 hour period, who knows EVERY arcane spell up to level 8, EVERY Psion/Wilder general power, and EVERY Discipline-only psion power up to 8th... can pick and choose from any of those when he starts manifesting!

[Psyren]

It is indeed "arcane," thanks for the correction.

[Invader]

Close.. but it is any ARCANE SPELL up to 8th level. Not just Sorcerer/Wizard... A level 20 Erudite who hasn't cast a power that 24 hour period, who knows EVERY arcane spell up to level 8, EVERY Psion/Wilder general power, and EVERY Discipline-only psion power up to 8th... can pick and choose from any of those when he starts manifesting!

Ooh, that was actually another question I had. Let's just assume for the sake of easy numbers that an Erudite can manifest 10 powers a day and knows 100. Does he have to prepare the powers he thinks he's going to use our can he just pick and choose any 10 wants to use at any time?

Also the total number of powers you can manifest counts towards both the general powers and the special powers right? It's not something like you can manifest 10 general powers and 3 special powers. Or is it still just you can manifest whatever you have the pp for?

[Psyren]

Ooh, that was actually another question I had. Let's just assume for the sake of easy numbers that an Erudite can manifest 10 powers a day and knows 100. Does he have to prepare the powers he thinks he's going to use our can he just pick and choose any 10 wants to use at any time?

You don't "prepare" anything ahead of time, no :smallsmile: Basically, until you actually start manifesting, you have limitless potential. Effectively, you are choosing to prepare your "spells" as you cast them. They are literally Schrodinger's Wizard.

Say you know 100 powers and you have 3 UPD. At the start of the day, you can manifest any of the 100 powers you know. If you manifest one, you drop down to 2 UPD. Now you can manifest that first power as much as you want, or any of the other 99 that you know. Manifest another, and you're down to 1 UPD. You can manifest A and B as much as you want, or you can pick a third (and final) power from among the 98 that are left. Once you manifest that third power, however, you are locked into manifesting A, B or C for the rest of the day; the other 97 are inaccessible until you rest for the night.



Also the total number of powers you can manifest counts towards both the general powers and the special powers right? It's not something like you can manifest 10 general powers and 3 special powers. Or is it still just you can manifest whatever you have the pp for?

You have one set of UPD that applies to all powers you manifest regardless of how you learned them. (This includes Expanded Knowledge.)

[Invader]

Ok I think I have a pretty good handle on things now, thanks once again!

[NotScaryBats]

Quick question: if I learned Suggestion, could I do it as a bard (lvl 2), or must it be as a wizard (lvl 3)?

[Psyren]

Quick question: if I learned Suggestion, could I do it as a bard (lvl 2), or must it be as a wizard (lvl 3)?

Whichever one you learned it from.

[Getsugaru]

StP Erudites can learn every psion/wilder general power (up to 9th level), as well as every sorcerer/wizard spell and every discipline-only psion power (up to 8th level.)Strange, I distinctly remember there being a way to learn Psychic Warrior powers too...

Quick question: if I learned Suggestion, could I do it as a bard (lvl 2), or must it be as a wizard (lvl 3)?

As Psyren said, it depends on the source. I like Artificer/Chameleons, personally, as Chameleons get every Arcane spell up to 6th level as castable, and can use their floating bonus feat to get any arcane spell they need at the time for writing into their spellbook. And when combined with an Artificer, who can craft pretty much every spell as a scroll of either arcane or divine (AFB, could be wrong on this), they suddenly get every arcane spell in the game at the lowest level possible, and possibly can make some divine spells arcane as well (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong; I'm AFB). :smallamused: