Building a Character (Dex/Cha) - Someone near tier 1

[Nullmancer]

I've been placed with a challenge. My DM has had me roll a set of stats and where they land, they are stuck.

Str: 9
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Int: 9
Wis: 10
Cha: 18

My thoughts with this are Favored Soul, since I prefer to not play someone with a d4 for health and only 13 AC, base, when that said individual could be caught off guard at any point in the game. With that being said, here is what I wish to discuss:

How do I make my character a battle controller/buffer, while utilizing the Dexterity?

Would it be better to pick a god that focuses on a light weapon (for two-weapon fighting), or on a ranged weapon (for archery)?

I prefer lawful gods. The thing is, this area of deitism is...lacking...as far as weapon choices go. What ones would you prefer if you were in my seat?

[LTwerewolf]

Cloistered cleric is pretty much better in every way, but if you're set on favored soul you can choose Helm from forgotten realms. He's got the bastard sword as his favored weapon and he's lawful neutral.

[Urpriest]

You probably won't be able to make this character a battlefield controller as a Favored Soul, since you don't have much Wis, and while not all BFC offers saves, enough of it does that it would be a substantial handicap.

[Nullmancer]

Cloistered Cleric runs off of Wisdom, not Charisma, so that wouldn't work. And I recognize that.

With battlefield caster out the window, what would you suggest? Would it be better to go Sorcerer with what I have, or is it even remotely possible that Favored Soul could be optimized with these stats?

[LTwerewolf]

lost traditions can turn a cleric into a cha caster, but with those stats you would be better off as another type of caster over favored soul. Being dependent on two casting stats and having one rather low means you're not going to have a good time.

It is also recommended to put your second highest stat into con, because it's always helpful.

[Psyren]

Be a super-paladin archer. FS 7/Dragonslayer 1/Sacred Exorcist 1/PrC Paladin 2/Fist of Raziel 9 with Ranged Auto-Confirming Chaining Smites and lots of buffs (up to 9th-level.)

[Namfuak]

It is also recommended to put your second highest stat into con, because it's always helpful.

He had to roll in order.

It seems to me that if you want to play a dex-based damage dealer, you could do a bardsader (Bard 4/Crusader 16). Use Weapon Finesse and a rapier, and use Song of the White Raven to stack your levels. If you are really worried about dying, you should invest at first in some Devoted Spirit maneuvers and an amulet of health to try to shore up that Con.

[TaiLiu]

It is also recommended to put your second highest stat into con, because it's always helpful.

Unfortunately, he cannot:

My DM has had me roll a set of stats and where they land, they are stuck.

[LTwerewolf]

I did miss that part. That blows. In that case I'd second bardsader, or bard with a dip in beguiler.

[Nullmancer]

I've seen gish builds in the group so much, I wish I could remove evocation all together. In fact, the person who got me playing has a favorite spell, or rather, a serious of them. It goes a little like this.

Fireball
Meteor Swarm
Acid Fog
Black Tentacles + Any of the above

See where I'm going with this? If I have to go sorcerer, I'm fine. I'll work with that. But simply answer this. What class would be best for casting using the above stats?

[Namfuak]

I've seen gish builds in the group so much, I wish I could remove evocation all together. In fact, the person who got me playing has a favorite spell, or rather, a serious of them. It goes a little like this.

Fireball
Meteor Swarm
Acid Fog
Black Tentacles + Any of the above

See where I'm going with this? If I have to go sorcerer, I'm fine. I'll work with that. But simply answer this. What class would be best for casting using the above stats?

Sorcerer, Sha'ir, Bard, and Warmage are the casters I can think of that use Charisma. Favored Soul could work if you focus on buffing, but it's obviously supposed to be a divine gish so I doubt you'd want to play it.

[Norin]

How about a Dread Necro?

Your stat set seems to be decent for that. Grab a longbow with your martial wep choise and make good use of your dex.

Pro's in relation to OP - Bigger HD, some DR, Cha casting, spontaenous casting.

[Nullmancer]

Dread Necromancer would be AMAZING....but...this is what my group consists of:

Most likely a druid who doesn't know how to play a druid, but likes being a fluffy bunny half the time
A rogue
A wizard with 13 int
A healer (the class)
A Paladin

and then me. Alignment does matter in this campaign, and as such, if I played a necromancer, my character would die within the first session, most likely from a boot (the paladin's) caving in my pc's skull.

[Norin]

Dread Necromancer would be AMAZING....but...this is what my group consists of:

Most likely a druid who doesn't know how to play a druid, but likes being a fluffy bunny half the time
A rogue
A wizard with 13 int
A healer (the class)
A Paladin

and then me. Alignment does matter in this campaign, and as such, if I played a necromancer, my character would die within the first session, most likely from a boot (the paladin's) caving in my pc's skull.

Ah, right. DN does not really fit in with a core Paladin and Healer.

I just now noticed you really did not ask for class suggestions either. *oops* :smallbiggrin:

[Nullmancer]

Nonono, this is good. Suggestions are wonderful. I know everything on being a wizard, druid, and cleric. Fighters are...well...crappy. Paladins are worse because I'm pinholed into an alignment that my group takes advantage of, all the while my capabilities are out the window because I'm basically a fighter...without feats. And everything in between is...new to me. So, finding a class that works off of Dexterity and Charisma, that is similar in power to tier 1 classes is hard to do.

Basically, suggestions are more than welcome. Don't worry about that.

[Pilo]

You may try Shugenja. They have a d6 for hp, 4 skill points per level and a good spell list.
I think you should pick the water element because you want air to control and earth to buff. Furthermore, water has both.

Furthermore, they don't cast on Cha and Wis as does the favored soul.

As you only have 9 in strengh I think you will pick the crossbow.

[Savith9]

Nonono, this is good. Suggestions are wonderful. I know everything on being a wizard, druid, and cleric. Fighters are...well...crappy. Paladins are worse because I'm pinholed into an alignment that my group takes advantage of, all the while my capabilities are out the window because I'm basically a fighter...without feats. And everything in between is...new to me. So, finding a class that works off of Dexterity and Charisma, that is similar in power to tier 1 classes is hard to do.

Basically, suggestions are more than welcome. Don't worry about that.

Try Warlock granted they dont have the best HD but their spells or (invocations) are unlimited in number of uses per day but your super limited on the number you gain yet still being able to cast buffs ect onyourself is worth while and the class runs off cha.

[LTwerewolf]

Yeah, warlock is a class that you can play if you get all 6's. Higher dex, con, and cha help, but aren't really required.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Actually a Glaivelock build could be done with those stats, you are doing touch attack so having low strength doesn't matter, your high dex can fuel AoO and your normal eldritch blast for the times you can't glaive people, the high cha in a warlock means essences that offer saves are on the table and you can force a lot of them with a glaive..

[Ifni]

I would honestly go sorcerer - I played a very effective sorcerer from L1-16 with similar starting stats (Str 8 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 8 Cha 16). She mostly relied on the air barrier for defense (plus riding dog ablative armor at the lowest levels), although you could certainly focus more on defense if you wanted to. Her spells focused on mobility, battlefield control and debuffing, with a side of buffing; at low-mid-levels in particular she liked using (no-save) ranged touch attacks, hence the high Dex. (The books available to her increased over the course of the campaign, but at low levels she was restricted to Core-only.)

What level are you starting at, and to what degree do you want to be more powerful than the rest of your group? Are the players of the rogue and paladin likely to optimize at all?

[Xenogears]

You could build a pretty solid Diplomancer with some stealth on the side with that. Or do something like Bard with a one lvl dip in Marshal for cha to cha checks or cha to dex checks (for initiative mostly) and go into Sublime Chord at lvl 10. Full spellcasting, perfect party face, and if you go exalted and get Words of Creation you can seriously optimize your Inspire Courage for great buffing too.

[nedz]

Sorcerer is the power option, just don't get hit.

Dex and Cha work for Spellthief.

Maybe Spellthief/Sorcerer utilising Master Spellthief (CSco)

Spellthief 1 / Sorcerer 4 / Unseen Seer 10
Taking Master Spellthief at 6th

[Synovia]

Ah, right. DN does not really fit in with a core Paladin and Healer.

I just now noticed you really did not ask for class suggestions either. *oops* :smallbiggrin:

A dread necro doesn't need to be eeeeviiiilll. I play one thats lawful neutral in a game with two paladins (one is a paladin of freedom though, so he doesn't count). Works fine

[LTwerewolf]

A dread necro doesn't need to be eeeeviiiilll. I play one thats lawful neutral in a game with two paladins (one is a paladin of freedom though, so he doesn't count). Works fine

It depends on how the group views it. For example our group views undead as inherently evil, and creating them is itself an evil act. Paladins aren't going to be happy with that.

[Phelix-Mu]

Well, I think tier 1 might be hard to reach.

Whenever I hear someone class fishing for options with weird stats, my brain has recently been answering "have you checked out Illumians?"

I'm not sure this particular set of rolls works with any of the illumian caster tricks, but it might be worth looking at. There are certainly some weird synergies that come to light, and I'm sure others on the forum or google-fu can reveal the broad strokes of what is possible with the race.

Let's see. I will say warlock is pretty viable. Near tier 1? Not so much.

You might look at binder. The only stat really necessary for that, AFAIK, is Cha, and it's flexible enough that you should be able to do stuff until you are high enough level to multiclass or something toward a class that wouldn't be great at first level. I am unclear if the obvious Anima Mage move would be open to a binder/sorcerer, but that PrC can add a good boost in power. I hear that the use of the web-based vestiges released by WotC gave binders a considerable power boost, as well. You'd want to ask the DM if that stuff was kosher, as I hear it ranks with some dragon magazine stuff for altering game balance. I believe the suspect vestige was "Zceryll," if memory serves, and the emphasis is on summoning, which is kind of like battlefield control.

[Fouredged Sword]

Sha'ir 20 works great. Be a strong heart halfling and pick up planer touchstone for the granted power of the air domain to get a medium air elemental or two to act as a mount with Fly 100 ft. (perfect) and no need to sleep or eat. Stash the second one in your bag of holding.

It is great charisma focused casting and will feel a lot like a sorcerer, but you can send your minion after any spell off the sorc/wiz list without needing a PRC. You can still use rope trick, you just have to wait a few min for the gen to get it.

[Deadline]

Bard 10/Sublime Chord 10

You get better HD than the sorcerer, similar spellcasting ability, bardic music to help your party, and access to pretty much all the battlefield control spells you could want. The downside is that you don't get much in the way of BFC spells until Sublime Chord, which you can't take your first level of until you hit level 11.

If spellcasting is less important, Warlock also gets the delicious Chilling tentacles (at 11th level), and would work great with your stats. Dragonfire Adept may also work. I'm farily certain the awful dragon shaman would be fine with your stats (and has D12's for HD), but then you'd be playing a dragon shaman.

Otherwise you are "stuck" with Sorcerer, which is more powerful and closer to Tier 1 than anything else you'll be able to get.

Edit: Forgot about Sha'ir.

[Person_Man]

I would play a Binder. Start at level 1 with Leraje vestige for Precise Shot and Ricochet. At level 3 move over to Paimon for Dance of Death, Whirlwind Attack, and a Dex buff. Maybe swap over to Kas at level 5 for Blinding criticals and the ability to crit Undead. And then once you hit 8th-10ish level you can start playing as a "caster" oriented Binder, using Desharis and Zceryll to be the world's greatest Summoner, and/or using your Cha for the various Save or Lose oriented vestige abilities.

[Vaz]

Dex/Cha = Walker in the Waste.

Favoured Soul 6/Swordsage 2/Crusader 2/WitW 10.

At 20, you'll be ECL 25 (according to the template's LA), but you'll have Maneuvres as a SS 11 and Crusader 11, (not brilliant I know), with Spellcasting as a 14th level Favoured Soul (so you're not too broken - but 7ths are still fairly smexy).

You need to qualify for Thirst/Sand Domains (I like Sand Domain, for a WitW; you become Undead, and can cast Black Sand to heal you, and debuff enemies. With Ebon Eyes cast as well, this just debuffs you.

Taking Deities Favor gives any one ally (including yourself) bonus Temporary Hit Points (3x Spell Level, lasts spell duration). This helps offset average Con, but also means you lose nothing when you go Undead (and you get Charisma*HD to HP at Dry Lich, rather than Con*HD).

When you get the ability to, Spellstitch yourself for even more low level fun (seriously, with Charisma around 34, you're looking at 5 7th level spells a day, but also 13 or more 1st level spells a day. Make sure you're wearing your best Periapt of Wisdom (or any other form of getting your Wisdom up as sky-f'ing-high as possible) and aim for 19 Wisdom at the time so you can get as a Spell Like ability, +4 1sts, +4 2nds, +2 3rds, +2 4ths, +2 5ths, +1 6th.

[Jigokuro]

If you want to be tier 1 with high CHA just be a Sha'ir. It is that simple. There are other suggestions here that are fun and doable, but just not going to be tier 1. ACFs and a couple bonus feats aside a Sha'ir is every bit as powerful as an effin WIZARD but has ever aspect of his casting based only on CHA. Bonus: you're automatically the party face, since they are required to have max diplomacy to funtion. Dex/Con are their secondary stats, so you're perfect.

Is your race chosen? I have some recommendations there too if it is open.

[Nullmancer]

That Binder and WitW tid bit are awesome! I'll have to look into those further. Thank you guys for your help in this matter. I really appreciate it. :)