[PF] Crowd Control Fighter

[Valethas]

Hi, first time posting here. I'm a long time lurker of both the role-playing and comic forums. I was hoping to find some help building a fighter for a campaign that's beginning in a couple weeks. I've built characters before but I'm new to being the main 'tank' or 'meat-shield.' Since table-top doesn't work with any real sort of aggro basis, I want to make my fighter as useful to the party as possible.

My party is 5 or 6 people, including myself. The campaign is entitled "Wicked Ways" or something along those lines, advertised as an "evil" or at least morally ambivalent campaign, from 1-20.

The party consists of:
Elf Ranger TWF focused
Gnome Wizard (I suspect
Vishkanyas Rogue
Human Cleric
Unknown (likely a ranged character that will go Assassin)
... and myself.

The idea I had was a Half-Orc (flavor reasons) Sword-and-Board fighter but I've run into a lot more questions than any firm character ideas. I ran into the TWF build where the shield becomes a weapon but a lot of the topics I've read on the net leave me confused. Is the shield your main hand or off hand, and is it really worth the intense dex mod investment?

The other idea I had was using a flail and trying to trip opponents, as well as taking feats for my shield to use bullrush, for maximum crowd control possibilities. I don't feel like I would be doing a great deal of damage with this particular build.

I was hoping that some of you more knowledgeable players might be able to help me choose or formulate a build that would be beneficial to my party. I should say that some of the players in this adventure tend to strike out on their own or not really think ahead about their actions, which is part of why I'm leaning towards a crowd-control oriented fighter...best to be prepared for bad ideas.

So are there any suggestions for what I might should do or how I might build, or ideas I might not have even thought of?

[Certified]

Unless set on a sword and shield build, the general consensus seems to that you benefit more from a Two-Handed Weapon. When looking at a shield focused build, I've seen the idea of a character using two shields instead of a standard weapon to avoid the high Feat requirements for both shield and weapon of choice. Although, this leads to a very funny looking character.

The Shielded Fighter from the Advanced Player Guide offers some interesting options for a sword and board character. However, these bonuses seem to work equally well for a two shield build. There is also the Tower Shield Specialist from Ultimate combat. This archetype seems to offer some interesting options as well for defense.

Lastly, for more a more tactical take on things, have a look at the Cad and Tactician, also from Ultimate Combat. While they do not allow for "drawing agro" as it were the Cad has a host of fun tricks that can be incorporated into one's attack, while the Tactician allows the Fighter to provide team support and encourages the use of Teamwork Feats. This may work well if the last player is considering an Inquisitor.

[StreamOfTheSky]

It's very difficult to do crowd control in PF as a Fighter. You need to wait for Pin Down and Dazing Assault feats, which require levels 11 and 12, respectively, to actually do lockdown adequately.

I would suggest checking out the Synthesist Summoner. It will allow you to get the size and strength to get very good CMB and use maneuvers on big foes. It will also allow you to get prodigious reach. Best of all, you can get evolutions for grab, pull, and/or trip in order to get free combat maneuver checks on each attack you make to grapple enemies, pull them closer to you, and knock them prone. Note that the first two of these maneuvers are normally standard actions. Even tripping and doing damage with a single attack is still a nice boon, too.

IMO, Synth Summoner is the best "martial lockdown" you can get at low levels in PF. And really, at all levels...

[Ravens_cry]

Combat Patrol (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/combat-patrol-combat) will help make the Step Up line even better, as will having a friendly caster cast Enlarge Person on you. Pin Down combined with the above could also be very nasty, though it's fairly late game. Trip isn't what it used to be, but it's still a pretty good way to eat away at the action economy. Disruptive and Spell breaker are also very useful for making casters learn to hate you.

[Certified]

Combat Patrol (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/combat-patrol-combat) will help make the Step Up line even better, as will having a friendly caster cast Enlarge Person on you. Pin Down combined with the above could also be very nasty, though it's fairly late game. Trip isn't what it used to be, but it's still a pretty good way to eat away at the action economy. Disruptive and Spell breaker are also very useful for making casters learn to hate you.

With Combat Patrol are you still limed by Dexterity in the number of Attacks of Opportunity you make?

[avr]

'Fighter' and useful to the party aren't really compatible IMO. Even if you succeed in your goal of blocking the enemies from getting to the squishier members of the party without yourself getting squished, the other party members are going to have to carry a lot of your weight. In social, stealth, or any situation which requires magic, your class will contribute nothing. You'll use up a lot of healing from the cleric which in an evil campaign, your character may have to pay for directly.

OK, that said; shield bashing is a subset of TWF, and while fighters get the feats to do it they don't get the bonus damage to make it impressive. They could use shield slam to bullrush but bullrush is only situationally useful IME. If you're willing to do a lot of level dips in other classes, PF does provide a bunch of sources of bonus damage which you may be able to stack (Ranger/guide archetype 1, Rogue 1, Barbarian, maybe Aegis if psionic material is allowed, I'm sure there are others). Alternately, Ranger might be a better base class, the weapon and shield combat style for rangers gives them some useful feats early.

Oh, shield bashing works best with a heavy shield; the way TWF works means that you're encouraged to use a light weapon in your other hand.

Tripping works as a tactic and fighters can be pretty good at it. You deal damage via AoO's, which mean you still want some Dexterity and the combat Reflexes feat. If you want to dump Dexterity be a Barbarian and charge everything.

[Ravens_cry]

With Combat Patrol are you still limed by Dexterity in the number of Attacks of Opportunity you make?

*reads again* Looks like it to me.

[Valethas]

Thank you all for your replies!

I like some of the ideas but I'm not sure all of them will work. The GM seemed hesitant to let the rogue be a Vishkanya so I don't know if I will be able to play as a Synthesist Summoner. It sounds intriguing and I like what I have read so far about it but I'm not sure I'm going to get the go ahead for it. I haven't heard yea or nay on it so far though.

I'll have to look at some of the things in the Advanced Player's Guide. I don't own it but I think there is one at the local store. I really prefer to have the book in my hands when reading about new classes and the like - I feel like I retain it better for some reason. Maybe it's just old fashioned preference on my part.

I put a lot of thought into the ranger build but I think I would be stepping on the other ranger's toes by doing that. I'm not dead set on Fighter - Barbarian and Paladin seem just as powerful, although the latter would have to be an anti-Paladin or something - but it was the first thing I thought of since our group lacks a damage-sponge.

Feat-wise and use-wise, is a polearm fighter (with reach, trip, etc.) more useful and/or more fun to play than the sword and board style?

[Blyte]

I think a good CC fighter would be a fighter(brawler) or monk(sohei)/fighter(brawler)

dip one level of sohei for the bonus init, never suprised, improved unarmed strike, and FoB.

uses scorpion style, so when you break sticky contact with a foe, to engage a more pressing threat, he limps off.

wield a long spear simply to threaten more squares and make enemies pay for trying to circumnavigate your grasp, but close base to base to beat down, lock down, or scorpion sting everything you can.

with the dueling gloves, and new light armor enchant, and brawler close weapon bonuses, you won't just be tanking, you will also be ripping the enemies a new one.

other feats you are like to want are dragon style I & II, and of course the lock down feats and disruptive.

[avr]

A slightly more martial/less magical character than the synthesist summoner but which uses similar mechanics is the Aegis (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/aegis) psionic class. It works like you're playing a guy with a suit of power armor rather than a monster with too many limbs (as the synthesist tends to.)

You could easily make such a character a tripper with a polearm.

The problem with a fighter isn't an inability to trip people, it's an inability to do anything outside whatever niche they're built for. They get very repetitive in combat IME too, though Blyte's idea below might mitigate that a bit. I think it'd take a while even for a fighter to collect all the feats necessary to fill the role as suggested though.